Integrated Amp for LS50 Metas

happycamper515

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Looking for something up to around $1500 USD. Narrowed it down to the following. I do have a sub so strong bass is not a requirement from the amp's sound signature and I do a lot of listening with the sub turned off anyways since I like to listen to the Metas by themselves.

Rotel A14MKii 80WPC
Denon PMA-1600ne 70WPC
Musical Fidelity M3si 85WPC
Rega Elex-R 72WPC
NAD C388 150WPC
 
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I have heard the Rega Elex-R at home on demo and to me it didn't seem to have the resolution I was after, but it was superb with rhythm, the bass was very solid and clean, a very "musical amp" and reasonably warm but not too warm.
I have not heard the Musical Fidelity in person but am told it is a nice amp, warm and fluid sounding like the Denon and very detailed, Rotel amps are good but can be a little lean sounding, personally I've never really gelled with the Rotel sound or the NAD come to that, I've always prefered a warmer more organic sound.
After home demoing the cambridge CX81, Rega Elex-r, a Naim Nait 5, Arcam SA20, and Denon PMA1600ne I settled on the Denon , it doesn't quite have the musicality of the Rega or the detail of the MF, but to me the Denon sounded warmer more natural and cleaner with more air and can really boogie when you turn up the wick (not as good for quiet listening though) I also liked that it had tone controls and a reasonable sounding DAC (it is actually better than reported) The Denon is a great amp if you don't like it too bright, it's one of the smoothest sounding amps I've ever heard period.
The NAD would be great if you listen a lot at high volumes as it has plenty of power. Not on your list but should be -the Roksan K3 would also be worth considering if you like your sound loud and textured, big wide soundstage with loads of power in reserve and in my opinion better than the NAD and Rotel.
There are some that say the Kef's are hard to drive, I'd say any of those amps you listed would be more than capable of driving them pretty loud if needed. Speaker /amp synergy is always very important so make sure you try and listen to at least 2 of the amps at home before deciding. I would start with the Rega and MF. The Rega likes a good warm up first.
 
Hi. Elex R owner here. Superb amp. Drives the hell out of my Neat Motive speakers (over 11 O'Clock is too loud) and built like a tank.
I'd highly recommend.
 
Check the video on YouTube about the M10 from NAD. Clicking noise from it. So NAD has a lot of problems. Whether the C388 is the same I don’t know. Still it is based on the same topology.

I’d go for the Denon all day. Dynamic, smooth sound that we’ll suit KEF neutral sound.
 
Nad does not have ‘lots of problems’.

A few people on the ‘internet of all non thinking extrapolation’ has lots of problems.
 
If you have any digital connection I’d go for the Nad or the Rotel.

Both are rock solid amps with both companies usual first class power supplies. They’ll both drive speakers even more of a current queen than the Kefs without noticing.

If you’re a resolutely analogue fellow then add the Rega to the list, Rega make first class amplifiers, and also equip them with stirling power supplies.

You’ll be happy with any of the three, and if you can’t get a demo that’s good news.
 
In addition, I’d consider a demo of Roksan K3 and Yamaha’s AS2100/2200 amps or something left field from YBA.

Good luck.
 
The Yamahas are a big step up in price but would definitely be on the short list if I were going to spend that much. Gotta cutoff somewhere and the $1500-$1600 USD mark is the limit on this upgrade cycle. I actually like the Rotel 1572 MKii but it's another $500. These skinny amps look a little wimpy and I like the looks of these taller amps and since it won't be in a rack how tall the amp is doesn't matter.
 
Yes some of those might look skinny but are certainly not wimpy lightweights.

Rotel A14mk2 8.9kg (19.7 lbs)

Musical Fidelity M3si 9.2kg (20.2 lbs)

Rega Elex-R 10.9kg (24 lbs)

NAD C388 11.2kg (24.6 lbs

Roksan K3i 13.5kg (29.7lbs)

Denon PMA1600ne 17.6kg (38.8 lbs)
 
NAD for sure. LS50s need a lot of power.
 
If you were in the UK I'd suggest these Hypex Power amps and a passive preamp or dac with variable output depending on your sources.



Remember amp weigh only works for Class A and Class AB which need big transformers and lots of capacitors to provide a strong power supply, class D and SMPS can work very well these days in a lighter weight package.
 
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What about separates? One pre amp, one power amp.
 
Nad does not have ‘lots of problems’.

A few people on the ‘internet of all non thinking extrapolation’ has lots of problems.
You’re entitled to your opinion of course. But I’ve owned 3 Nad amplifiers in the past ( the old Classic AB amplifiers) all of them developed strange behavior after 6 moths of use. Compared to other amplifiers from different manufacturers all of them have been rock solid. I am not saying everyone can get a lemon, still it is a bit strange.

Still I’m impressed of Nad pushing the envelope when it comes to new technology. Bass management, HDIM connections, Dirac. And they do sound great. They we’ll have no problems suiting the KEF speakers.
 
You’re entitled to your opinion of course. But I’ve owned 3 Nad amplifiers in the past ( the old Classic AB amplifiers) all of them developed strange behavior after 6 moths of use. Compared to other amplifiers from different manufacturers all of them have been rock solid. I am not saying everyone can get a lemon, still it is a bit strange.

Still I’m impressed of Nad pushing the envelope when it comes to new technology. Bass management, HDIM connections, Dirac. And they do sound great. They we’ll have no problems suiting the KEF speakers.

How does an individual process data without actual reliable statistical evidence?

