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ipod 30Gb photo V Creative m Vision

RobTi

Well-known Member
Okay i need some help here i can get the ipod refurbished for £145 or the creative for £185 new which one to go for?
Will mainly be used in car for and occasionaly connected to home amp

Thanks
Robert
 

smashed

Well-known Member
Hi,

I think you will find these 2 models discussed against each other in various threads in this forum.
I suggest you search and see if it answers your question :thumbsup:
 

RobTi

Well-known Member
The Reason Im Asking Is Because The I-Pod Is Down In Price And Not Botherin About Radio But The Video Would Be Nice. Is The I-Pod A Bargain At This Price Or Will I Pay Extra For The Creative?:lease:
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
The iPod has a better interface (the click-wheel is unsurpassed imo) and has the street appeal that the ZVM can't match (the ZVM is probably twice as thick as the iPod if that bothers you). However, the ZVM is a very competent player (if it wasn't I wouldn't own one) and it's video functionality is superb - it plays divx files which is a god send for me and superbly outputs to TV too. It may be worth pointing out that a new iPod is expected in the next few months at which point the current iPod range is likely to drop in price.

If you're asking whether the ZVM is worth £185, then my answer would be absolutely!
 

RobTi

Well-known Member
Thanks for the reply.
I couldn't make my mind up between the two even after reading the previous posts, but i seen that the ipod refurbished is down to £145 and was looking for some help if that was too good an offer to miss or is the creative still a better buy at £40 more?
Thanks
Robert
 

extremelydodgy

Active Member
Depends on if you like to squint often at a 2.5" screen, whether you download most of your footage in DivX / XVid format and whether you need a crappy voice recorder. If you don't, the iPod is superior in most other respects.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
extremelydodgy said:
Depends on … whether you need a crappy voice recorder.
Why do you say crappy? I find it quite competent , not as good as my previous iRiver H320 which allowed more flexibility in setting compression rates etc but still does the job fine.

extremelydodgy said:
If you don't, the iPod is superior in most other respects.
Imo, iPod's superiority lies in its design, UI and itunes software. However, the Zen offers the following over the iPod:

Better battery life
Better video support
Better screen
FM Radio (recordable)
Voice Recorder

They are different machines that offer different functionality, it just depends what's important to you.
 

extremelydodgy

Active Member
Different strokes of course - but I found the Creative much worse in comparison to the iAudio / iRiver etc for voice recording due not only to the significantly inferior (and fixed) recording bitrate, but also due to the relatively poor mic, which seems to have quite a pronounced logarithmic falloff in recording capablility vs distance. And we aren't talking huge distances - just for recording both sides of a conference table. It's on balance actually slightly worse than even the Griffin iTalk on 3rd Gen iPods, which uses half the recording bitwidth - the mic is probably the equaliser in this instance. Regardless of whether I had the Zen or the iPod with me, I actually carry and use a separate flash player for voice recording, which is more along the lines of iRiver in terms of recording quality and pickup. The poor voice recording bitrate is actually common to every Creative player that records, but it's worse on some due to mic placement among other factors.


The Zen offers better battery life for video, but not audio.
Better video support for sure as I said if you download most of your footage in the DivX / XVid formats.
Better screen - Definitely not for portable use. The viewing angle issue I mentioned became a real PITA a few days into the use of the Zen, especially compared with watching the same footage on the iPod.
The Zen has no OTG capability if you want to make use of it as an image tank.
The iPod has a better quality FM radio but only with the purchase of the remote. Depends on what you want.


It can go either way. The principal difference between you and me is that I've owned both for a significant period of time, so an fully familiar with the advantages and deficiencies of both players. Got my Zen in Feb, sold it's warranty replacement last month - it was redundant. Got my iPod in Nov, it's still my daily player.


The Zen is relatively poorly thought out, ergonomically deficient, better featured but the additional features don't add value to me because they're less useful than I thought they would be due to the implementation. There were many elements about the Zen I liked, it's just that just a few percent more thought into the implementation of everything would have resulted in something I would have picked over the iPod after extensive use.


To the OP, I'd say that if you feel you need the additional features the Zen offers, go for it. But it's not necessarily a better machine than the iPod. In many respects, particularly in terms of everyday usability it lags quite a way behind. The price for the iPod looks good and I would say if you can get it for 145, that seems like the better deal to me.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
Fair points extremelydodgy. I suppose review's are always subjective as they are a personal opinion of the products in question. We've both had experiences of the players in question and we have some broadly similar opinions about them and some different ones too (I suppose this site wouldn't be around if we all shared the same pov!)

Either way I think we've given the OP enough detail regarding the players in question and hopefully he should be able to make a balanced decision. :thumbsup:
 
Extremelydodgy your name is quite fitting how comes if all those things you said are true then practically every major side by side review/comparison of the zen m and the ipod video has rated the zen better ?
 

extremelydodgy

Active Member
GateCrasher said:
Extremelydodgy your name is quite fitting how comes if all those things you said are true then practically every major side by side review/comparison of the zen m and the ipod video has rated the zen better ?

