Iraq

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Phil57, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. Phil57

    Phil57
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    Firstly let me say that I supported the invasion of Iraq.....but now????

    Has law and order improved within Iraq?
    Has life improved for the Iraq population?
    Has there been any benefit to the outside world?
    Has the number of Iraq deaths reached too high a number?
    Has the financial cost to the UK, US and other nations reached too high a figure?
    Has the number of deaths within the UK, US and other nations military reached too high a figure?
    And dare I ask the provocative question, were the Iraq people better off under Sadam?
     
  2. mrtbag

    mrtbag
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    An hour maximum.:devil:
     
  3. Rich

    Rich
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    How could you have supported a war that was illegal in the first place.
    We invaded because of the WMD, we didn't find any, so we then decided that we invaded because Sadaam's killed alot of his own people.
    we've probrably killed twice as many Iraqii's as Sadaam by now.
    Why don't we invade somewhere like Congo, Rwanda Somalia or where ever there's genocide going on...........I bet it would be different if they had oil that the U.S. could use.


    I give it 1/2 hour :devil:
     
  4. Phil57

    Phil57
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    I'm sorry, but what has the legality of the invasion got to do with this thread?

    Yes I know the published reason for the invasion was to find the WMD's, I also along with most people (I think) realise the real reason was to topple Saddam.

    This thread was started to ask people the various questions, had their opinions changed over time, my opinion has certainly changed.

    PS: I think you have possibly exaggerated the ratio of killings. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Phil57

    Phil57
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    Over an hour now...............................:devil:
     
  6. Rich

    Rich
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    We shouldn't have been there in the first place, I think that's quite an important point.

    We were never told that was the reason for invading Iraq, the US and UK only said that because they were to embarrassed to admit they'd got it vey wrong.

    I don't think so, some reports say as much as 650,000 Iraqi deaths since the invasion.
     
  7. mrtbag

    mrtbag
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    In your opinion.
     
  8. Rich

    Rich
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    Did they find some WMD's I didn't know about?
     
  9. mrtbag

    mrtbag
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    Please re-read the part of your post I was responding to. It wasn't about the WMD's.
     
  10. Rich

    Rich
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    I'm sorry.................I do seem to turn into an Argumentive troll when I'm stuck at work on 12hr nights :thumbsdow
     
  11. mrtbag

    mrtbag
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    No problems. Obviously the WMD story was a load of rubbsh, but I'm sure I heard Bush/Blair mention removing Saddam from power as a reason quite early on (before we actually went in). I think it was because of his ties with Al-Queda.:D
     
  12. johntheexpat

    johntheexpat
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    One benefit is that it has concentrated the fight (Islamic radicals vs The west) to a great extent away from us. Lots and lots of radicals have travelled to Iraq to fight the US, rather than staying at home and 'fighting' in europe. A somewhat unpallatable benefit, but a benefit non-the-less.


    Was it ever really about WMD's. Before the invasion:

    Hussein was openly supporting the families of palestinian suicide bombers with money and praise. Presumably he was also supporting the bombers beforehand.
    He had dozens of long range missiles, the exact quantity was unknown, but we saw footage of some being destroyed in the desert in the months before the invasion (part 2). These missiles were capable of reaching Europe (it was always Turkey that was shown as the limit of the range.)
    Israel is closer to Iraq than Turkey.
    SH was capable of using WMDs, he had several practise runs against the Kurds, with Chlorine and or phosgene. Both are easy to make in huge quantities from readily available materials (never mix your toilet bleach and other cleaners because.....)


