IR Sensor / Pad for LED stair lights ( Pretty pictures inside )

onelife2000

Active Member
Hi,

I am starting a LED lighting project. I am going to edge light Frosted glass panels.

The LED lights are going to be embedded in a recess in the handrail which the glass slots into

I have all the lighting kit
4 x 5 m LED's - 5050 - 300leds Per M -
4 x 96W transformers
1 x RF controllers (+backups)
3 x Amps etc.
Connectors

What I really want to do is wire them up so they come on when someone walks up or down the stairs for say 1 minute afterwards.

So my questions are:

1. Can anyone recommend either..
A timed Pressure pad?
IR sensor with a tight beam?
timer for this?
So when someone steps on either the top or bottom step it will light the lot?

2. I need to work out some sort of circuit for this lot too - If anyone could help that would be great - it's pretty simple - just know that there is some crossover with dual switching that I would probably get wrong


I am a 3d artist by trade so have knocked up some render images of what it will look like.

stairs1.jpg


stairs2.jpg


stairs3.jpg


stairs6.jpg
 
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supraTTman

Banned
You'll need a timing kit like this. If you can use pressure pads (beneath carpet if you have one) it would be easier to knock up compared with IR beams/ultrasonic sensors that require 4 lots of wiring (2 senders & 2 receivers). The 2 pads would connect to the trigger input of the timer, then standing on either one will switch on the light show for an adjustable time. The timing kit relay output will trigger a beefier relay to power up all your PSU's ('transformers').

Are you using RGB strips or fixed colour (e.g. blue) strips? If RGB, do you plan to use an LED controller or just switch them on and off? With a controller you could have the lighting on different colours depending on which pressure mat triggered it! This does become substantially more complex, but not at all expensive.
 

Rick2102

Active Member
Hi supraTTman,

I am looking at a similar thing, putting 3 led mini spot lights in my hall in the skirting boards, up the stairs and in the skirting boards on the landing and basically just want them coming on for about 60 seconds at night. I was juts going to use PIR's for this. Is this not the best way?

Thanks, Rick.
 

supraTTman

Banned
I was juts going to use PIR's for this. Is this not the best way?
Thanks, Rick.
The problem with PIR's is that they are large-ish white ugly boxes on your wall, and these will also respond to folks walking in the hallway, landing etc. as well as on the stairs - unless you modify the Fresnel lens, to narrow the beam angle:thumbsdow - this may be acceptable in your application but not for onelife2000's app. But they do usually have a light-level sensor to disable the lighting during day-time usage:smashin:. The timer circuit would need extra 'intelligence' to accomplish this day-time inhibit function - simple to design - if you know what you're doing:eek:.
 
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Rick2102

Active Member
The problem with PIR's is that they are large-ish white ugly boxes on your wall, and these will also respond to folks walking in the hallway, landing etc. as well as on the stairs - unless you modify the Fresnel lens, to narrow the beam angle:thumbsdow - this may be acceptable in your application but not for onelife2000's app. But they do usually have a light-level sensor to disable the lighting during day-time usage:smashin:. The timer circuit would need extra 'intelligence' to accomplish this day-time inhibit function - simple to design - if you know what you're doing:eek:.

As am putting in a false ceiling in hall and landing was basically going to leave just the sensor part on show in the ceiling so looks neater as want one with day/night settings but then makes accessibility harder.

Ok, will look into it, and will be in touch :smashin:
 

supraTTman

Banned
Love the look of the edge lit panels!
These are just computer images. I have been experimenting for a few months with edge-lit glass using RGB /White LED strips on various shelves/panels following several enquiries.

The results are far, far from anything like the computer images shown by the OP for 3 reasons:

1). Light transmission from the light source (in our case an LED strip) to an optical media (in our case a glass staircase panel) is very hit & miss unless these have both been mechanically & optically 'tailored' for this purpose.

2). Recessing the strip into the balcony will not produce the nice lateral lighting effects on the walls shown in the computer images, because the strip beam angle will be reduced from 120 degrees to 40-50 degrees depending on the depth of the recess, which must be sufficiently large to hide the light sources (LED's)

3). The individual LED beams will be visible as discrete lighting sources unless an acrylic (or similar ) diffuser is used in front of the LED strip, thereby increasing further the recess required of the LED strip, and hence reducing the beam angle, and hence reducing the lateral wall lighting. :(

Need to dig out my Uni. optical lecture notes to fix this one !! :boring:

.
 
