Is atmos worth it ?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by leedowner, Dec 25, 2017.

Tags:
  1. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    I have an amp that supports Atmos and DTS:X.

    Speakers can either be 7.1 or 5.1.2.

    So it's already set as 7.1 but I could add ceiling speakers and connect/disconnect them with banana plugs when I want to switch 7.1 to 5.1.2 or vice versa.

    So is it worth it ? I mostly play PC games and I'll be watching Game of Thrones so I suppose the Dragons will sound cool I noticed season 7 uses Atmos.

    I had some upfiring Onkyo speakers when I bought the amp but I sold them, if I go for Atmos/DTS:X should I get upfiring or ceiling mounted ? And how much would I have to spend to get some good ones ? Also need some brackets if they're ceiling mounted.

    Thanks.
     
  2. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,845
    You just cannot plug and unplug speakers to swap between 7.1 and 5.1.2, you will also need to re-assign the speakers in the receivers menu every time. Atmos, even with using the pseudo upmixing of Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X on non Atmos content is far more immersive that any base floor layout beit 5.1 or 7.1.

    As for the dragons of GoT in Atmos. One word. Duck.:)
     
  3. Venomx999

    Venomx999
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    576
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +131
    Can someone explain what 5.1.2 is ? I thought it was a typo.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. DodgeTheViper

    DodgeTheViper
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Messages:
    20,549
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Inbetween Upgrades !
    Ratings:
    +9,873
    5 - Front three speakers and two surround speakers

    .1 - Subwoofer

    .2 - Ceiling/Up firing (placed on top of front L&R speakers)/Height Speakers
     
  5. stevos

    stevos
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Messages:
    6,208
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +591
    I have the following speakers in place

    Traditional 7.2 ground layer (2 subs).

    I then have:

    2 SVS prime elevations as front heights
    2 Onkyo SKH410 atmos modules in rear duties.

    Having 9 channels of amplification, i have been I have been experimenting between 5.2.2, 5.2.4 and 7.2.2. Rerunning audyseey each time is a bit of a pain in the back side.

    My current view is that 5.2 is good enough and the difference above that are extremely marginal. Maybe if i had mono poles instead of bi-poles in rear duties and less dispersion, it would be a different story or a bigger living room with more space behind the chair for the rears, or maybe better room treatment.

    I am wondering if proper ceiling channels might also be better, but honestly disappointed.
     
  6. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    Thanks for the replies.

    I understand that settings will need to be changed, it doesn't take too long.

    So Atmos/DTS:X isn't just a gimmick ?

    I had those SKH-410's and sold them! Wish I hadn't now, maybe I could buy them for the same price.

    Any idea how many games make use of ceiling speakers ?
     
  7. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,845
    The biggest benefit of a 5.1.2 set up comes with the transfer of sound between speakers, especially when the sound is designed to be elevated. The transfer is much smoother, no hole in sound between speakers. It does give a fuller and more natural sound. The two main upmixing modes of Dolby Surround and DTS Neural do an excellent job of fitting the listener into a bubble of sound.

    Expect the ceiling to come alive with sound and you may be disappointed it's far more subtle than that and fills the void above the listener that often occurs with a 5.1 floor layout.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. mb3195

    mb3195
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,886
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Location:
    Peterborough
    Ratings:
    +1,835
    Atmos all the way, even upmixing of non Atmos tracks makes the sounds much more immersive.

    The spitfires in Dunkirk were literally flying over my head earlier......
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. Losifanatic

    Losifanatic
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Products Owned:
    38
    Products Wanted:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Hertford, NC.
    Ratings:
    +6
    I set up a 7.2 system and then set up the 5.2.2. The Atmos 5.2.2 is much more immersive. I am using the onkyo upfiring right now but l'm going ceiling speakers very soon
     
  10. starborn50

    starborn50
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +11
    I using 5.1.4 all Kef sounds great ,in dedicated soundproofed proof.Tried 7.1 .2 but not as good.
     
  11. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    My left and right surround speakers are at head height as I sit which I know is too low but the room won't allow them to go any higher, so will ceiling speakers help with that on tracks that are not mixed in Atmos ?

    My rear surrounds are Cambridge Audio Minx Min 22's, would those or the smaller Min 11 work well as ceiling speakers or are ceiling speakers unique in some way? The Mins are designed to be mounted onto a neat little bracket, I won't be able to sink the speakers into the ceiling.
     
  12. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,845
    For an Atmos set up the surrounds should be at head heigth, so if you add Atmos it's perfect. The Min 11s are a popular choice fixed dirctly to the ceiling because of their light weight and small size, so again you're on the right track.

