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Irreversible

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by Jay2000, Sep 25, 2003.

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  1. Jay2000

    Jay2000
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    I have only just yesterday seen this film for the first time, and after reading old threads on this topic, whilst not wishing to dredge up old arguments, I feel I really must add my own opinion.

    First of all I was totally bemused by Pooch's views on this film (I seem to remember locking horns with him on a similar topic when Straw Dogs was released!)

    To say the rape scene in Irreversible wasnt shocking or authentic enough is utterly offensive. Being very close to someone who has actually been raped I can tell Pooch without a doubt the rape scene in Irreversible is about as harrowing and realistic a portrayal of rape as you will probably ever see on screen. I watched this film with my girlfriend and we are both very broad-minded people and not easily shocked or offended, but mid-way through this lenghthy scene my girlfriend muttered in a very quiet voice 'this is horrible...', and I had to agree. I absolutely applaud the director for treating this subject in the way he did, bringing home to viewers the horror of rape without sugar-coating it the way safe Hollywood pap tends to do.

    I'll be honest, I was dubious about this film during the first 5-10 mins, the erratic camera movements put me off completely but I stuck with it and was very glad I did. In retrospect, (to me at least) I think this sickly camera movement was a very good way of depicting the confusion and desperation of Marcus and Pierre in attempting to hunt down the rapist in a dark, seedy, nightclub (given that Marcus was already no doubt disorientated as he had been snorting coke not long previously.) They were in an environment totally alien to them and sick with anger.

    After seeing the film we actually went over the two key scenes again to check they had actually killed the right man and were shocked to discover they hadn't! I'm sure I'm right in this but the rapist appeared to be the guy with the open light-coloured shirt on who could be seen grinning after Pierre had killed the other man with the black t-shirt on. This to me made the story even more upsetting in that after embarking on a reckless , if understandable, act of retribution, the rapist appears to get off scot-free.

    The unconventional reverse-timeline employed in this film also highlighted to me the way in which a perfectly ordinary day can sometimes end up in chaos and tragedy.

    This was certainly not an easy film to watch but for Pooch to say he didn't 'enjoy' it, well.... Is anyone supposed to 'enjoy' it? What a crass word to use! I certainly didnt enjoy it in the normal sense of the word, but as an intelligent and thought provoking piece of cinema, I thoroughly applaud it. It's refreshing to see that some directors have the balls to make films such as these and wake us up to tat that we have been spoon-fed with by Hollywood.

    Oh, Pooch also said that an actress portraying a rape victim could not do the role justice in the same way he wouldnt expect a sighted person to be able to play a blind character or an actor to portray someone with a speech impediment. Can I just say Al Pacino in 'Scent of a Woman' and Ed Norton in 'Primal Fear'???

    Come on... :rolleyes:

    Jay
     
  2. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Jay,

    All the points you raise are fair, and I am happy to agree-to-disagree as to your oppinions.

    Ultimately, though, Noe was doing this film, not to raise awareness of the issue of rape, but to make money and to provoke people. So despite the fact that he is an arthouse movie maker, and has made intelligent films in the past, this (in my opinion) is not one of them.

    An intelligentfilm? Not really!

    Thought-provoking? Not especially!

    Noe's film is nothing more than a piece of titilation. The characters are horrible people, who don't deserve to be liked or cared for, by the audience. Yes, Monica Belluci's character is raped for nine minutes, and didn't deserve it, but Noe could have made a more effective comment on rape and being raped, in a more documentary-style fashion. Hainvg the lead male, bash somebody's brains out, is hardly scathing commentary on society, is it?! Or maybe, the message is revenge is okay

    Anyway, I'll leave it at that. You liked it. I didn't. That's it.

    Pooch
     
  3. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    On the nose Jay 2000. :smashin: Once again Pooch delivers further evidence that he hasn't a clue what this movie is about, so he's hardly in a position to pass comment on whether it is an "intelligent" movie or not.