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onelife2000

Active Member
supraTTman said:
These are just computer images. I have been experimenting for a few months with edge-lit glass using RGB /White LED strips on various shelves/panels following several enquiries.

The results are far, far from anything like the computer images shown by the OP for 3 reasons:

1). Light transmission from the light source (in our case an LED strip) to an optical media (in our case a glass staircase panel) is very hit & miss unless these have both been mechanically & optically 'tailored' for this purpose.

2). Recessing the strip into the balcony will not produce the nice lateral lighting effects on the walls shown in the computer images, because the strip beam angle will be reduced from 120 degrees to 40-50 degrees depending on the depth of the recess, which must be sufficiently large to hide the light sources (LED's)

3). The individual LED beams will be visible as discrete lighting sources unless an acrylic (or similar ) diffuser is used in front of the LED strip, thereby increasing further the recess required of the LED strip, and hence reducing the beam angle, and hence reducing the lateral wall lighting. :(

Need to dig out my Uni. optical lecture notes to fix this one !! :boring:

.


Does need to be pretty thick 10 - 12 mm have a look at my other posts to see my installed kitchen splashback. Thicker the glass the more refraction/bounce - the further the light appears down the glass

The glass diffuses and creates ambient light. It's a acid etched glass. wall wash lighting is created by the ambient glow. Not sure what you mean by lateral wall lighting? It is probably a bit overblown though the 3d is using real light physics and correct power outputs

However the test I have done on the just the 2m landing glass with a strip covered with a plastic U profile the light fades but reaches the bottom and fills the entire hall with colour

Low ion glass is a must to avoid tint.

Also the deeper the groove the better
1. Covers up the initial led 'beams'
2. Projects the beam directly down the glass. I am coating the groove with tinfoil for more reflection. Raises the brightness by about 20%

Will install it when I can work out the best way to trigger it all.
 

supraTTman

Banned
Does need to be pretty thick 10 - 12 mm have a look at my other posts to see my installed kitchen splashback. Thicker the glass the more refraction/bounce - the further the light appears down the glass

The glass diffuses and creates ambient light. It's a acid etched glass. wall wash lighting is created by the ambient glow. Not sure what you mean by lateral wall lighting? It is probably a bit overblown though the 3d is using real light physics and correct power outputs

However the test I have done on the just the 2m landing glass with a strip covered with a plastic U profile the light fades but reaches the bottom and fills the entire hall with colour

Low ion glass is a must to avoid tint.

Also the deeper the groove the better
1. Covers up the initial led 'beams'
2. Projects the beam directly down the glass. I am coating the groove with tinfoil for more reflection. Raises the brightness by about 20%

Will install it when I can work out the best way to trigger it all.
Very useful information. My disappointing results used 10mm wide 60 LED/m strip (RGB & white - both with IP65 coating which distances the LED sources from the glass) attached to the edge of the glass. I tried a 6mm smoked glass shelf on my hifi stack and a 10mm vertical glass panel on my outdoor balcony. The light transmission was very poor - the convex edges of the glass probably didn't help either. Clearly there is a fair amount of effort required to perfect edge-lid glass displays. Your tinfoil idea makes a lot of sense - focusses the beam angle down from 120 degrees to where it's needed. Good work - look forward to some actual piccies (no Photoshopping allowed!!). Good luck.:thumbsup:

If you can use pressure mats (assuming you can hide beneath a carpet) it makes life a lot easier. The timer module I mentioned earlier is quite easy to configure. Much more discrete than PIR 'lumps'.
 
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onelife2000

Active Member
Very useful information. My disappointing results used 10mm wide 60 LED/m strip (RGB & white - both with IP65 coating which distances the LED sources from the glass) attached to the edge of the glass. I tried a 6mm smoked glass shelf on my hifi stack and a 10mm vertical glass panel on my outdoor balcony. The light transmission was very poor - the convex edges of the glass probably didn't help either. Clearly there is a fair amount of effort required to perfect edge-lid glass displays. Your tinfoil idea makes a lot of sense - focusses the beam angle down from 120 degrees to where it's needed. Good work - look forward to some actual piccies (no Photoshopping allowed!!). Good luck.:thumbsup:


OK... So nearly a year later... I have finally got round to getting this done.

Oak Cladding old newel posts and Very Chunky Oak Rails

10mm Toughened Satin Low-ion Glass. Went for frosted as will not pick up marks ( when I have cleaned all the sawdust off it!! )

3 x 5 m 5050 60 LED's Per Metre

1 x 96W waterproof Power pack ( didn't need 4!!!) just so it's silent and no dust holes really.

