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Is Claude Makalele the best " water carrier" in football?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by la gran siete, May 1, 2005.

  1. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    "Porteur d'eau" that is.If it werent for Didier Deschamps would surely have had many more caps playing for France.Retired from internationla football far too soon in fact, presumably because he didnt get enough recognotion.

    The spine of a "Premier league" team:

    Cech

    Terry

    Makalele


    Lampard

    Henry

    The rest:


    Neville Carvalho Cole



    Wright -Philips Roben




    Rooney


    Replacements Robinson, Gallas, Ferdinand, Pires , Gerard, Van Nisteleroy,Shearer,
     
  2. mason

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    Is Claude Makalele over rated.... in a word.....Yes!
     
  3. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    NEVER!

    the reason I used the quote is because it was the one used by Eric Cantona to describe Didier Deschamps rather dismissively. Didier was the fulcrum of a very successful French side. A midfield player who played a " holding " defensive role linking defense with attack supporting players around him and switching line of attack as well. More often than not he would play a simple ball rather than a penetrating long pass.Nicky Butt is our best exponent of that craft and Makalele is the best in our league. His pass to Lampard for the second goal was superb.
     
  4. Marc

    Marc
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    i've not seen too much of makalele but until someone actually fights against chelsea it's hard to judge whether he can hack the premiership. at the moment most teams are acting like rabbits in headlights as soon as the ref blows for kick off, so they get wins where they perhaps wouldn't in normal circumstances.

    and in the ideal team, you missed out downing, one of the top 4 midfielders in the premier league this season. (the best 4 are wright phillips, ljungberg, lampard, downing)
     
  5. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Not a Boruogh supporter by any chance are you? He is good but J Cole is better
     
  6. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Agreed 100%
     
  7. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    ahahah thats the biggest load of BS ive seen in a long time. ashley cole gets minced and cannot defend. not even gonna talk about neville and ahaha that guy for £26 mill or what ever they paid is the worst yes worst defender for that sort of money ever. i wouldnt even pay £3mill for him :rotfl: at least you gave me a laugh. didi hamann plays same role as Makelele as dosnt get the recognition he deserves
     
  8. Marc

    Marc
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    nope, Man Utd, but i am in a fantasy football league and those are the top 4 scoring midfielders.. and even better, i have all 4 of them :D
     
  9. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
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    Actually, I reckon it is Adam Sandler.....
     
  10. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    If he cannot defend why is he described as one of the worlds best left backs?
    You wont talk about Neville because he is a Man U player.
    Carvahlo is part of the best defensive unit in the country. Oozes class and keeps out Ferdinand who would have been my other choice

    Pool to lose on Tuesday :devil:
     
  11. Marc

    Marc
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    i agree he's not an amazing left back, at least where defending is concerned but he's one of the best in europe at overlapping and providing decoy runs to enable pires, henry, ljungberg, reyes (or whoever is playing on the left at that particular time) to cut inside and score, and that happens a helluva lot in Arsenal matches, which is the reason he's rated so highly. I think he's very much a player in the Carlos mould, and i think that with age will come a greater defensive awareness and perhaps make him less spiteful, so when he's about 30 he will be a truly amazing defender but for the moment he's much more a wing back than a full back.

    I would love to see England go do a 5-3-2 formation again, with perhaps cole and wright-phillips playing as attacking wing backs as i feel this suit sven's style of play down to the ground, and also get rid of the debate over which two centre backs to play, as ferdinand, terry and campbell could all get in the side! Not to mention they could play gerrard, lampard and beckham all in central midfield instead of making them play out of position.
     
  12. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    :rolleyes: i only have to look at fulhams goal the other week for one to see oozes class :rotfl: it dont matter who you play in there with terry they will be the best. as much as i :censored: hate to say it man yoo had the donkeys in with stam and they won the treble and didnt look like conceding at all, get my point. for 26 million he is a massive flop and here is the biased coming but justifiably so id have jamie carragher any day of the week over him and ferdinand
     
  13. RekalinSimms

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    I would hardly say Makelele is overrated. Everywhere he goes, he leads his team to success, and when he has left, the team has not fared nearly as well.
     
  14. smelly

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    :p
     
  15. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    Give me a break!!! :lease:

    First of all Hamann was better than Makalele and now Carragher is better than Ferdinand. Why are most footy fans show a real lack of objectiveness in these matters??

