I normally listen to music in surround sound and I have over many years having had an ambisonic system before the current surround sound systems became available or fashionable. This makes everything sound bigger than stereo and I like that. Today I heard some in wall m and k speakers these were the same colour as the wall and placed quite high I believe. Even in stereo sound sounded really big and somehow had a presence in the room. I have been in some charity shops that have had speakers at ceiling height. When I say speakers I mean silly wooden boxes with the driver of some sort in from some incredibly old cheap hi-fi system. But again the sound seems to drift out of the air and have a presence which one would not expect from such cheap tatty equipment. Presumably this is down to psychology. But I'm wondering if we are wasting our time and money on existing expensive speakers which are boxes we are very easily aware of as opposed to placing things higher than usual and which are nearer to being invisible. I know bose are tiny and perhaps not appreciated on these forums. I would be interested in anybody else's experience with speakers when they are not really aware of them or when they are placed higher than may traditionally be considered optimum. I have some Wharfedale picture frame speakers nxt powered but I've never really used them so I may experiment. I will add that my main system is more expensive than the one I heard today so at its simplest I would have hoped mine sounded better. I had a really nice and interesting time today at ideal av in Normanton. As a result I am likely to post in more than one forum about my experiences. I want to tell everybody I have no connection with any of the organisations I may mention. Nor have I paid any of my own hard earned money to any of them. Consequently I am not making any comments on value for money or customer service or anything like that am just trying to give credit where credit is due.