    The reason for the lower position of the surrounds in an Atmos set up is to give a good seperation between the layers of sound, giving a sense of many sounds going up, over and disappearing behind you the bubble of sound.
     
  13. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    Alright thanks.

    Are the Min 11's the same speaker as the 22's ?

    Just 1 less speaker in each unit obviously.
     
  14. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,845
    Yes single vs double drivers.
     
  15. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    Last question on speaker placement, should ceiling speakers go infront or behind me ? I'll only have 2 of them.

    Thanks.
     
  16. DodgeTheViper

    DodgeTheViper
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Messages:
    20,549
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Inbetween Upgrades !
    Ratings:
    +9,873
    In front.
     
  17. Rob.Screene

    Rob.Screene
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,329
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berks, England
    Ratings:
    +152
    The up mixing is so good I often have to use on-screen info to tell 5.1 sources from Atmos. Was half an hour in to Dunkirk before i checked and noted is not an Atmos mix.
     
  18. theone8181

    theone8181
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    Has anyone compared how good front upfiring are vs ceiling speakers? Also if a ceiling is a twirly artex pattern will that make it worse?
     
  19. Jules

    Jules
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    5,660
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Ratings:
    +1,168
    Twirly Artex won't work too well IMO. if you throw a stone into a still lake of water you'll see a ripple spread out evenly. If the same lake of water is full of rocks and stones.... you get the idea.

    In fact, I'm firmly in the 'overhead/height speakers or don't bother' camp.
    Others will say they've had some success with upfiring speakers so I guess you can only try.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  20. Kev Greenhalgh

    Kev Greenhalgh
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    588
    Products Owned:
    5
    Products Wanted:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +741
    This made me giggle, not because I'm laughing at you Jules, but because me and my dad were trying to explain what standing waves and boundary effects are. We ended up using the exact same analogy.

    Still met with a glazed look, and followed by "so you don't recommend a soundbar then"? ;)
     
  21. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    So how far in front ? Does anyone have any pictures of where to place them ? I'm probably being pedantic now but when I installed my 7.1 I had a tape measure out so each set of speakers are the same distance from my head (accurate to no more than a few CM).

    Regarding the artex ceiling, the only solution for that involves a hammer and chisel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  22. Kev Greenhalgh

    Kev Greenhalgh
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    588
    Products Owned:
    5
    Products Wanted:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +741
    7.1.2-atmos-speaker-setup.jpg dolby atmos 7.1.4.png Dolby-Atmos-5-4-1-7-1-4-sideview.jpg

    ;)
     
  23. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    *goes to grab tape and pencil*
     
  24. theone8181

    theone8181
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    OK so would front heights be the next best (as in on the wall not ceiling speakers)? Don't get me wrong, the Mrs rather surprisingly has said she'd be OK with ceiling speakers but it's a massive job compared to chasing out a wall.
     
  25. Losifanatic

    Losifanatic
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Products Owned:
    38
    Products Wanted:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Hertford, NC.
    Ratings:
    +6
    I just ordered some klipsch ceiling speakers today. Cant wait to see how thry compare to the upfiring atmos speakers
     
  26. Derek S-H

    Derek S-H
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,778
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +2,668
    I've got a stippled Artex pattern on my ceiling and the Atmos upfirers work well enough. I know in an ideal world it's supposed to be completely smooth and free of patterns, but we make the best of what we have.
     
  27. theone8181

    theone8181
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    I know everything is a compromise (tbh I'm already up in the points department as I've said its an alternative to 7.1:)).
     
  28. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,845
    I have a very slight stipple and my KEF R50s work well. American Made had plenty of overhead effects from it's native DTS:X soundtrack, both ambient and highly directional.
     
  29. rob_brum

    rob_brum
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Birmingham, uk
    Ratings:
    +659
    I like my KEF R50's, with it being Xmas only really played with the Dolby Atmos app on the Xbox one, a dolby Atoms demo disk and a little netflix ..so need to to find some good films to buy/watch now...but so far so good.
     
  30. leedowner

    leedowner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    If you want to hide the cables it's probably best to drill holes to poke them up into the ceiling then go upstairs and pull the wires through under the upstairs floorboards.

    My cinema/games room is a purpose built loft conversion so I don't have to worry about my wife. She never comes up here :clap:

    I just clip cables to the wall and paint them if it's a pain to hide them, I'll do the same on the ceiling and I won't even notice once it's done.
     

Share This Page

Loading...