1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is ALIS panel so bad ???

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by thierfeu, Oct 17, 2004.

  1. thierfeu

    thierfeu
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hello

    I think this forum is not an ALIS fan club

    why so much hate ?

    Hitachi plasma is based on an ALIS 1024 x 1024 panel and is very well noted ?

    is there a sum-up which explain such a reluctance to promote ALIS in there ?

    thanks

    Thomson released a 42 PB 220 set at a 3750 € / 2600£ which looks nice (102' x 1024 1100cd 1000:1) 2 tuners, pip,pap,pat, 3scart DVI yuv....
    mind always troubled by the non HD compatibility of the so nice PAnny
     
  2. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    ALIS is not HD either if you were considering a Fujitsu HHA 30 it would be a different matter but IMHO Cheap ALIS panels are not good enough for Video TV or DVD..... A 372 or 42" Veira (PA30 in france) will accept 1080i signal so can be used with HD1 Pan european HD satellite. 720p is where the question is...
     
  3. peezee

    peezee
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    ... and PW7 is where the answer may lie...

    Thierfeu, have you looked into that possibility? Very different design and base config. from PA30 or PD5200, it doesn't have a tuner, HPs, ... but you can add what you need with option boards.

    In particular you could add DVI-HDCP or HDMI input boards, which brings you into HD and 720p capability - while keeping the Panasonic picture you like.

    FWIW, I've found a retailer in Paris that tells me they're able to provide a TH-37PWD7 with DVI and pedestal for less than 2800€. On the 42" model you could also add Scart, YUV, ... inputs (not sure about tuner though, I don't need one since I have cable TV).

    P.S. As for ALiS panels, I find the Hitachi's lacking details, in fact the picture is a little blurry when compared with other screens like the Pana's. On the other hand Sony makes better plasma TVs based on the same ALiS glass, hence the importance of a high quality video processing - which Hitachi lacks imo. But it has a lower price tag too...
     
  4. thierfeu

    thierfeu
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks

    interesting information horny... the question is to know which format will be future Free to air Tv in France

    sorry to be dull but, i have problems with HD compatibility, when you say "37PA will accept 1080i" what does it mean ?

    It accepts this signal, and display is the same as before ?
    It accepts this signal , and display is enhanced significally ? (how?)

    this 1080i signal will be processed by a "black box", how will it be transmetted "as is"to TV ? RGB ? YUV ? I thought on ly DVI and HDMI could accept this (and 37PA is missing these)

    thanks to light my mind

    PS : considering PW7, it's a good idea BUT when you have Canalsatellite , you don't have TF1 and M6 (national channels) inside, then you have to use TV tuner to catch them

    second point : Even if wife has a PhD, it's unconceivable to change channels of the "standard TV" anywhere else than in the TV remote command (i.e using VCR tuner is over unacceptable)
     
  5. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    i will accept 1080interlaced lines of video and downscale to native res of screen 852x480.
     
  6. grahamtriggs

    grahamtriggs
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    779
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +33
    thierfeu, I thought you had looked at an LG, and were happy with it? If so, with all your uncertainty, it would be better to choose the LG, which would be compatible with, and get a benefit from, future HDTV broadcasts. You would save a lot of money compared to your other options, which could be put aside for upgrading in the future to make better use of HDTV when it is more established, and there should be better and cheaper technology available.
     
  7. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    Thierfeu, bear in mind Graham's is very much a minority opinion, most of us would't suggest LG to our worst enemies. Nonetheless, the purpose of the forum is to hear all opinions, so it's not a bad thing to have someone blow LG's trumpet. People do tend to be very defensive of their own systems, it's human nature to think you have made good decisions. For Graham, this may be so, for 95% of others it's beter to futureproof now, not chuck £1500 worth of gear away and start again, particularly if you could afford to be enjoying better quality now.
     
  8. grahamtriggs

    grahamtriggs
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    779
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +33
    It may not be the popular opinion around here, but then how many people are Panasonic owners because of recommendations on this forum, and haven't even looked at panels from other 'big' names, let alone makes like LG (that AFAIK haven't been on demo in too many places before now)? It's a good thing that Panasonic owners are happy with their plasmas, but there are other valid choices out there.