1 x wireless Controller. Will updated this with a iPhone controlled one when they become available.

We routed it all out so you can lift out all the glass and Service the LED's if needed with some service Clads on the newel posts All the wiring runs in grooves behind the 5mm Oak clad.

As requested - unphotoshoped pics...

Note the - The colour wash is more even than it appears in the picture and the Glass needs a good clean! The iPhone seems to pick up a lot of noise in the LEDs that the eye doesn't

I might replace these images with decent DSLR images when it's 100% complete

One thing to note is that DEEP reds and Greens show up better than then blues

stairsled02.jpg


stairsled03.jpg


stairsled04.jpg


stairsled06.jpg


stairsled07.jpg


stairsled09.jpg


stairsled10.jpg
 
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supraTTman

Banned
Excellent job onelife2000.:clap:

Following my disastrous results earlier, you have re-kindled my enthusiasm into experimentation with edge-lit glass lighting. :thumbsup:
This an area that I am keen to get into.

I see what you mean with dirty glass - the lighting emphasises this hugely - hope you don't have kids!!

A decent DSLR camera will illustrate your fine results as you won't get the white halo on all your photos taken with a naff mobile phone camera - these mobile devices simply cannot handle highly saturated colours as the camera CCD sensor overloads - blue and purple particularly difficult . I spent over £500 on my Canon EOS 550 for my Gallery photos.

So I guess the frosted glass diffuses the individual LED's so you don't see the beams - great idea.

Do you think that low-ion glass makes all the diifference between naff results - as I got - and great results as you have achieved?
 

DrXerox

Active Member
OK... So nearly a year later... I have finally got round to getting this done.

Oak Cladding old newel posts and Very Chunky Oak Rails

10mm Toughened Satin Low-ion Glass. Went for frosted as will not pick up marks ( when I have cleaned all the sawdust off it!! )

3 x 5 m 5050 60 LED's Per Metre

1 x 96W waterproof Power pack ( didn't need 4!!!) just so it's silent and no dust holes really.

1 x wireless Controller. Will updated this with a iPhone controlled one when they become available.

We routed it all out so you can lift out all the glass and Service the LED's if needed with some service Clads on the newel posts All the wiring runs in grooves behind the 5mm Oak clad.

As requested - unphotoshoped pics...

Note the - The colour wash is more even than it appears in the picture and the Glass needs a good clean! The iPhone seems to pick up a lot of noise in the LEDs that the eye doesn't

I might replace these images with decent DSLR images when it's 100% complete

One thing to note is that DEEP reds and Greens show up better than then blues
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I have to say onelife2000 this all looks very impressive and it has inspired me to try something similar myself.

I think it would be easier for me to have the glass panels light from the bottom. It would be easier to hide the cabling. Do you think the effect would be as good?

Also could you tell me if you got the glass from a local glass merchant? I would imagine it was special order. If you don't mind could you give me a rough cost of the glass?

Richard Burbage do a staircase called Immix which uses pre cut glass panels. But it would be awkward to get them space nicely in my staircase. I would also hope the a local merchant could supply glass more competitively.
 

Goj

Standard Member
Hi

This looks great. Thinking of doing something similiar.

Can you advise what sensor or pressure pad you used. I would like to have on a timer in the evening. But switches to the sensor of a night. Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks
 

onelife2000

Active Member
Hi

This looks great. Thinking of doing something similiar.

Can you advise what sensor or pressure pad you used. I would like to have on a timer in the evening. But switches to the sensor of a night. Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks

I've still yet to do that sensor.

I would need 6 pads / sensors to trigger a timer. Still no luck finding the best thing to use and hiding all the wires might be an issue.

Also no idea how to wire that lot up!
 

Explosive

Standard Member
Hi, have been keeping watch on the progress with the LED project- even from photo's I think it's pretty impressive, I'm a LED fanattic to say the least and have completed many projects in my time, see below

.http://www.avforums.com/forums/attachment.php?=1&d=1371383987

http://www.avforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=403942&stc=1&d=1371384129


Think I might be able to help with the sensor situation, quick and easy way is with a micro pir. It works with motion detection, are normally adjustable with regards to range/time duration and light level adjustment for operation.

