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is a 800x600 projector good enough for a large screen ?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by jjcool, Aug 25, 2004.

  1. jjcool

    jjcool
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    hi,

    im still on the lookout for a budget projector,
    i was thinking of the INFOCUS X1 ,

    however i will be useing it on a 7-8 foot screen, so im not sure if this projector is ideal for such a large screen as i heard people say about screendoor effect being a 800x600 projector, what exactly is screendoor anyways? sorry im fairly new to this done a search and i still dont understand, will it be a issue with this projector?

    or do u need a certain spec for such a big screen? want to get things right before i decide, as this being my first projector and proberbly wont upgrade for a few years,

    thankyou
     
  2. Jim McC

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    jjcool, SDE is associated with LCD projectors. The X1 is a DLP projector, and you may see a problem called the rainbow effect(Do a search). The X1 is fine for a 7'-8' screen as long as you don't sit too close. You should sit approx. 2X screen width back from screen(14' back for 7' screen). The X1 is probably the most popular projector here in USA.
     
  3. jjcool

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    any way of telling if u will suffer from rainbow effect unless you view?

    also whats the diffrence between 1024x768 and 800x600? i gather ones 4.3 and 1024x768 is widescreen,
    so what would happen if u have a 800x600 and want to view widescreen,

    sorry about the dumb questions im new to this.
     
  4. LV426

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    1: You can't tell your sensitivity to DLP rainbows without demo-ing. Ideally for an hour or so. And it may affect others in your family (etc) even if it doesn't affect you - so take them along.

    2: 1024x768 is 4x3, just like 800x600 (work it out). On any 4x3 projector, widescreen material is displayed across the middle of the screen, just like it would be on a 4x3 TV (i.e. letterboxed). And you don't get to use all your pixels. For 16x9 material, your resolution drops to 800x450, with the remaining 150 (height) being black - 75 above and 75 below. The difference between 1024x768 and 800x600 is just in the amount of detail it can resolve. Common pixel structures for 16x9 projectors are 1280x720, 1366x768 (there are others). To work it out, if you divide 16 by 9 you get 1.7777777.... And, if you divide (say) 1280 by 720 you get 1.777777777..... (see?) Similarly 4 / 3 = 1.33333.....; 800 / 600 = 1.333333.......

    If your main type of viewing is digital TV and/or widescreen DVDs, I recommend you go for a native 16x9 projector and matching screen shape.
     
  5. jjcool

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    ok just to update,

    just got back from town, i went into a shop, the guy had a panasonic PT-AE 200, 350hours used out of 5000 he said,
    he saidi can have it for £400.00, however is this worth the cash over a x1
    the panasonic has:
    700 ANSI lumens brightness,
    700:1 contrast ratio,

    however the x1 is:
    1000 lm (ANSI),
    Contrast 2000:1 full on/full off

    for a extra £200 i can get the x1 brand new

    heard the panasonics are good however im not 100% sure if £400.00 is a good deal for the panasonic or to just buy a new x1 for £600.00

    what do u guys think?
     
  6. jjcool

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    anyone advize?
     
  7. theritz

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    If you're looking for direct advice, I'd say go for the AE200........ at £400 it's a complete no-brainer.


    Sean G.
     
  8. LV426

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    AE200 is a 16x9 device, hence more suited to HC use.
     
  9. jjcool

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    thanks for the advice guys,

    will the AE200 be ok on a 8ft screen, and will there be any screendoor?
     
  10. LV426

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    Yes, and yes, probably, depending on how good your eyesight is and how close you are to it. The 200 is quite coarse, although Panasonic have a method of "blurring" the edges of the pixels to reduce their visibility. If screendoor concerns you, pay more for a PT-AE500, which has a high enough resolution to make screendoor a non-issue. See http://www.discounttv.co.uk/ for a fairly respectable offer.
     
  11. jjcool

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    well i will be proberly be sitting about 14 foot away so would i notice it?

    also can i ask what causes screendoor? and what does screen door looklike, done a search and find it alot? ive never had a projector so not sure its affects?
     
  12. windfall

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    jjcool

    I have a Panasonic PTAE100. Its a bit old now but I purchased it 18 months ago and project onto a 16x9 screen from about 115".

    I sit about 130" away from the screen and can notice the panel makeup. Its sometimes been said that slightly blurring the focus can reduce the effect , but I have mine focused properly and to be honest dont focus on the panel as much as I do on whats being shown if you see what I mean.

    I would wholly recommend you get a 16x9 panel PJ, my picture is 7ft 5" diagonal and sitting 14ft away its great in a darkened room, everyone thats seen it is suitably impressed I also use a 1.2 Gain screen so the percieved brightness of the opicture is higher as the screen reflects the light a bit more.

    Dunno if this helps but hope so.

    Tone
     
  13. thfccambs

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    I would also say go for the ae200,i have a 7ft screen at sit about 11 ft away with out any problems.For £400 its a bargain.
     