Probably because I don't write my reviews after having read everyone else's.
 

Eliot

Standard Member
extremelydodgy said:
Different strokes of course - but I found the Creative much worse in comparison to the iAudio / iRiver etc for voice recording due not only to the significantly inferior (and fixed) recording bitrate, but also due to the relatively poor mic, which seems to have quite a pronounced logarithmic falloff in recording capablility vs distance. And we aren't talking huge distances - just for recording both sides of a conference table. It's on balance actually slightly worse than even the Griffin iTalk on 3rd Gen iPods, which uses half the recording bitwidth - the mic is probably the equaliser in this instance. Regardless of whether I had the Zen or the iPod with me, I actually carry and use a separate flash player for voice recording, which is more along the lines of iRiver in terms of recording quality and pickup. The poor voice recording bitrate is actually common to every Creative player that records, but it's worse on some due to mic placement among other factors.


The Zen offers better battery life for video, but not audio.
Better video support for sure as I said if you download most of your footage in the DivX / XVid formats.
Better screen - Definitely not for portable use. The viewing angle issue I mentioned became a real PITA a few days into the use of the Zen, especially compared with watching the same footage on the iPod.
The Zen has no OTG capability if you want to make use of it as an image tank.
The iPod has a better quality FM radio but only with the purchase of the remote. Depends on what you want.


It can go either way. The principal difference between you and me is that I've owned both for a significant period of time, so an fully familiar with the advantages and deficiencies of both players. Got my Zen in Feb, sold it's warranty replacement last month - it was redundant. Got my iPod in Nov, it's still my daily player.


The Zen is relatively poorly thought out, ergonomically deficient, better featured but the additional features don't add value to me because they're less useful than I thought they would be due to the implementation. There were many elements about the Zen I liked, it's just that just a few percent more thought into the implementation of everything would have resulted in something I would have picked over the iPod after extensive use.


To the OP, I'd say that if you feel you need the additional features the Zen offers, go for it. But it's not necessarily a better machine than the iPod. In many respects, particularly in terms of everyday usability it lags quite a way behind. The price for the iPod looks good and I would say if you can get it for 145, that seems like the better deal to me.
never before have i read such fanboyish crap in my netire life, the zen vision m owns the ipod video pure and simple, i bought a video, thought it was good, thejn i saw my mates zen. its screen is SO much better than the ipods teh interface is fine and the video output is very useful, as is the fm radio and the voice record.
 

ryart

Active Member
Here we go again. Extremelydodgy makes a considered post, explaining the reason for his opinions which should help the OP decide whether they are relevant for him, and then come the one or two line detractors who feel the need to lace their posts with insults and not much else. No wonder he gets exasperated!
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
ryart said:
Here we go again. Extremelydodgy makes a considered post, explaining the reason for his opinions which should help the OP decide whether they are relevant for him, and then come the one or two line detractors who feel the need to lace their posts with insults and not much else. No wonder he gets exasperated!

I agree. Whilst our opinions differ on this issue, it doesn't mean that I am right and he is wrong (and vice versa). Everyone is entitled to their opinions and extremelydodgy gives his reasons as to why it's not the player for him. Just because that opinion does not agree with mainstream opinion doesn't mean his thoughts are not valid.
 

PJTX100

Distinguished Member
GateCrasher said:
Extremelydodgy your name is quite fitting how comes if all those things you said are true then practically every major side by side review/comparison of the zen m and the ipod video has rated the zen better ?

That's strange.

I have the Aug 2006 "What HiFi MP3 Utimate Guide" on my desk as I type.

Some quotes:

iPod 30G vid: "still the player to beat"

Creative Zen "...the iPod sounds a tad more natural..."

iPod 60G vid "it's not hype, these are simply the best sounding players you can buy"

The Zen got a very positive 5 star review mind, but consistently the iPod was quoted as being superior in, among other things, sound quality and ease-of-use.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
What Hi-Fi consistently change their mind though, in an earlier issue this year, they did a face-off with a ZVM and an iPod Video 30GB. At that point they recommended the ZVM (both got 5 stars though!)
 

PJTX100

Distinguished Member
Tejstar said:
What Hi-Fi consistently change their mind though, in an earlier issue this year, they did a face-off with a ZVM and an iPod Video 30GB. At that point they recommended the ZVM (both got 5 stars though!)

I can well believe it.

Which proves they are both very capable players.

And one doesn't "own" the other.
 

extremelydodgy

Active Member
I presume they'd base their primary opinions around the sound. In terms of tonal response, the iPod has a slight high frequency (we're talking almost beyond the MP3 frequency domain, so of interest to ALAC and WAV users only... and I assume WHF tests with WAVs as well as MP3s) kick-up with a 32 ohm load, with a slightly more pronounced bass falloff. The Zen has an identical bass fall-off, but no HF kick-up. Better control over EQ obviously on the Zen, but poorer effect on the sound... i.e. neither EQ is worth using. Apart from that sonic output specs are suspiciously similar. Both iPod and Zen also happen to be among the best sounding players right now.


