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Interesting Avsforums observations on new gen LCD units

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by camtheman, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. camtheman

    camtheman
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    During last week I've been reading through the mountain of AE500/Z2 posts in Avsforums. When I finished this mammoth task two posts stuck in memory.
    The first post was from a moderator (darin-something or other.) His view on the black level/CR of the Z2/AE500 was that it was an improvement on previous units,of course. What really got me was that he stated that these new LCD CR is equal to DLP units that are under $5000 and more than a year old.
    The second post was from a guy who had an AE500. He said the AE500 black level was slightly better than his AE100 which he'd upgraded from. This post was met with disbelief from others on the forum.
    So one guy says the blacks are DLP level and someone else says they're a bit better than an AE100?
    I think I'll trust the moderator's view more than the other guy but this is really a bold statement to make.I know people have posted mini-reviews of the japanese AE500 already here, but can anyone shed some light(no pun) on these views?
    All this hasn't changed my plan to buy an AE500 though.
     
  2. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Off the top of my head, it could be because of the following reasons:

    It may be that the guy that said the black levels weren't that good, hadn't calibrated the pj using Avia or similar (provided that it can indeed give black levels that are that good).

    His room may be very brightly decorated, so the light from the screen reflections off the walls/ceiling going back onto the screen were washing out the black level. The screen 'blackness' is only as good as the room is - if there is any light, that will refelct onto the screen and that will be as dark as it will ever register. This can also affect contrast.

    The guy who said the black level was as good as the older DLP may have the same as above, and maybe the older PJ had a white segment and a lot of overspill, so wasn't particularly good at producing black, and had a reduced contrast (500:1)

    Or it can produce really good blacks because it had been set up correctly in a darkly decorated room with total light control.

    Idealy, you need to see one for yourself in similar conditions to your home, so that you can get a good idea of what it will be like, or wait for more reviews to get a better idea of it's performance.

    I haven't read the thread, so those are just guesses.

    Gary.
     
  3. theritz

    theritz
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    Camtheman,

    A somewhat belated welcome to the forums.......


    Gary's post is spot on for reasons why there could be a disparity in views such as those quoted above........ darinp is a longtime and well respected member on avs (but not a mod on the <$3500 forum iirc,)................. if memory serves correctly, he is well able to make a dependable judgement on new kit........ avs is down at the mo for archiving, but also from memory, there have been some pretty contentious posts by Lion, who was making comparisons with the AE200 (he was the guy who "discovered" (if that's the right word" the 1:1 pixel mapping approach for the AE100 way back in the mists of time ;) ), creating waves with darinp (among others). This approach is often the result when someone believes that their projector is the best yada yada, and can't bring themselves to contemplate that there might be something in the market that is better.

    I'd be circumspect about trying to draw any conclusion on the basis of this exchange - we're in the "hype" zone with the new market models; I don't believe that any dependable view will emerge until someone with the appropriate skills and equipment has the opportunity to do some side by side testing.

    The views of someone who has had the oportunity to view and test a number of different projectors and has the ability to describe the qualities of the model they are commenting on (Kramer, for instance) would hold much greater weight, imo, than the discursive and, understandably, often enthusiastically "wowed" accounts we tend to see in the first days of a projector coming to market.

    When avs is back on line, have a look on the > $3500 forum for a mega thread shootout of the HT1000 and Sim projectors by Andrea ( name of poster may be incorrect....) - complete with side-by-side screenshots and Colorfacts readings. That kind of in-depth testing is needed to give an informed and authoritative comparison of two projectors properly calibrated and tested by someone with sufficient independence and objectivity.

    Sean G.
     
  4. Kramer

    Kramer
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    Moderators don't know everything :rolleyes:

    Agree with Sean & Gary. Completely subjective & dependent on viewing conditions etc...

    :smoke:
     
  5. camtheman

    camtheman
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    I'm well aware of what the environment can do to a projected image. However, can these two views(in separate threads btw) be explained by environment and some tweaking alone?I think i'll leave it at that then.
    Who knows I might even write my own review of my AE500 when I get it. Or then again maybe I'll be too busy watching stuff to put pen to paper (or keyboard strokes to screen) :D
     
  6. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    two very good post here stacked full of good info for people to digest for projectors or even wider applicability. :)
     
  7. buns

    buns
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    I saw the lion thing..... most of it was adjusted later.... it got really very heated. Bear in mind also that his AE100 is tweaked to an inch of its life and as such, he's unlikely to go down without an arguement even if something else is better!

    ad
     
  8. theritz

    theritz
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    Ad,

    Agree that such entrenched positions do little other than indicate a closed mind.....................

    imo, no - comparison is always subjective to some degree or another, but it is meaning less to try to establish a view based on the views of different people with different projectors - particularly when one of the statements is clearly off-beam.

    Imo, any comparison worth consideration should begin with both projectors in the same environment, correctly calibrated and using the same source technology and material. A review of a projector on its own is a different proposition, but should be calibrated and the environment, technology and review material described in sufficient detail to enable the reader to make a judgement about the circumstances in which the opinion of the reviewer was formed.

    The thread on avs I referred to (by Andrea Manuti) containing the test of a Sim Domino and NEC HT1000 can be found here . A similar shootout of the old/new Sim 300 models can be found in this thread on avs - work of this depth and quality is, alas, far too rare; access to more of Andrea's work is available by subscription to his website.


    Sean G.
     

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