    So imagine a nightmare scenario. SH launches a couple of chlorine laden missiles against Tel Aviv.
    The next day a couple more. Israel retaliates with heavy bombing.
    The day after more arrive over Israel. And the day after and the day after etc. The great strategic advantage of chemical weapons like these is not the killing power, but the psychological effect.
    There is no way to stop the missiles being launched, because they are small mobile targets that rapidly change location.
    More and more land on Israel. There is no defence. How can there be?
    More land the day after. Blind panic, perhaps even a mounting death toll but the panic is the thing.
    How can Israel stop this?
    How can nuclear Israel stop this?
    Is there any worse scenario than Israel nuking a middle eastern country?
    But it didn't happen like that.
    Perhaps there was a reason to invade?
    It wasn't about oil. IMHO
     
  13. Steven

    Steven
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    I am halfway into C4's Monday night film and according to Mr Moore there are 1.3 billion reasons :)
     
  14. Rich

    Rich
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    [​IMG]

    I've gotta get myself another job :rolleyes:
     
  15. shahedz

    shahedz
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    that is quality:D
     
  16. Member 55145

    Member 55145
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    i think going in was a good thing to do right from the beginning.

    and i dont care if there was or wasnt wmds. all i know is that if i murdered someone and the police told me they will be searching my house in a few months id do my damn hardest to hide it :suicide:
     
  17. dBrowne

    dBrowne
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    The US did invade Somalia recently via its proxies the Ethiopians and with a bit air support from themselves in the south; not for oil, but to prevent a Muslim theocratic government from establishing itself. They must have figured that that was a fate worse than leaving it as an anarchic failed state.
     
  18. Phil57

    Phil57
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    Richard, you said "we've probably killed twice as many Iraqi's as Sadam by now"
    I take it by we you mean the allied military, who may I ask killed the number of people that you quote? I am pretty sure it was not the allied military.
     
  19. Phil57

    Phil57
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    Over three hours................:devil:
     
  20. Rich

    Rich
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    I can't figure out why we invaded Iraq because of WMD's, but nothing is done about Iran or N. Korea who seem/seemed to on the way to having nuclear weapons.
    Also who gives the right for one country to have Nuclear weapons and not another.
    I can't blame N. Korea or Iraq for wanting nuclear weapons, the US and Israel have got them and I think they'd be quite willing to use them in certain situations.
     
  21. Rich

    Rich
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    I bet most of these people would be alive if we hadn't of invaded.
     
  22. Phil57

    Phil57
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    Was that another way of saying.......'sorry I meant to say....................' ;)
     
  23. Rich

    Rich
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    OK....you're right.

    But I still think the coalition have killed many 1000's of innocent Iraqi's.

    I must say, although I don't think the UK should be there, our soldiers have been a credit to the country , it's shame you can't say the same for the US troops.
     
  24. dBrowne

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    We are not strong enough to do so. China would never countenance attacking NK anyway. Invading Iran would make Iraq look like a walk in the park.

    The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty which all countries, save India, Pakistan and Israel, are signatories to.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty
    Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  25. John

    John
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    I can tell when I'm been baited ;)

    I'm going to close for now , but will reopen in the morning when you can be kept an eye on

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Member 55145

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    hmm youve just given me a brain fart

    why not have a sub forum in general chat like the old Adult humour forum, which can be extended to sensitive subjects that automatically closes and reopens at certain times when the mods are expected to be asleep say closed from 11pm till 9am?

    that way we can get all the sensitive/ likely to offend stuff out of general chat
     
  27. dunks517

    dunks517
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    Whatever the reasons were for going to war in the first place, as a nation we should be morally bound to give the men & and women that serve in the Armed Forces our 100% support; which is often lacking nowadays especially from out beloved Prime Minister!
     
  28. Pat_C

    Pat_C
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    I find it hypocritical for people to be supporting our soldiers engaged in a war that they fundamentally disagree with. Nevertheless it does seem quite common to be doing so.

    That isn't to say that I blame the soldiers of course, as I understand that they have no choice in the matter.
     
  29. Pat_C

    Pat_C
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    If discussing Iraq doesn't get threads closed then bringing Michael Moore into it probably will :)

    Fahrenheit 9/11 is quite a revealing insight into the 'American Dream' though.
     
  30. Wild Weasel

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    There would have been an almighty bloodbath once 'Uncle Joe' Saddam had popped his clogs anyway.
     

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