  14. theritz

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    In an LCD projector the image is created by light shining through three LCD panels (Red Green and Blue). The term "screendoor" refers to the visibility of the "gaps" between the pixels in the projected image. With the AE200 I'd advise a screen 7 ft wide at the most and sitting 14 ft away you shouldn't really have any complaints. If you do notice the structure of the picture, then slightly (and I mean slightly!) de-focussing the picture should eliminate it leaving you with a very detailed but smooth image.

    If this was on sale with 350 hrs up on it for £400 in a local shop, I'd buy it.

    Sean G.
     
  15. jjcool

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    thanks for the help guys i really appretiate it very much
    being new to this and what ever i buy it will be my first projector and proberly last well for a few years anyway,

    its all decisions decisions when it comes to projectors, screendoor,rainbow effects? which makes choosing even more hard its the old dlp vs lcd battle i guess,
    i just want to get his right and be sure before i buy,
    just came off phone from shop and said im still interested,
    they said thay still have it for sale for £400 or £500 with a 5'5" x 4'2" screen, however i dont know how big that is in feet? totally useless at maths lol,
    if not i will buy the infocus x1 dlp brand new at £600, and buy a screen afterwards,
    its a hard decision, hearing stories about screendoor and rainbow effects has really put me off,

    but what do i know ive never seen screendoor or rainbow effects, so i dont know how bad they look,
    i dont want to shell out money and then be watching me favorite dvd and seeing screendoor "gaps" in the picture,
    so its hard to judge,

    however im new to all this and never seen a projector in action before im just going from thought.
     
  16. windfall

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    jjcool

    Until you have viewed both types of PJ you wont know mate. I looked at an infocus 4805 a couple of weeks back and wasnt overly impressed with what I saw. But try before you buy, as you say if its gonna last a few years invest a bit of time and go and see LCD/DLP before you spend any hard earned "taxed" cash! I cannot recommend that enough and I'm sure everyone will say the same thing. And as I said before if you are gonna watch a lot of movies and 16x9 pics try to get a 16x9 PJ as opposed to the 4x3 (800x600) as it will pee you off in due course.

    Like everything after a bit of time you will get used to things and then you may think "should have..."

    Good luck though mate.

    Tone

    Good luck in your choice
     
  17. theritz

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    jjcool,

    A 5'5" x 4'2" screen wouldn't suit the AE200, it throws a 16x9 (widescreen) image (the same shape as a widescreen tv). If you can accomodate it, you could make a fixed screen by stretching blackout cloth (it's used for lining curtains to stop the light shining through them, you'd get it in any shop that sells curtain material, dead cheap, it comes 60" wide, you'd need 2.5 yds of it) and stretch it over a frame made with 2x1 pieces of timber. There's links in the FAQ on how to do this, the whole lot shouldn't cost you more than about £25............. alternatively you could get a piece of MDF cut to a 16x9 shape the right width for your screen (for a 7ft wide screen, it would be 84" x 47.25", paint it matt white (a couple of coats, use a foam roller and try not to get roller marks on it) and a black border made with black velvet ribbon about 1.5" wide. Another option is to get a pull down blind the right width, 6 or 7 ft wide - I think there's an Ikea one that people have tried.... have a look in the Screens forum, lots of info on diy screens there. A dark surround on a white screen really makes a big difference to the perception of the image from a projector.

    I'd agree that seeing a projector in action is usually the best idea........... however a demo in a brightly lit store on a small/wrong sized screen can give a person a terrible impression. I've had an AE100 (predecessor to the AE200) for two years, showing on a diy blackoutcloth screen. I'm lucky enough to have a room where I can have the lights off (really best for picture quality, light shining on the screen from table lamps etc. "wash out" the picture from a projector), and it still makes me grin.............. If you choose to go for the AE200 without seeing it in action, I don't think you'd be going far wrong...., just a bit of work for a screen and use the best source (dvd player) that you can.

    BTW, I wouldn't want you to get the idea that you're being "pushed into" this by us answering your questions........... just trying to be positive and dispel concerns which are not really such a big deal.



    Sean.
     
  18. jjcool

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    thanks again for the replys much appretiated

    theritz, do u notice screendoor with your projector? i know its the model up but i guess they are near the same, just slighty higher specs,

    as for screens, i guess i will take your advise on that screen, if u think its not suited, i did ask them what screens they had 4.3 and widescreen, they said they did have a 100 x 58 metal framed 16:9 screen however they wanted £200 for it,
    seems alot of money to me, but not sure if this is a good price,
     
  19. Techno Freak

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    Hi JJcool,

    I have has a panasonic PT-300 for about a year now and I am still VERY impressed with it.

    I project onto a 7' wide screen 16:9 and there is no noticable effects on the picture.

    I was expecting the picture to be good when I first put it together but I had no idea it would be as good as it is. One year later and I still get excited whenever I go to watch a film on it.

    Cheapest I can find a PT-300 is £750 on www.pricerunner.co.uk

    I have never demo'd any other PJ's so I have nothing to compare it to. However, I am so impressed with the Panny that I find it hard to imagine other budget PJ's bieng comparable - there does not seem to be many posts that knock the quality of the Pannasonic range on the forums.

