Is 13 billion on the Olympics wise?

B12

Banned
I thought it was 13 million, but 13 billion is rearer the mark.

13 Billion !!!!!!!!!!

What the H*ll? We are flat broke the Tory's tell us, they have the power and expenditure to stop this nonsense, but wont, what the hell is so important about Olympic games over fuel poverty this winter? don't tell me its for tourism income, that's just a one trick pony for this fallacy.

Our current Government lie through their teeth for what they want, did the Royal wedding not make us money, that's what they were telling us, but an earlier fiscal excuse this year for the poor economy (apart from blaming Labour again) was the Royal wedding ... I kid you not, they cant have it both ways ***.

13 bloody BILLION on a game stinks however you paint it up, sure it would be embarrassing if our Government fessed up and said, "sorry guys, we cant afford this because of the unexpected global economy crisis" but ultimately we would have far more credibility with our precious credit rating by knocking this on the head than going ahead bull headed with this white elephant.

Is the Olympic Games so pig headed important that nothing else matters for future country's decisions to hold this? I don't think so ... it cost us bloody billions just to fight for the right to hold this waste of money.

Whats all this about Cameron telling us a one day strike is irresponsible and would cost us dearly, but a day off that presumably cost us more for the Royal Wedding was OK, we were told it would make us cash, but they are now blaming this for part of the slump in growth? Holy Hell, if that's right, what will be the full impact of the Olympic Games aftermath?

Were we too far ahead for the Nimrod program to be scrapped? apparently not, but it seems we cant stop this nonsense jugernaut now its rolling.

Olympic Games? for the love of God, folk are going to die from fuel poverty in this country this winter. Is it worth it?

Just the security costs for this farce is grim reading ...

The final bill for security during the Olympic Games will probably not be known until long after the flame at Stratford has gone out.

One number we can be certain of is £1.265bn. That is the amount of money spent and budgeted for to secure the London 2012 Games since 2007.

That figure includes:

£475m for policing and wider security, which was reduced from £600m in 2010 following a review by Dame Pauline Neville Jones.

£282m for venue security. This is the element of the budget which is currently subject to a review, more of which in a moment.

£270m for securing the Olympic Park during construction.

£238m for security contingency.

We are flat broke ***, is just one death of a pensioner this winter worth this white elephant of games this year? I'm sure as the global recession takes a grip and following country's will take serious looks at this uncertainness expenditure and cull it ... and so they should, but our pig headed Government cant look further than blaming Labour for all its problems.

Rinse and repeat.
 
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Desmo

Distinguished Member
I'm not all for the Olympics but, as a nation, you can't just decide to dump something as big as this. Internationally it would do far more damage than keeping it going. And why are you blaming the Tories? Labour were in charge when the bid was put in AND they knew how bad our finances were at the time.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
I think it is great that this country is hosting the Olympic games - the cost is fairly small in the grand scheme of things.
 

sidicks

Banned
I thought it was 13 million, but 13 billion is rearer the mark.

13 Billion !!!!!!!!!!

What the H*ll? We are flat broke the Tory's tell us, they have the power and expenditure to stop this nonsense, but wont, what the hell is so important about Olympic games over fuel poverty this winter? don't tell me its for tourism income, that's just a one trick pony for this fallacy.

Our current Government lie through their teeth for what they want, did the Royal wedding not make us money, that's what they were telling us, but an earlier fiscal excuse this rear for the poor economy (apart from blaming Labour again) was the Royal wedding ... I kid you not, they cant have it both ways ***.

13 bloody BILLION on a game stinks however you paint it up, sure it would be embarrassing if our Government fessed up and said, "sorry guys, we cant afford this because of the unexpected global economy crisis" but ultimately we would have far more credibility with our precious credit rating by knocking this on the head than going ahead bull headed with this white elephant.

Is the Olympic Games so pig headed important that nothing else matters for future country's decisions to hold this? I don't think so ... it cost us bloody billions just to fight for the right to hold this waste of money.