    But then this is a person who thinks that "I Spit On Your Grave" has something valid to say on the subject of rape.

    Like I've said before Pooch, stick to the gore movies and leave films like "Irreversible" to the grown ups. It'll be less upsetting for you...
     
  4. Jay2000

    Jay2000
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    Pooch

    I fail to understand your logic at times, I really do. How can you possibly say this film is not thought provoking and says nothing about the society we live in? Did it not make you think for a single moment about what kind of society we live in that doesn't allow an attractive young woman to walk home at night without the fear of being raped and beaten? Did it not make you sit and consider how you may react in the place of Marcus and Pierre, had it been YOUR girlfriend who had been brutally attacked in this way?

    As for Noe making this film purely for financial gain, how do you come to that conclusion when this was a film that was always going to have very limited commercial success due to its uncomfortable subject matter and unconventional production. It's also terribly cynical of you to suggest that he made this film for titilation purposes as well. If that were the case he could have quite easily 'sexed-up' the rape scene to include close-up's, more nudity etc that often happens in Hollywood produced films. As it was, the camera stayed static for the entire scene in medium range shot, hardly titilating.

    As has been said by others, I believe you missed the point of this film entirley and I find it sad that there are obviously people out there that can watch this film and just discard it like you have, with absolutely no thought of the prevailing social conditions that made this film such a damning indictment on the times we live in.

    Jay
     
  5. Lex

    Lex
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  6. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Just reading through the previous threads and noticed this:

    The male lead, Vincent Cassell, did not bash the guy's brains out. Shows how carefully Pooch watched the movie, doesn't it?
     
  7. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Afternoon,

    Look, you two obviously feel that you both know best, and that this film is the absolute bees-knees, so to speak. Fine! I can accept that! Having only seen the film once, at the cinema, I can only comment on what I saw then, and not having had the chance to rewatch it via DVD or VHS, some of my facts about who did what to whom, et al, may be inaccurate. All I can do, is hold up my hand and say "Sorry, but I made an error, and got that name or fact wrong."

    However, both Jay and Pauley have tangled with me over this film in the past, and I'm getting bored at people immediately rushing to defend this film, because they opine that I am some kind of idiot who doesn't understand this film: that I am somehow too dumb, to childish to get what Noe is saying or trying to say.

    So, just leave it be, okay! :mad: If you want to think you know best, that's fine. I'm not going to try to claim that what I say or write is the only opinion on this film, and that it must be correct, and as far as I am aware, I have not ever claimed that. Is it really that big a deal if what I think happens to be so very different from you? So what, if I feel that "I Spit On Your Grave" works better for me, than for you?! :confused:

    Ultimately, you two both love "Irreversible", and I don't! That's it! Nothing more, nothing less.

    This argument that "Irreversible" is such a carefully dramatised anti-rape film is just balls! The characters are detestable, and hence, - for me at least - if you can't at least sympathise with the characters, let alone like them, then anything that happens to them has no emotional effect, and hence I don't care what happens be it rape, murder or whatever.

    The film, for me, was crap! I didn't like it! I didn't felt it made any points about rape, about society today, about men, or about revenge!

    Now give it a rest, for crying out loud! :mad: :mad:

    Pooch
     
  8. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Let me state unequivocally, that I am pleased to say "I Spit On Your Grave" doesn't "work" for me on any level or in any manner whatsoever. What is more, given the movie's agenda, I'd cross the street to avoid any person it "works" for...

    Who said that "Irreversible" is an anti-rape movie?

    Explain what is "detestable" about Monica Belluci's character? Or Vincent Cassell's for that matter?
     
  9. Ian J

    Ian J
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    My reading of your post is that contrary to your opening comment the whole purpose of your "review" was precisely to resurrect an old argument, otherwise why would you have constantly referred to Pooch's opinions all the way through what was supposed to be your own view of this film.

    As it seems that this thread no longer serves any useful purpose, in the absence of a DVD Talk moderator I will take the liberty of closing it.
     
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