    I agree Ferdinand isn't worth £20+m, but to say you would rather have Carragher is stretching the point some!
     
  16. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    for one i did NOT say hamann was better than makelele

    so read that right please.

    carragher is just a good a defender as rio plus the main point is he plays for his club with heart with passion. a one club man who dosnt have money on the brain unlike some. yes he has been in trouble in the past but we was a yonugster with money who woundnt go out with his mates. i keep reading stories this week of rio refusing a 100k a week contract. thats beyond shocking !!!!

    so yes id have him over rio any day hell id have a team of eleven carradona's any day. we wouldnt score but we wouldnt get beat :devil:
     
  17. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    Errr yes you would....football has plenty of teams with 11 hard working water carriers in the four leagues and beyond. Carragher is a steady hard working premiership player,and although I agree with you on Ferdinand's attitude, I think you need more class and ability to play at the highest level and against the best than Carragher has.

    I am not convinced yet that Ferdinand is/or will become a 'great' defender, but he is better that Carragher.

    Personally I feel that Carragher deficiencies are masked buy how well Liverpool can defend as a team and the water carriers that have play sometimes just in front of the back four.
     
  18. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    funny you'd think nedved, del piero, ibrahimovic have class but they didnt beat the carra at all ;) our player of the season by far in my eye better than rio ferdinand. you have obviously never discussed liverpool players with me like the others have.

    overkill fill him in please :D
     
  19. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    A bit difficult to play against carrdona one on one when you play with 9 other outfield players within touching distance. :devil:

    It would have been nice to see him one on one against a proper player like Ronaldinho or Figo at his best...the players you mention aren't fit to lace these two boots. I like Nedved as a player, but he is hardly a definitive test for a defender.
     
  20. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    he didnt win world footballer of the year but standing on the touchline doing nothing :cool:
     
  21. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    and?? He is an excellent box to box player, but is hardly like to beat you with his pace, silky skills, sublime footwork or unlock a defence with a killer pass, but he is likely to get stuck in and score and scorcher of a goal from 30 yards.

    Fifa 2004 world player of the year..Ronaldinho.

    I am looking forward to seeing Carragher marking shevchenko if they both reach the final....anyone remember Adams marking Van Basten in the Euros???????? :eek:
     
  22. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Jamie Carragher good as he may be defensively doenst have enough class ON THE BALL unlike Ferdinand. These days defenders have to be able to take the ball out of defensive situation and pass the ball without losing posession.
     
  23. Bristol Pete

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    Personally, to diffuse the apparent tension can I suggest the Bristol City's aging left back Mickey Bell is in fact the best defender in the world :smashin:

    Ex Wycombe too!!!

    Pete.
     
  24. Squiffy

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    I'd have to agree with LGS in this instance.

    The vast majority of fans & managers would rather have Ferdinand in their team. He is undoubtedly a better all round player than Carragher.

    Which isn't to do Carragher down - he's had a fantastic season, and should be proud of himself. :)
     
  25. mjn

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    Ha ha.....have you ever seen him play?
     
  26. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    Plenty of times thanks..watched a lot of italian football in my time and have seen a lot of the Czechs' over the past few years as most of us have.

    If you had a team with Nedved in and swapped him for either of say Lampard or Gerrard you wouldn't notice the difference. In fact it could be argued you were adding to the side rather than taking away.

    I am a firm believer that in this country we totally over rate foreign teams / players and that there are very few truely 'great' players in the world.

    If half of these teams were as great as everyone makes out they are we wouldn't have a Liverpool v Chelsea Semi final of the Champions League...and you can hardly say they haven't played anyone to get there.

    Chelsea were clearly the better team against Barcelona & Bayern, Barcelona defended like Norwich and all the supposed 'great' Juventus players couldn't unlock a hard working solid team like Liverpool. In fact the only goal they scored was from a goalie error.
     
  27. Miyazaki

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    whats a water carrier?
     
  28. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    The term was first used by Eric Cantona as a derisive descripotion of Didier Deschamps the famous Juventus and France holiding midfield player.Nevr blessed with outrrageous Cantona like skills he was nevertheless an essential player-midfield fulcrum ,captain and inspiration to his team mates
     
  29. Miyazaki

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    fine. But why the term water carrier? What does it mean?
     
  30. overkill

    overkill
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    Knowing Cantona, the same as those seagulls following the boat......... :D I.e. not a lot!
     

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