    Bear in mind, that Thierfeu has already expressed a favourable opinion about the current crop of LGs http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156616. OK, that's one of the more expensive panels they make, but the cheaper new models may also be suitable.

    In terms of 'futureproof', the new LG's are no less futureproof than a PW6, and with the exception of HDMI - not really a necessity - no less futureproof than a PW7. They have component, RGB and DVI inputs, and accept current HD standard inputs.

    With question marks over the specifications of the PW7, and the ability of Viera to handle HD signals, do they really justify their premium prices? Especially for someone that has already expressed that they equally like the PQ of other sets?

    And bear in mind that I am not intending to dump my kit in two years - the point I made was that in X years time, if the quantity of HD content, and the quality benefits of having a true HD display is significant enough, I can upgrade without thinking about how much I spent only a short time ago. By which time there should also be much better HD displays than currently exist, and quite possibly at cheaper prices.
     
  9. highlander_777

    highlander_777
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    216
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    I had the panny. it developed a fault after 4 weeks, lose wires!!!

    always owned Sony's with no issues. Decided to get a Sony 37 Plasma. I believe that it has a better pic + better looking

    Interesting Sony does not really get a mention on this forum. Very Panny centric
     
  10. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    Partly cost based there, you do pay a premium for Sony, and it's just dressed up Hitachi glass, no Sony magic, shame really. Sony innovate well, not so good at following trends. The current LCD sonys are where their development is headed, they don't seem to give much of a damn about plasma.
    Graham, your points are well made, I do not dispute your sincerity, but as a very experienced plasma retailer, I have to say even the current crop of LG's are simply not very good compared to the latest from Japan. Yes, as I've already said to you, I have seen the latest, I went to the launch, and they let me play. 1st class deinterlacing does not make a great plasma on it's own. Analogue tuners and built in everything do not push my buttons, I would still never specify one for a client.
     
  11. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Indeed, I concur with this forum is very pany focused.

    I also saw the PA30, and the PQ was very very good. With the 3 years warranty Panasonic gives now, I almost bought one.

    But I wanted a HDTV with real 1080i. And I went for the Philips 42pf9966 ... with ALIS 1024x1024i. Very very good PQ (cable en HD), and so does the Hitachi (less with cable, but sure does in HD) and the Sony ... all with ALIS technology.

    The main question was, why is ALIS not good ???

    Greetz
     
  12. thierfeu

    thierfeu
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks

    I don't want to cause polemics

    horny : ok for downscaling to native resolution, but my question is concerning quality :

    on a 37PA30 : is quality of a downscaled HD picture (coming probably from YUV ?) better than actual SD satellite digital signal picture coming from RGB input ?

    if answer is YES : what should be better ? :

    1) A Panny with 4000:1 contrast picture enhanced by (downscaled) HD 1024

    or

    2) A Alis or LG with 1000:1 HD picture, on native resolution

    This simple question is the center of my pre-purchasing interrogations :

    1) The Panny, whose picture I love
    2) The Alis ou the LG, whose HD spec I prefer (and even concerning LG PY10 like the picture)
     
  13. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've seen the LG PX11 and PY10 together.
    DVD and HD did not make much difference. So why buy the PY10 instead of the PX11. But when you connect a PC to the PY10 in its native resulotion (1024x768), without powerstrip or what so ever, very crisp and clear. really amazing.
     
  14. FEBABE

    FEBABE
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Against all the pro Panasonic posts on here, it was the HD compatibility issue and Highlander's posts that convinced me to go for the Sony and I haven't regretted it for a minute (thanks!). I eventually paid just a couple of hundred quid premium over the panasonic. I believe the XS1's have Sony electronics whereas the earlier ones had Hitachi, so maybe there is a bit of Sony "magic" in there...
     
  15. sl8ed

    sl8ed
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hello Febabe.
    Where did you find the Sony XS1 for £1800?
     