Whats all this about Cameron telling us a one day strike is irresponsible and would cost us dearly, but a day off that presumably cost us more for the Royal Wedding was OK, we were told it would make us cash, but they are now blaming this for part of the slump in growth? Holy Hell, if that's right, what will be the full impact of the Olympic Games aftermath?

Were we too far ahead for the Nimrod program to be scrapped? apparently not, but it seems we cant stop this nonsense jugernaut now its rolling.

Olympic Games? for the love of God, folk are going to die from fuel poverty in this country this winter. Is it worth it?

Just the security costs for this farce is grim reading ...

The final bill for security during the Olympic Games will probably not be known until long after the flame at Stratford has gone out.

One number we can be certain of is £1.265bn. That is the amount of money spent and budgeted for to secure the London 2012 Games since 2007.

That figure includes:

£475m for policing and wider security, which was reduced from £600m in 2010 following a review by Dame Pauline Neville Jones.

£282m for venue security. This is the element of the budget which is currently subject to a review, more of which in a moment.

£270m for securing the Olympic Park during construction.

£238m for security contingency.

We are flat broke ***, is just one death of a pensioner this winter worth this white elephant of games this year? I'm sure as the global recession takes a grip and following country's will take serious looks at this uncertainness expenditure and cull it ... and so they should, but our pig headed Government cant look further than blaming Labour for all its problems.

Rinse and repeat.

I can't believe you are trying to blame the Tories for this!!

It was under Labour that the contracts were signed and the costs escalated out of control!!

The current government (Coalition, nor Tory, by the way) have their hands tied by the previous agreements in place.

:suicide:
Sidicks
 

B12

Banned
And why are you blaming the Tories? Labour were in charge when the bid was put in AND they knew how bad our finances were at the time.

True, Labour were in charge when this bid was submitted, I'm as guilty of Labour bashing as well as Tory bashing :) Politics stinks IMHO and I rarely discuss these matters, i like better to focus on the good things in life ... but I've ventured here now and i guess I'd best answer at least a couple of questions regarding my initial post


I'm not all for the Olympics but, as a nation, you can't just decide to dump something as big as this. Internationally it would do far more damage than keeping it going.

Why cant we decide as a nation to dump it? because its so big you say ... I hear you, but how big is fuel poverty ... apparently its right down there in our list of prioritys compared to this ... the magnificent Olympic Games.

I hear what you are saying, I just feel we as a nation have our priority's wrong and I'm fed up of other nations dictating what we should do ... especially a farce as the Olympic Games when we have far more urgent national matters that need attending to.

The Olympic games is a *one trick* 13 billion pony IMHO ... I'd much rather see 13 billion spent or invested in future industry than this.

As much as I love Sport, this is a massive waste of much needed cash IMHO.
 

Cliff

Distinguished Member
Labour knew that it was going to cost a fortune when we bid and the public should know by now that as a rule of thumb you multiply any government estimate by ten.

Personally I was never very interested but my attitude was always; we have won and now we have a responsiblity to put on a damn good show. We must stop moaning or worse get cold feet. We committed ourselves to this project.

There were other countries, notably France that felt they "was robbed" . We have to show them at least, that as a nation, we are 100% behind the games.
 

B12

Banned
I can't believe you are trying to blame the Tories for this!!

It was under Labour that the contracts were signed and the costs escalated out of control!!

The current government (Coalition, nor Tory, by the way) have their hands tied by the previous agreements in place.

:suicide:
Sidicks

OK, successive government's are equally responsible.

I'm just fed up of seeing fanatical Tory Boys (and I'm not including you in this) blaming a previous government all the time for current failings ... Yes David Cameron, we get your point about how crap Labour were, but blaming them all the time for your failings and a Global failing that was inevitable is getting a bit monotonous .. where I come from the buck stops at the top and playing the blame game seems like desperate measures.

I'm glad you agree at least that costs have escalated out of control, but so did part of our defence program, the Nimrod program and our future carrier capability made embarrassingly low in times when we probably need a military more ... we will fight to the death over oil it seems but budget cut to extremes our troops who are given this thankless task.

