Interconnect to tame brightness

dingwall

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Any recommendations for an interconnect with the specific intention of taming a very bright treble? Equivalent to say a -3db reduction of a typical treble control, so nothing is too warm!

Budget £30ish. I was thinking Chord Calypso or Van den Hul The Name...
 
:hiya:

I found Profigolds pretty smooth, soft and warm in my set up.....
 
Any Van Den Hul carbon based cable is worth trying. I don't think you'll get -3db however. If it's that bad, you may have a problem elsewhere. When did the bright treble start occuring?
 
-3dB is a lot of drop off for a speaker cable of short to modest length, as I've said in the past you would be better off using a passive LC/R network, much more controlled/clean cut.

John.
 
No interconnect should tame 3dB off the treble. If it does, it's either broken or it's very high capacitance cable (unsuitable for an interconnect).

Assuming you're basically happy with your amp & speakers but the sound is a little bright, try lowering the height of your speakers. You can also tame the brightness of your room by adding more soft furnishings or heavier curtains. Try moving your furniture around or reposition your listening chair. These techniques are likely to produce better results than a replacement cable.

Dave.
 
Thanks for the help guys - this is just for background music in a 2nd room using budget, although still rather good, gear. The bright treble comes from the speakers and very live acoustics, and I wouldn't mind spending a bit of money to tame it. I can't change anything else other than the interconnect, otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

I didn't expect to get a 3db tone control from an interconnect, just as much as possible. Any ideas in addition to Profigold and Van den hul Carbons? It's damned impossible to demo interconnects nowadays, so anyone who ditched a cable for being far too warm let me know!
 
You talk of "bright treble" and "very live acoustics" which suggests the problem is not subtle. I seriously doubt that any interconnect, regardless of budget, will make a noticeable improvement. (Interconnects make either no difference or relatively subtle differences, depending on your cable religion).

If I were you, I would investigate other ways of passively taming the treble. If you're not afraid of a little DIY you could (at your own risk) install passive volume controls on the tweeters, after the speaker crossover, something like this...

http://www.diyspeakers.com/catalog/home.php?cat=257

Since this is done after the crossover, it doesn't change the impedance as seen by your amp, and doesn't add phase distortion like passive tone controls would.

A far simpler technique used in many recording studios is to tape a small square of tissue paper over the tweeter domes (although this is pretty ugly if you don't leave the speaker covers on).

Dave.
 
I agree with kingkrell about the VDH speaker cable. I tamed bright treble in my system by using VDH CS122 hybrid speaker cable (it has a carbon layer). It depends exactly how bright your system is. In my case the brightness was such that some vocalists sounded as though they were singing with a gap in their teeth (lispy). Now the sound is great. The treble is detailed but tamed, and the midrange fuller.

Maybe you should check the polarity of the speaker cable from amp to speakers since this can result in a bassless sound (+ to + and - to -).

Try this thread where someone else was experiencing over bright treble:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366221

Hope this helps and that you sort it out although it might help if you posted your setup.
 
Jeez...if you can't answer a simple question! :)

Let me say it again - I can't change anything but the interconnect.

They make a big difference to my ears, equally as big as the difference between CD players.

The polarity is correct, I'm an old hand at hi-fi, but just haven't experienced these warm interconnects which apparently are everywhere (except when you want to buy a pair!).

I've tried most of my connects, which alas were bought mainly for a slightly pepping up of the sound:

Cambridge Audio studio reference (my favourite connect I own)
Nordost Solar Wind (brighter than the CA)
Monster Interlink Reference (much brighter)
Some Belkin pureav cheapos
Cambridge Audio £10 ones (warmest)

Any particular cables from vdh to try?
 
Werhay I had a CA Pacific:thumbsup: after a £10 red one, and the next IC...well we won't disclose the cost of it, but I think the CA cables are FAB! for the money.

In my search for the perfect cable I came across Cardas, which seemed very chilled out and layed back to my ears, the one I tried was way way over £30, but I would guess the general sound (like other makes) may well have started at the less expensive end but I do not know if they would fall with in your budget. I have no budget now, so things are simple, can't buy a bean regarding stereo stuff at the mo:(


I'm trying to remember.....
I found the £10 CA warm but bass was a tad uncontrolled, not as clear or tight as the Pacific, I think (brain cells weerring) the profigold may have been a tad more controlled than the £10 CA. Can't compare as in different price brackets but the Cardas had wonderfull control and detail.

Sorry only heard one VDH for a little while a long time ago so unable to comment on VDH's I'm afraid.
 
dingwall said:
Any particular cables from vdh to try?

You could try the Bay, but I notice it has carbon and silver plated copper too, so it could be only a subtle change. Try and loan one if you can. It's worth trying the Profigold as it's cheap. Cheap copper cables can lack detail and most detail is in the treble, just keep your ears open for flabby bass though.

I have a feeling you'll need to change your speaker cable too.
 
I have VDH The Name but it didnt seem to reduce the brightness issue (The Name has no carbon).

What Hifi says of the Ixos XHA406-100:
"Fluid-sounding with a refined delivery. Would be useful in an overly bright system." A quick browse finds it around £27 on the net.

and of the Profigold PGA-3000:
"Solidly made cable. Will flatter systems that tend towards thinness or brightness." Around £23.