  16. highlander_777

    highlander_777
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    216
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
  17. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    you cannot run an ALIS panel at native with a £2000 Scaler..... Not sure if PC can output correct 1024x512 PS or 1024x1024 YX frame pattern picture to completely bypass screen scaling electronics.
    Also HD plasma is normally (42") 1024x768 which will require a10801 siganl to be downsacled anyway... or a 720p to be upscaled albeit a few lines..... SO do yu pay more sacrifice contrast and downscale less? or have excellent SD images very good HD images or sit on the fence and hope??? What looks better with TV and DVD? Panny or LG or ALIS What will look better with a yet to be released broadcast system? And yet to be released Media system? No body knows........
    PS Do you have satellite already and will you pay the huge premium for HD content they will want for the first few years???
     
  18. sl8ed

    sl8ed
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Highlander

    Which panny model are we talking about here the Viera or the PW6?
     
  19. Dr Downey

    Dr Downey
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    122
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Ratings:
    +0
    My Sony ALIS panel accepts 1080i input.
     
  20. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    Accepting a 1080i signal and displaying a 1080i signal as 1080i are different and your sony will not display at 1080i............................ As it would need to be a 1920x1080 resolution panel.
     
  21. FEBABE

    FEBABE
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    sl8ed

    Much the same as Highlander, I did a pricematch at JL against Hi-spek and paid £2600 for the screen, Sony DVD recorder (new 300 model) and 5 year warranty. The panny was about £2200 plus the stand at the time. Since warranty from D&M was £320, DVD £300, I figured I paid about £2K for the screen.

    F
     
  22. highlander_777

    highlander_777
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    216
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    question

    TH37PE30B
     
  23. FEBABE

    FEBABE
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Highlander

    Since you've actually lived with both the Panny and the Sony, what was the real difference in the PQ? Can you tell the difference between 1000:1 and 4000:1 contrast ratio? Can you sit closer to the Sony before pixelation of the image starts (due to the higher number of pixels)? Are the blacks much worse on the Sony?

    F
     
  24. highlander_777

    highlander_777
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    216
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    FEBABE

    I believe that the pic on the Sony is better. I sit the same distance away (9-10ft) and the overall pic through sky+ is about the same however the real diff is when I watch a movie on DVD.

    Your question about contrast ratio. As there is no industry standard for this, the panny claim is somewhat flawed.

    btw. My sony is the 37" version
     
  25. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree with HornyDragon. And I've also been struggling with the same choice.
    The Pany or the Philips being 1000 € more expensive.

    And if I understand it good, it's not realy that ALIS is bad. 1080i is being downscaled by every TV because there is no system that has the resolution natively. PQ is determined by the scaler of the TV set. And what is good looking HD is different for everybody. You can argue endless about tast.

    So the answer to the ALIS being bad is, how much do you want to spent, look at all the features and please go have a look and compare.

    Easy.
     
  26. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    True but not for very long.............. prepare to salivate............http://www.sharp.co.uk/titanium/ 1920x1080 native res thats 1080p peeps............ 45 inches of LCD goodness
     
  27. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    indeed,

    Though the Aquos range seems to be very good.
    but at what price

    Maybe in a couple of years...
     
  28. thierfeu

    thierfeu
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    ouch, it's incredible to see how difficult is it to find his way, between contrast, resolution, upscale, downscale

    what I see is : how to choice a futureproof set as long as we don't know what is future made of (in term of standard)

    2 weeks before order, and still balanced between :
    - 37or 42 PA30 that i loved watching it
    - Alis based Hitachi or sony 37 or 42 ' (hitachi 42' at a 3000€ now)
    - LG PY10 that I enjoyed, watching it

    but horny your answer was full of sense...enjoy present quality instead of waiting for unknown future...

    maybe i got the answer and misunderstood, but :

    is downscaled HD image on a SD Panny better than SD image on a PAnny ??
     
  29. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    Should be mate....... not seen it on an SD panny..... Only HD 50" :D
     
  30. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    You can see the difference between sd and hd on a sd panny, it's obvious when you are switching between them. I prefer 720p on a panasonic, but maybe that's just the content....
     

Share This Page

Loading...