    Best of luck with whatever you decide.
     
  20. Crustyloafer

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    What strikes me a very strange is that you have been to a store that has this model for sale and they haven't even offered to demonstrate it for you. Personally speaking I wouldn't buy any projector without seeing it up and running. If the dealer is unwilling to do that then I would find another dealer.
     
  21. theritz

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    ....."find another dealer" with a £400 AE200 with 350hrs runtime on it ?? The standard advice of seeing a projector running has already been posted here but there's a difference in "the mix" if you're considering buying a secondhand projector to get started with. If the dealer can offer a demo then all the better, but it's unrealistic in a case like this to advice the poster to go elsewhere.

    My 2c.





    Sean G.
     
  22. MikeD

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    Personally I would strongly advise going elsewhere if the dealer wasn't prepared to demo the unit before you bought, I'd be wondering why it's only £400 and has it really only done 350 hours.

    What sort of warranty is the dealer offering?

    Sorry jjcool if we're making your decision to buy harder but none of us here would like to see you to get ripped off, it sounds like a good buy but you need to make sure.

    Regards MikeD
     
  23. jjcool

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    thanks for the kind advice much appretiated :smashin:

    its not a dealer, its a shop that sells diffrent used electric equipment,
    the projector is not new its used,
    phoned them again today just to check if they still had it, and appaently they now want £410 for it, im still trying to read old posts about this projector before i decide, why they have put a extra 10 pounds on top in a day is weired?
     
  24. Chris M

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    jjcool

    I've had the IBM ilv300 for about 6 months - it's just the same as the 4800/x1 but IBM branded - and it came with an extra years warranty as standard (2yrs as opposed to 1 as standard, if I remember correctly). I paid £670 for it then - may be even cheaper now as fewer people realise it's an infocus clone.

    IMO you must demo before you buy. Though it's a 4:3 projector, it's capable of terrific picture quality. The screen door effect doesn't bother me at all. Some people will 'obsess' about this sort of thing to the point where it interferes with their enjoyment. You won't know this for sure till you see the projector in action and spend time with it. The rainbow effect is visible to myself and my partner, but it not a constant thing - just very fleeting and occasional. Similar advice here too, some people will fixate on this, others won't - and, I suppose, for some, it will be more of a real problem. Neither 'artefact' does anything to detract from the terrrific picture for the money IMO.

    When we demo'd the projector as a screenplay 4800, we tried Attack of the clones and a Pioneer 565 universal player - the detail was staggering, great 3D feel, and lovely blacks. We even had a chance to compare with a more expensive projector c. £3k but I don't remember the model/make. There wasn't a clearcut difference for us.

    Another thing which may be controversial on here - screen. We project onto a smooth matt white wall. Used to use a Toshiba 330E DVD, now the pioneer 575A. In a good dark room, I really can't see that a screen adds much/anything to the quality. Infact, with the new Pioneer hooked up, we both sat watching Attack of the Clones yet again (!) with our jaws hanging down. We both said the picture looked as good as we'd seen when first demo'ing the projector. Another thing: a screen will limit the size. We often go bigger or smaller with the image - up to about 8ft wide - in our room, according to various factors. For those who prefer the neat black border of a screen, this won't appeal, but I'd find that unhelpful and restrictive. Again, it's all down to personal taste.

    We demo'd the screenplay at a shop in Beckenham. I don't know where you live, but branches of the shop also exist in central london. From memory, the shop was called "Musical Fidelity" - they advertise in Whathi anyhow.

    I've now idea about the other projector you're interested in. Even if I did, the basic advice is always the same - listen to others, but demo and make up your own mind.

    FYI, our budget home cinema consists of: IBM ilv300 (£670), Pioneer 575A (£119), Yamaha 440rds 6.1 receiver (£180), couple of Musical Fidelity MC4s ('borrowed'), Mission M7C1 centre speaker (£50) and Mission 71i's (£60 a pair) - no subwoofer as the MC4's can shake the room and worry the neighbours without. So, for about £1200 including cables, we've got the whole kit and kaboodle. We could have thrown that and more at a large TV alone and we wouldn't have had anything like the same fun and wow factor.
     
  25. LV426

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    I still recommend that a 16x9 device will be a better choice, if your viewing is primarily widescren.
     
  26. MikeD

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    I tend to agree with Chris M, I almost went for the IBM Ilv300 clone a while back when it was much cheaper than the X1, in the end I decided to go for the more expensive and higher spec Optoma H30, I have no real problems with rainbows and much prefer the look of DLP to LCD.

    Infocus have sold a great deal of X1's and there are many favourable reports from satisfied owners on forums such as AVS.

    Also remember that the X1 and clones also benefit from the superb Faroudja DCDI interlacing which is a major point in their favour.

    When I was looking at the IBM clone the warranty was 3 years, if it's still so you'd get a great deal of peace of mind for a relatively small additional outlay.

    I would strongly suggest you demo an X1 and see if it's to your liking, make a nuisance of yourself and spend as much time as you can with it before deciding.

    Regards, MikeD
     

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