Iraq

I can tell when I'm been baited ;)

I'm going to close for now , but will reopen in the morning when you can be kept an eye on

sleeping-smiley-009.gif

hmm youve just given me a brain fart

why not have a sub forum in general chat like the old Adult humour forum, which can be extended to sensitive subjects that automatically closes and reopens at certain times when the mods are expected to be asleep say closed from 11pm till 9am?

that way we can get all the sensitive/ likely to offend stuff out of general chat
 
Whatever the reasons were for going to war in the first place, as a nation we should be morally bound to give the men & and women that serve in the Armed Forces our 100% support; which is often lacking nowadays especially from out beloved Prime Minister!
I find it hypocritical for people to be supporting our soldiers engaged in a war that they fundamentally disagree with. Nevertheless it does seem quite common to be doing so.

That isn't to say that I blame the soldiers of course, as I understand that they have no choice in the matter.
 
I am halfway into C4's Monday night film and according to Mr Moore there are 1.3 billion reasons :)
If discussing Iraq doesn't get threads closed then bringing Michael Moore into it probably will :)

Fahrenheit 9/11 is quite a revealing insight into the 'American Dream' though.
 
If discussing Iraq doesn't get threads closed then bringing Michael Moore into it probably will :)

Fahrenheit 9/11 is quite a revealing insight into the 'American Dream' though.
Well I finished watching it last night

Some very compelling arguments brought up in the film. Amazing when you saw the scenes in the aftermath of the US election 2000 and how not one US senator stood up to protest. Also the senators at the end who avoided questions about sending their children to Iraq

But the thing in film that had the most effect was the images of the injured Iraqi's on the sides of the street and American soldiers repeatedly saying they do not know why no one likes them. Also the ending sequence with the mother of the soldier who died was very strong emotional stuff. For once I was grateful for ad breaks as the C4 announcer warned of possibly distressing scenes
 
Has law and order improved within Iraq?
Difficult to say, if you are to believe the media. Then no, a couple of bombs going off everyday isn't improved law and order.
Has life improved for the Iraq population?
Again difficult to say, but from what I read/seen/heard. No generally.
Has there been any benefit to the outside world?
Oil and lots of it.
Has the number of Iraq deaths reached too high a number?
I don't think any number of deaths (civilian) is acceptable, we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Has the financial cost to the UK, US and other nations reached too high a figure?
No idea, we aren't privvy to that kind of information, but I suspect it runs into trillions of dollars for the US and possible billions of pounds for the UK.
Has the number of deaths within the UK, US and other nations military reached too high a figure?
Any figure is too high.
And dare I ask the provocative question, were the Iraq people better off under Sadam?
Impossible to say, but with the added ability of hindsight, maybe yes.

We got involved in an illegal war, we along with the US ****ed up big style and now the majority of the middle east hate us. But we have to clean up our mess now, we can't just pull out.

Basically, Iraq and anything associated with it is a complete disaster.

Sad times. :(

@LFC_SL: I too watched the Michael Moore docu on CH4 last night. Lets just say it opened my eyes, to what a disaster the Bush administration really is.
 
@LFC_SL: I too watched the Michael Moore docu on CH4 last night. Lets just say it opened my eyes, to what a disaster the Bush administration really is.

...and how old is it now? time for an update as it seems to have gotten worse since it was made.
 
I find it hypocritical for people to be supporting our soldiers engaged in a war that they fundamentally disagree with. Nevertheless it does seem quite common to be doing so.

That isn't to say that I blame the soldiers of course, as I understand that they have no choice in the matter.

It's not hypocritical to support our soldiers, OK they shouldn't be there, but they've treated the Iraqi people with diginity and done us proud.
I bet the Iraqi death toll would have been a lot lower if the US weren't involved.....come to think of it........I bet the UK soldiers death toll would have been a lot lower without the US there.
 
is it me or is "Illegal War" one of the most :censored: up sayings invented this decade?

how can you have a bloody legal war? do you have to sign a contract with your opposer to say "right we are going to have a war, these are the terms and conditions"

the only one that comes close is "War Crimes"

talk about people feeding off the headlines. people that use these words are just stupid sheep eating what they are fed :suicide:

EDIT: I fully agree with Richard RE the death toll, i think the only sucessful kills against the allies have come from the americans... time and time again.

why dont they get locked up for "War Crimes" or some other stupid saying the rags can come up with
 
Apparently that's been shelved as he's focussing on other projects

@ couple posts above. I support our soldiers. They do not have a choice in what they are doing. They just do a job and do the country damn proud. I do oppose the principle behind the war though and the American administration. I think people on both sides should understand the distinction :)
 
is it me or is "Illegal War" one of the most :censored: up sayings invented this decade?

Yes it's oft repeated nonsense. People should really learn to think for themselves rather than 'cut and paste' their opinons from the op-ed pages in The Guardian, Independent & BBC.

There is no such thing as 'international law' either. You can have 'international agreement', but it aint law.
 
It's not hypocritical to support our soldiers, OK they shouldn't be there, but they've treated the Iraqi people with diginity and done us proud.
I just don't see how it is remotely possible to support someone doing something that you disagree with, however well they may be doing it. And I'm not about to draw any conclusions about how they may be treating anyone from reports in the British media either.
 
Some very compelling arguments brought up in the film. Amazing when you saw the scenes in the aftermath of the US election 2000 and how not one US senator stood up to protest. Also the senators at the end who avoided questions about sending their children to Iraq
Yes, there are many scenes that I hope would surprise and disturb people. Despite that the reaction from many people has been to shout as loudly as possible about biased reporting, and bury their heads in the sand of Republican support.

Bowling for Columbine is also quite an eye opener.
 
is it me or is "Illegal War" one of the most :censored: up sayings invented this decade?
Closely followed by the 'war on terror', which of course should be 'terrorism' if it is to make any sense at all.

And whilst 'illegal' is not the correct term, it obviously refers to the absence of a mandate from the UN Security Council which is probably the closest definition of legality you can have in that situation.
 
I just don't see how it is remotely possible to support someone doing something that you disagree with, however well they may be doing it. And I'm not about to draw any conclusions about how they may be treating anyone from reports in the British media either.

I thought the British media did report on our troops when they mistreated prisoners.....even when it wasn't true.
 
War of democracy :rotfl:

Democracy- (meaning) bomb innocent people till they come round to you way of thinking. If they don't come round to your way of thinking, call them terrorists and bomb them some more.
 
I thought the British media did report on our troops when they mistreated prisoners.....even when it wasn't true.
Indeed, which seems a pretty good reason not to be basing any opinions on their reporting.
 
Not Iraq but I found out tonight one of my mates is critically injured in Selly Oak hospital after being shot in Afghanistan.

As for Michael Moore and 9/11 here's an alternative view:

http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf
 

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