At roughly 20-25 mm it would be barely visible if mounted in to one of the strings (sides of the staircase) or kick board, just fit one at both the top and bottom of the staircase to be lit, link both tougether (with mains rated cabling) and connect the switch line (output from the pir's) to the input of your low voltage LED power supply.

Micro PIR Cabinet Sensor Switch - QVS Electrical Supplies | Electrical Wholesaler

Or
P.I.R SENSOR SWITCH C/W REMOTE SENSOR

Or if you want an invisible detector maybe look at a microwave occupancy detector- they can be fitted in void spaces e.g under the tread of the staircase and the sensitivity can be adjusted to activate only when something is detected on the approach to or actually on the stairs itself.

There is plenty of options available on the market, it's just a case of picking the right type for the environment where it's to be installed.

Hope this is of some help

Regard's
Martin
 

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harvy

Standard Member
Hi onelife2000,

Great work with the edge lighting,

I'm wanting to do something similar when i get round to renovating, any chance you can detail your setup a little more? in terms of how you have edge lit - distances, materials between the led strip and the glass, the way the edge is finished on the glass, where the edge lighting is on the kitchen splashback etc? (I know I'm asking alot!)

In terms of your switching, possibly using LDR/laser light setup in some form? the laser shining across the bottom step, towards the other side of the step where the LDR is, with a relay carrying out the 12v switching? some form of capacitor to keep the relay energized for a predetermined time?
 

onelife2000

Active Member
Hi onelife2000,

Great work with the edge lighting,

I'm wanting to do something similar when i get round to renovating, any chance you can detail your setup a little more? in terms of how you have edge lit - distances, materials between the led strip and the glass, the way the edge is finished on the glass, where the edge lighting is on the kitchen splashback etc? (I know I'm asking alot!)

In terms of your switching, possibly using LDR/laser light setup in some form? the laser shining across the bottom step, towards the other side of the step where the LDR is, with a relay carrying out the 12v switching? some form of capacitor to keep the relay energized for a predetermined time?

Hey sorry for the long delay. Wasn't getting notifications for some reason..

Thickness is the main thing 10mm or better.
The glass need to be low ion.
The kitchen splashback is white gloss painted on one side.
The edges are polished and arrissed ( bevelled ) to make smooth.
The Led are sitting directly on the Edge of the glass with a mirror tape ( 15mm wide ) That just goes over the front of the glass.

Ideally though I would have had the LEDs coming from the bottom. But the connector broke in the kitchen installation and it was impossible to redo... or you could light all the way round.

One thing I have done is bought decent Power supply

LedLightDepot - 12V 100w LED Waterproof Power Supplies 12V dc 8,5A

Just seen that Phillips Hue have some new lights out now too.

Lightscaping at home with Philips' Hue LightStrips and Bloom (hands-on video)

Stand Alone, Striplights and their screw in bulbs - it's a shame they don't do more connectors types - bayonet / gu10 etc.
.
 

onelife2000

Active Member
Think I might be able to help with the sensor situation, quick and easy way is with a micro pir. It works with motion detection, are normally adjustable with regards to range/time duration and light level adjustment for operation.

Micro PIR Cabinet Sensor Switch - QVS Electrical Supplies | Electrical Wholesaler

Or
P.I.R SENSOR SWITCH C/W REMOTE SENSOR

Or if you want an invisible detector maybe look at a microwave occupancy detector- they can be fitted in void spaces e.g under the tread of the staircase and the sensitivity can be adjusted to activate only when something is detected on the approach to or actually on the stairs itself.

There is plenty of options available on the market, it's just a case of picking the right type for the environment where it's to be installed.

Hope this is of some help

Regard's
Martin

Thanks for that - will look into them! Been busy on other more boring jobs like the garden.

Nice work on your Lights. Looks slick!
 

ReTrO

Well-known Member
I'm looking at doing a similar thing in my new place using Adafruit addressable LED strip so that I can trigger it from the top or bottom of the stairs and have the LEDs come on in the appropriate sequence. I've got 2 mini curtain PIR sensors for the triggering and will hook them into an Arduino Uno for the control bit. Got to work out a way to integrate it via ethernet with my Helvar and RTI systems next. :)
 

Geps

Well-known Member
Be careful of the current draw Richard on those strips as they use alot more than the nonaddressable ones.

I have a 5m addressable strip run up my stairs that I fixed to aluminium profile with a hole drilled in the back so I can put power taps in every metre.

They look alot cleaner IMO than the separate lights on steps that other systems tend to use.
 

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