And this brings me right back to the bloody Olympic Games again, we are flat broke, we should just say so, we cant afford this, any tourism boost is just for a moment ... I'd much rather see that 13 billion invested wisely in our industry ... we cant afford this gimmick.

Its time to get real IMHO.
 

B12

Banned
Labour knew that it was going to cost a fortune when we bid and the public should know by now that as a rule of thumb you multiply any government estimate by ten.

Personally I was never very interested but my attitude was always; we have won and now we have a responsiblity to put on a damn good show. We must stop moaning or worse get cold feet. We committed ourselves to this project.

There were other countries, notably France that felt they "was robbed" . We have to show them at least, that as a nation, we are 100% behind the games.

I hear what you say, but I'll go one step further, if as the current news is correct, we should be looking at a sort of Force Majure step, we should be thinking outside of the box, we cant afford all this money on a precious ceremony just because its tradition, we should make a new mould and stop this nonsense ... if things are as bad as our current government say they are then they should be taking more responsible steps to stop wasting money ... and we can say what we like here, but some pensioners are going to die this winter over fuel poverty, when we can **** this amount of of cash up against a wall ... with no return its just criminal IMHO.
 

Sonic67

Banned
The stadiums are almost finished. Did you think we'd get the money back?
 

BISHI

Well-known Member
The last time we held the games it was during post ww2 austerity............ just our luck to be in the same position yet again....!
I hope that in the long term the expense of the games will at least break even.
I am hoping that it will attract many visitors from the emerging economic nations into Britain for the summer - hotel prices have already doubled and more for the dates around the games and if as many Russian, Chinese and South American tourists arrive to watch them as i am hoping it could be a really good showcase for the UK and a boost for our coffers....................of course they could come and leave thinking how over rated and over expensive it is..!
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
They moaned about the Millenium dome, and the new Wembley arena.Both went well over budget and both have been put to good use.I accept Olympics is a grossly expensive as well and I am sure that if the politicians who decided to bid for it had known we would be in this crisis now, they most likely would not have gone ahead.As it is we are committed to it. It has provided a huge number of jobs , not least the new rail link, plus there will no doubt be positives in the future as a knock on effect of these games.For me the cup is half full not half empty
 

B12

Banned
Thinking aloud here ... I think part of our problem in the UK is our worship of Celebrity's Royalty and tradition, we are conditioned to accept this with out asking

Celebs
I get to a certain extent, but why do we put them on such a pedestal? ... I think as a nation we are grovellers :)

Royalty ... I know I'm going to go against the grain here, but we could do without them, they are all apparently inbred, sure they bring in money for tourism but I'm not convinced their income supports what we spend on them any-more ... I spend some time on global chat rooms and whenever the subject of the royals comes up, it always a joke discussion ... and I cant blame them ... the world is changing, we should adapt, we don't need ponce's as a national figurehead any more...frankly I find the Royals embarrassing to the extreme.

Tradition: A lot of what we do is because of it, but we should really question ourselves and we should at least stop and say ... why do we still do this? IMHO, part of our mission in life is to improve, to make our next generation better .. for one reason or another we have stagnated and I'm not sure how to kick start the Human race again.
 

B12

Banned
The last time we held the games it was during post ww2 austerity............ just our luck to be in the same position yet again....!

I know! You'd think we would have learned a lesson, but it seems each successive Government has to learn history lessons afresh.

I hope that in the long term the expense of the games will at least break even.
I am hoping that it will attract many visitors from the emerging economic nations into Britain for the summer - hotel prices have already doubled and more for the dates around the games and if as many Russian, Chinese and South American tourists arrive to watch them as i am hoping it could be a really good showcase for the UK and a boost for our coffers....................of course they could come and leave thinking how over rated and over expensive it is..!