I found this review of the VDH First Ultimate on AVReviews but it is very expensive:
"Van den Hul First Ultimate
Van den Hul makes a substantial range of cables and the odd high end cartridge too. This is the top model in its interconnect range and features 12,000 individually insulated conductors made of vdH's preferred material, Linear Structured carbon. In use First Ultimate has a smooth refined sound that's devoid of the edge that some call precision and others distortion, producing a rich, detailed soundstage with very good bass weight and control with clean, relaxed highs. Some will prefer the bite of metal cables but this gives an unusually natural and musical result that will suit top flight systems.

Plus points: Natural yet revealing, good bass
Minus points: A little smooth for some tastes
Construction: coaxial
Price: £175/1m pair"
 
In a minute someone will tell you that there's nothing that can be done by cables as they only make a difference in your mind. Persevere, experiment and avoid high end chord cables at all cost (in this instance). Their attack and energy could just about push you over the edge if you have a system that is already leaning towards brightness. In a laid back sounding system, on the other hand, they are just perfect.
 
maybe try this???????


And when it all goes wrong? I once visited a customer to install a turntable and he asked me what to do about his Yamaha NS1000 speakers that were too bright and boomy in his room. This was the 1970s before speaker stands were standard. When he left the room, I took the fronts off, turned them upside down so the excess treble was absorbed by the carpet and the bass unit was away from the floor and put the grilles back on. "Brilliant" he said, "What have you done?" "A trade secret", I said!


http://www.russandrews.com/viewindex.asp?article_id=HFNRuss&src=email104
 
Put some tissue paper over the tweeter if you want a treble roll off. If you get -3db for treble you have a faulty cable! What ever one you want will be the same (no-3db) unless there is a RC network inside and many of the cables listed here are just NOT £30 ones. I would look to positioning (see post above) and room controls first, it sounds like cable swap is the wrong solution for your problem.
 
dingwall said:
Any recommendations for an interconnect with the specific intention of taming a very bright treble? Equivalent to say a -3db reduction of a typical treble control, so nothing is too warm!

-3dB is something like half the volume.

No interconnect that is better than a rusty coathanger is going to make more than 0.1dB difference, and doubt even that.
 
j0hn said:
"Brilliant" he said, "What have you done?" "A trade secret", I said!

:smashin: I like it
 
You might try series resistors on the treble inputs or (shock horror) possibly even a graphic equaliser, though passive equalisers which impose the least of their own character or undesirable artefacts aren't cheap. They're commonly used in recording studios. Personally, I think tone controls are much maligned and, although nothing is totally free of some degree of compromise, if a tone control can render the unlistenable listenable, it may well be worth trying. Just MHO.
 
There's really not much point in adding anything to a 7-year old Thread, you know !

Didn't you get a page suggesting just that ?
 
It did occur to me but, just out of curiosity, I wondered if anyone might read it and respond ~ and somebody did. A different power cord (nothing of any special note) to my pre-amp has helped. When you get into the realms of hi-rez systems (mine's Bryston and PMC), even seemingly incidental changes can make a small but crucial difference.
 
It did occur to me but, just out of curiosity, I wondered if anyone might read it and respond ~ and somebody did.

But my response was only to suggest that YOUR response to such an old Thread was rather pointless ! - That's hardly a 'reason to be cheerful' !
A different power cord (nothing of any special note) to my pre-amp has helped. When you get into the realms of hi-rez systems (mine's Bryston and PMC), even seemingly incidental changes can make a small but crucial difference.

How can changing a power cord possibly result in a reduction in treble response, which is what the OP was hoping for ?

In my opinion, the resultant change was purely to your perception of what you were hearing, strongly biased by you WANTING to hear a change, to justify having spent whatever you have on your 'hi-rez' system !
 
Did I say the power cord had effected a reduction to the treble response? Rather, it's smoothed the treble response, not hugely but to a welcome degree, moderating some excess splash and sizzle. This is by no means an uncommon result of changing a power cord, as reported in many reviews.

Of course I want to iron out niggles with a system that's cost quite a bit of money and get the best possible results ~ who wouldn't? Experimentation with power cords is just one method of achieving that. If you consider such changes to be no more than placebos, then there's nothing I'm likely to be able to report that will open your mind.
 
Did I say the power cord had effected a reduction to the treble response? Rather, it's smoothed the treble response, not hugely but to a welcome degree, moderating some excess splash and sizzle. This is by no means an uncommon result of changing a power cord, as reported in many reviews.

As I understand it, 'splash' and 'sizzle' are usually associated with higher frequency components of a sound (produced by a cymbal, perhaps).

If these have been 'moderated', how has that been accomplished, other than by a (perceived) reduction in high frequency, i.e. treble, response ?

And how has this been achieved by changing a 1 or 2 metre length of external mains cord, when there are several 10's of metres of quite crude mains cable within your house, fed by up to 100 or 200 metres of buried mains cable, back to the sub-station which supplies your property, as well as many others ?

Of course I want to iron out niggles with a system that's cost quite a bit of money and get the best possible results ~ who wouldn't? Experimentation with power cords is just one method of achieving that.

But do you ever just listen to the MUSIC; or do you always listen to the SOUND ?!?

Similarly, do you ever get completely engrossed in the ACTION or EMOTION of the movie; or do you continuously analyse the PICTURE for flaws ?!?

My system may may well have not cost as much as yours; but it suffices for my needs and I ENJOY the experience it provides.

If you consider such changes to be no more than placebos, then there's nothing I'm likely to be able to report that will open your mind.

Your admitting that the placebo effect exists might eventually lead to an acceptance in YOUR mind that it has been quietly operating throughout your life.
 

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