We've not enough access to the actual data. Possibly nobody does.

If I have one or two bad experiences with a manufacturer I'm not going to use them again. Is that logical? It's hard to tell. The suppliers don't tell the truth all the time (sometimes none of the time). The dealers won't always be honest. Forums are a valuable source of (mis)information, but we are all full of bias, so not reliable sources of either positive or negative information.

Take the Arcam line for example. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole at the moment - with the exception of their vanilla A/B amps. Why? Well the SA30 and related lines of amps/receivers that have Dirac and/or streaming have spawned so much discontent that entire forums have arisen to deal with them. But does that reflect 1% of their users or 50%? There is no way of knowing, so I'll stay away entirely.

@Helix Hifi feels that way about NAD. Is he wrong? Is he just unlucky or are NAD products rife with problems? I have no idea how we could go about finding out. For large sample goods like automobiles and internet service providers there are accessible user surveys, but for HiFi? Good luck to all of us.

We make a lot of decisions based on nothing more than hearsay, and often almost at random - or more charitably "on impulse" but of course that's part of the fun, and the engineers keep on generally making things better. We watch youtube reviews or read a magazine or web review and are unduly influenced by that.

Meanwhile we argue furiously about our concerns which aren't even serious enough to qualify as "first world problems".
 
The Yamahas are a big step up in price but would definitely be on the short list if I were going to spend that much. Gotta cutoff somewhere and the $1500-$1600 USD mark is the limit on this upgrade cycle. I actually like the Rotel 1572 MKii but it's another $500. These skinny amps look a little wimpy and I like the looks of these taller amps and since it won't be in a rack how tall the amp is doesn't matter.
I would look to see if you can source a Yamaha AS2100. I paid £1300 (new in UK for mine a year or so ago, just before the 2200 was launched. You never know, their could be a few new boxed “hanging” about.

Good luck with the demo’s. The truth is, their are very few bad amps, speakers, sources, etc anymore, it really does come down to the sound you like within the confines or your budget.
 
Yes some of those might look skinny but are certainly not wimpy lightweights.

Rotel A14mk2 8.9kg (19.7 lbs)

Musical Fidelity M3si 9.2kg (20.2 lbs)

Rega Elex-R 10.9kg (24 lbs)

NAD C388 11.2kg (24.6 lbs

Roksan K3i 13.5kg (29.7lbs)

Denon PMA1600ne 17.6kg (38.8 lbs)

How is it that the Denon is almost twice the weight of the Rotel and Musical fidelity?
 
How is it that the Denon is almost twice the weight of the Rotel and Musical fidelity?
Because different manufacturers uses different philosophy’s when they design their amplifiers. The Denon has a very heavy transformer (two in fact). El core transformer. This has its benefits if you have dirty mains/power. The Denon also has two heat sinks, caps, aluminum chassis. This of course contributes the amplifier weight The denon is an old fashioned Class AB amplifier also. All this as I said makes It heavier.
Usually if an amplifier is heavier the more quality parts it uses. Still today you can find Class D (switch mode) amplifiers that weighs much less. The Powernode only weighs about 2 kg.
 
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How is it that the Denon is almost twice the weight of the Rotel and Musical fidelity?
Denon's top amps are heavy. The model above the 1600, the 2500 NE weights in at an hernia inducing 25kg. The corresponding SACD player, the DCD 2500 NE tips the scales at 13.7kg which is 0.7kg heavier than my Rega Elicit-R amp. The 1600/2500 range of amps and players are beautifully built.
 
Denon's top amps are heavy. The model above the 1600, the 2500 NE weights in at an hernia inducing 25kg. The corresponding SACD player, the DCD 2500 NE tips the scales at 13.7kg which is 0.7kg heavier than my Rega Elicit-R amp. The 1600/2500 range of amps and players are beautifully built.
You can’t go wrong with Denon. Airy soundstage. Bass is deep, but also nuanced. Midrange is detailed but not analytical. Treble a bit rolled of but still has bite to it. Denon can rock and be musical at the same time. Why Denon is not audio approved in the hifi community is beyond me. I believe it has something do with the early 90’s amplifiers. I am not certain. Still Denon is on my recommend list. Only thing is that you need to send an email to engineers that built the San Francisco brigade, because it is so heavy😉.
 
NAD for sure. LS50s need a lot of power.
Interestingly, two different Stereophile reviewers claimed that the NAD D3020 drove LS50s to high volume with no problems. It's 30 wpc into 8. They don't give a rating for 4, but it would be larger. This is a Hypex amplifier, as is the Nad M10, and several of the newer C series (and the Bluesound Powernode).
 
Well my experience with the LS50s is that they like a lot of power. Lower powered amps can make them play loud, but they don't sound good.

My Behringer A800 sounds much better with the LS50s than my Marantz PM7000N, which according to those reviewers should have way more than enough.
 
Interestingly, two different Stereophile reviewers claimed that the NAD D3020 drove LS50s to high volume with no problems. It's 30 wpc into 8. They don't give a rating for 4, but it would be larger. This is a Hypex amplifier, as is the Nad M10, and several of the newer C series (and the Bluesound Powernode).
Nad is famous for their dynamic efficiency power output. This why the D3020 can play loud and controlled even if only has only 30 watts,

Still I’d go for the C388. 150 watts 20kkhz-20hz. And dynamic efficiency is as high as 250 watts. And believe the damping factor is 500.

This is important because the Ls50 drops all the way to 3.8 ohm.
 

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