I hope so too, but its high hopes and we should not be pushing our much needed investment money on Hopes, it would be better put to our Industry helping the fuel poverty that blights our mighty nation ... sadly, we cant look further than a few months as a species never mind years or decades :(
 

pandemic

Well-known Member
£13 billion spent to regenerate a quite a large area is money well spent and if correctly done should provide years of usability for the area.
The only thing I've been annoyed at (so far) is the sale of the Olympic village to the Qataris at below cost, stupid considering the amount property sells for in London. They are going to make a 'killing' on it.
 

B12

Banned
£13 billion spent to regenerate a quite a large area is money well spent and if correctly done should provide years of usability for the area.
The only thing I've been annoyed at (so far) is the sale of the Olympic village to the Qataris at below cost, stupid considering the amount property sells for in London. They are going to make a 'killing' on it.

Oh OK then :rolleyes: I'm sure the pensioners who will die a cold lonely death this winter due to more important priority's this country has will appreciate your comment.

You're as bad and insensitive as Clarkson for not having a clue and opening a big mouth when it should have stayed shut.

More power to you.

EDIT: Oh and do you really believe the regeneration excuse we are force fed? if so more fool you.
 
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johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
So how much of that £13 Bn is not being spent in the UK? As Pandemic points out, its also a huge regeneration project, buildings and infra-structure that will last way beyond the end of the games. If you want to criticise government spending why not go after the aircraft carriers, one of which will be built and immediately mothballed and the other apparently will be ready by 2030 and capable of operating 5 american aircraft. That whole farce will not come in much cheaper and provide effectively nothing in return.

The Olympics, massive regeneration, shed loads of tourism and tv rights, high profile showcase, all for £13Bn. Sounds like a good deal to me.
 

pandemic

Well-known Member
Oh OK then :rolleyes: I'm sure the pensioners who will die a cold lonely death this winter due to more important priority's this country has will appreciate your comment.

You're as bad and insensitive as Clarkson for not having a clue and opening a big mouth when it should have stayed shut.

More power to you.

EDIT: Oh and do you really believe the regeneration excuse we are force fed? if so more fool you.

I don't think you understood my post in the slightest. I don't see how me being annoyed at the Qataris making money on the Olympic village paid for by us has got anything to do with pensioners?!
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
I don't think you understood my post in the slightest. I don't see how me being annoyed at the Qataris making money on the Olympic village paid for by us has got anything to do with pensioners?!

I got the impression it was your phrase 'make a killing' in response to a post with concerns over fuel poverty and possible deaths that irked B12's ire.
 

B12

Banned
I don't think you understood my post in the slightest. I don't see how me being annoyed at the Qataris making money on the Olympic village paid for by us has got anything to do with pensioners?!

I don't get how you don't understand charity begins at home?

I disagree about making money on a waste such as this, you cant see that for trees in the wood it seems ... there is profit and then there is obscene profit, at the end of the day its all money and my contention is its money that could have been spent much more wisely.

Pensioners or very poor will die this winter in this country due to fuel poverty, this is a fact we choose to ignore or gloss over because of certain higher priority's ...please wake up and smell the coffee, in time this will happen to you too.

Anyway ... I've been banging on a bit, I've made my point and came back to answer some questions at least ... I cant be accused of being a troll any-more :)

I'll bow out now, nobody agrees with me ... I've grown used to seeing contrary opinions whenever I post, but I've said it like I feel and I stand by my comments ... I could argue here forever .. but I wont :)

Cheers.
 

pandemic

Well-known Member
I got the impression it was your phrase 'make a killing' in response to a post with concerns over fuel poverty and possible deaths that irked B12's ire.

Point taken, but no my original post had nothing to do with pensioners. Even so I've never resorted to petty insults on threads here because I respect peoples right to a view.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
If you want to criticise government spending why not go after the aircraft carriers, one of which will be built and immediately mothballed and the other apparently will be ready by 2030 and capable of operating 5 american aircraft. That whole farce will not come in much cheaper and provide effectively nothing in return.
Criticising the aircraft carriers is equally ill-informed as criticising the Olympics IMHO. Aside from the Submarine production in Barrow, the production of the two carriers is currently the only major ship building project in the UK and is keeping the industry alive bridging the gap from the end of the Type 45 project to the start of the Type 26. Failure to build these ships would see thousands of people out of work and a massive UK industry fall by the wayside. It would also mean we would have to look to abroad to purchase or procure future warships rather than, as is hoped, watching the next generaton Frigate become an export success.