The older iPods could perform better under certain conditions (as a line out machine and also with high impedance phones) and in those cases was the best player you could buy in terms of SQ but the new iPods are far more universally compatible. They compromised, as everyone else has already done.


If someone gave me the 5G iPod and the Zen and said the iPod was the best sounding, I would raise issue with that because the Zen is in principle a more neutral player with virtually identical quality in all other respects - so I would say the Zen wins out by a whisker. But the Zen is deficient in a bigger percentage of everyday functionality. So I would take the more usable solution (i.e. the iPod) since the difference in SQ is so minute.
 

ryart

Active Member
Thanks guys - back to sensible and useful debate!

In making my choice of 60GB iPod I assumed that the SQ would at least be comparable for practical portable use, and chose on the features that were important to me. Large hard drive which could also be used as a backup media for files, thinness -so that my pockets don't bulge too much, and use as a USB host hub so that I can download photographs from my camera "on the go" are the most important to me. I discounted the Creative offerings because they didn't offer the latter.

If I was just intersted in listening to compressed music files on the move than I rather liked the look of the iPod Nano.
 

extremelydodgy

Active Member
Tejstar said:
I agree. Whilst our opinions differ on this issue, it doesn't mean that I am right and he is wrong (and vice versa). Everyone is entitled to their opinions and extremelydodgy gives his reasons as to why it's not the player for him. Just because that opinion does not agree with mainstream opinion doesn't mean his thoughts are not valid.

And what mainstream opinions would these be?


In response to Gatecrasher's opinion (without owning an iPod) that the Zen has the best screen in the business, I invite you to take a look at this video. The angle of shift is pretty minute but you can see the effect of it on both the iPod and the Zen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953cL2_qrhU

The range of angles cycled isn't unrealistic as regards typical mobile use. It's of course up to you which you might consider more usable. The colours are certainly more vivid on the Zen, but they are inaccurate. Compare the Zen (@ 100 intensity) & iPod with a calibrated monitor and you'll find that the iPod shows truer colours... and due to the viewing angle issue, the Zen will only show those more vivid colours if you are looking exactly head-on at it. It's not the technology difference: The Samsung YP-Z5 shows similar colours to the Zen yet those colours remain true for a far wider range of viewing angles, and both are regular TFT screens (the iPod is transreflective).


I'm not a 'Anything But iPod' sort of person, the kind of guy who blindly goes for the counterculture or the zeitgeist because he doesn't know what he's looking for. I see a lot of that here. Rather, I make my own mind up after comparing for myself. The Zen is an ergonomic disaster in my book in comparison to the iPod (which is not perfect by any means), and the screen is operationally inferior to the iPod in it's intended usage. As I may have said before it has some nice features, some of which are definitely better than the iPod but they aren't enough to overcome the deficiencies in day-in, day-out use of the oft-used functions.


And that's about all I have to say about it.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
extremelydodgy said:
And what mainstream opinions would these be?

In nearly all of the commentary I have read, many talk of the virtues of the ZVM and in terms of value for money the ZVM wins. Points like the screen, nearly all of the reviews I have read have pointed to the ZVM as a clear winner whilst your opinion is different (not that I'm saying your opinion is wrong - it just goes against most of the commentary out there).
 

Soulfinger

Active Member
Have had my Zen M for 3 weeks now and giving it some good usgae and the only issue I have is the fact that the iPod has SOOOO much more accessories. Oh well its expected with the iPod having 75% of the market share. :eek:

Ergonomic disaster is a bit extreme (no pun indended ;) ) I've used it on the road, on a coach, on the tube, while in my pocket and in my hand and really found no issues and I've got pretty small hands. Being slimmer I'm sure the iPod would feel better in my hand but I can't see it being a key factor in which one to buy. All the reviews I read did say the click wheel is much better but the Zen's control are pretty simply and basic IMO.

The angle shift video is surprising. There is a clear difference. Oh well I'll have to stick to watching it directly on though one of the main reasons I got it was the ability to connect to TV's etc at a higher 640 X 480 resoulution.

I think PJTX100 has but it perfectly

Which proves they are both very capable players.

And one doesn't "own" the other.


The thread seems to be going back and forth trying to prove one owns the other rather than yep both are grreat and depending on your exactly requirements one will be a little better than the other. Simple really.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
Soulfinger said:
The thread seems to be going back and forth trying to prove one owns the other rather than yep both are grreat and depending on your exactly requirements one will be a little better than the other. Simple really.

I agree. For me video is important, so it was an easy choice to make. Others have different requirements so it's best to look at the pro's and con's of both. Both are great players though. :)
 

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