I would also add the 'mothball' concept has been massively understood by media and lay person alike. It is what the Navy has been doing for years to keep Ships of the same class running. FYI the current plan for the carriers is this...

- By 2018: HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH enters service as a helicopter carrier to replace HMS OCEAN. It will achieve operational capability in this role circa-2020.

- By 2022: HMS PRINCE OF WALES enters service fitted out as a fully capable multi-aircraft type platform capable of operating F18, F35, Chinook, Merlin and Lynx/Wildcat. At this time HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH will be 'mothballed' and used as spares to keep HMS PRINCE OF WALES running. As we have abolished our current carriers it will take around 10 years from this point to re-generate sufficient experience to achieve full operational capability (i.e. fixed wing) but will be operational much sooner (probably 2024) for helicopter ops.

-By 2025: HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH will commence her first refit and re-build to convert her into the same configuration as HMS PRINCE OF WALES.

- From 2030: HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH and HMS PRINCE OF WALES will alternate roles as 'operational carrier' whilst the other is acting as ready use spares and/or in refit. The 'mothballed' carrier will also contribute as a training and test platform.

The carriers are a major expense for sure - but they are also a huge boast to industry in this country and will form the hub of British Defence policy for the next 50 odd years. Even iff you were to cancel one and accept the fact you reduce carrier availability to circa-40%, you would save very little money because you will still need a full second stores inventory to support a single carrier.
 
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la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Oh OK then :rolleyes: I'm sure the pensioners who will die a cold lonely death this winter due to more important priority's this country has will appreciate your comment.

You're as bad and insensitive as Clarkson for not having a clue and opening a big mouth when it should have stayed shut.

More power to you.

EDIT: Oh and do you really believe the regeneration excuse we are force fed? if so more fool you.

take it easy, i dont think he was being insensitive:nono:
 

pandemic

Well-known Member
I don't get how you don't understand charity begins at home?

I disagree about making money on a waste such as this, you cant see that for trees in the wood it seems ... there is profit and then there is obscene profit, at the end of the day its all money and my contention is its money that could have been spent much more wisely.

Pensioners or very poor will die this winter in this country due to fuel poverty, this is a fact we choose to ignore or gloss over because of certain higher priority's ...please wake up and smell the coffee, in time this will happen to you too.

Anyway ... I've been banging on a bit, I've made my point and came back to answer some questions at least ... I cant be accused of being a troll any-more :)

I'll bow out now, nobody agrees with me ... I've grown used to seeing contrary opinions whenever I post, but I've said it like I feel and I stand by my comments ... I could argue here forever .. but I wont :)

Cheers.

Firstly, this post is about the Olympics. You only had a single paragraph about pensioners in the first post.
A question for you though, do you really believe the government would have spent that £13B on aiding the elderly on their fuel costs? because I don't.

Now we could just pay the bills for the elderly, but that is unsustainable. What needs doing here is something more efficient, some steps have been taken i.e. supplying the elderly with insulation. What is required is a some more 'innovation' until we reach a sustainable point. I'm not going to give a politician-like easy 'answer' or pose the obvious 'questions'. At least not without some sustainable way or theory on how it should be implemented.

I'm a realist, don't think/imply I'm ignorant about the troubles some pensioners go through. I'm well aware of the trouble people go through in poverty from the young to the old. I grew up in part of the country where over 90% of people lived below the poverty line, thankfully things have changes a lot in the last 20 years.

Maybe if you wanted to emphasise pensioners in this thread it should have been titled accordingly i.e. '£13B Olympic cost vs the elderly fuel poverty'.
 

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