Integrate Stereo Spkr into Home Theatre System Front L/R

cn9601

Active Member
Hope to receive enlightenment from AV-savvy bros. Conceptually, I have been told that it is possible to use the Stereo System pair of loudspeakers as HT Front L/R Spkrs. I understand that it is by connecting the AV (Pre-Amp IN) to Stereo Amp (Pre-Amp OUT). Sounds like using a pair of Interconnect cables. Then volume is pre-set at the stereo amp, possibly 10 o'clock. Then volume control at HT AV is as per normal.

Please...please enlighten my understanding. Any concern that may damage either amp? :lease:
 

DNO

Active Member
Yes this is possible although I think from your description that you might have the connections the wrong way round in your plans. Your AV amp must have pre-out connectors. Connect the L+R pre-out from your AV AMP to a spare input (not the phono one) on your 2-channel amp. Do this using audio interconnects. Set a volume on your 2-ch amp and select the input you used to connect the 2 amps together. When you turn on your AV amp it will use the 2-ch amp as a power amp and the Front L+R soundtrack will be coming through your 2-ch setup
 

ronmc

Standard Member
courtesy of MarkP80
He told me this advice for me to connect my Cyrus cd player and amp onto my AV amp.
I have yet to try it but will do so when I can get the chance over the next few days.


No, not quite. What you want is for the stereo equipment to be independant of the av gear. (I have some Cyrus too, BTW)

So, CD player connected to stereo amp (CD input), connected to front speakers, as normal for stereo.
DVD player connected to av amp via digital for 5.1 sound.
Rears, centre and sub connected to av amp as normal.
AV amp front speaker preouts connected to AV input on Cyrus amp.
Note, no connection to the front speakers from the av amp directly.

Now you need to set the level of the Cyrus stereo amp -
Select AV on the Cyrus.
Set the volume to 1 o'clock
Hold the AV button in on the Cyrus and keep it held in.
Turn the Cyrus on to standby, then back on, keeping AV held in.
- the vol will return to 1 o'clock.
Now try turning the Cyrus to standby and back again - as if by magic, the vol will always return to 1 o'clock. (or do you need to turn it off at the back, and on again, holding AV in? Can't remember exactly, it's ages since I did it, but it's one of the two. Try both and see which works)

Now you've done that, you need to set the av amp sound levels as normal. Use the amps auto setup function if it has one, but don't touch the Cyrus volume button, let the av amp equalise all the levels of the 5 oplus sub speakers.

And there you go. For stereo use, just use your Cyrus CD and amp as normal.
For av, turn both amps on, select AV on the Cyrus, and the Cyrus volume will be automatically set to the correct level. You control the entire av system volume with the av amp volume knob, as normal.
 

Scott_Mac

Distinguished Member
Hope to receive enlightenment from AV-savvy bros. Conceptually, I have been told that it is possible to use the Stereo System pair of loudspeakers as HT Front L/R Spkrs. I understand that it is by connecting the AV (Pre-Amp IN) to Stereo Amp (Pre-Amp OUT). Sounds like using a pair of Interconnect cables. Then volume is pre-set at the stereo amp, possibly 10 o'clock. Then volume control at HT AV is as per normal.

Please...please enlighten my understanding. Any concern that may damage either amp? :lease:

Pretty much correct, though as said above you've got the signal path the wrong way round... you need pre-outs from the AV amp into a spare input on the stereo amp. *this is how i run mine)

You then set the stereo amp to a predetermined volume usually half or a quarter way... then you set up the AV amp as normal and all you need to do when you want to watch a film is adjust the stereo amp to the volume level you chose, select the input and off you go... i don't recommend setting the volume on the stereo amp too high in case you forget to turn it down and play a CD!!!
 

cn9601

Active Member
Thank you very much guys :clap:

Guess I owe u guys a little more background info. I have actually swapped my Front L/R spkrs to the Stereo, which I truly enjoy the stereo audio :smashin: BUT I compromise my AV audio setup, obviously the Front :oops:

So, currently I have a pair of Front L/R spkrs connected to the speaker ports of AV amp. Now, with the recommended setup of using stereo amp, what happen to these Front L/R spkrs - no sound?

Also, I just notice that the Stereo Amp has Power Amp In and Pre Amp Out. Should I still use either one of there for Interconnect to the AV Amp? Or strictly I must use the other source, eg. Tape In, Video In?

To protect the components duirng power up (if necessary), is there any specific sequence, eg. power up the DVD player, Stereo amp and then AV amp?

Tks. :)
 

MarkP80

Active Member
With the setup described above, you should connect the front l/r speakers to the stereo amp, not the av amp.

Then, when just using stereo, you will get stereo from just the two speakers.
When using 5.1, you turn on the av amp, as well as the stereo amp, and you get 5.1 from all speakers.

Just a thought, you haven't said what you are using as a CD source.

For 5.1 AV, you will be using a DVD player with a digital (optical or coax) connection to the 5.1 digital input of your AV amp. You then get sound from your fronts as these are connected up via the av preouts through your stereo amp. (You set the source selector on the stereo amp according to the inputs you used)

What about stereo? I think we've presumed you had a CD player connected to the CD input on your stereo amp, in which case you just select "CD" on the stereo amp, and away you go. But I have a suspicion you are using your DVD player for stereo duty - is this right?
In this case, you need to make a further connection. You don't take stereo sound from your dvd using the digital connection. Your DVD player will have a pair of analogue outputs on the back. You need to connect these up, using a normal pair of analogue interconnects, to the CD input of you stereo amp.

Hope that helps,
MarkP
 

cn9601

Active Member
:oops: guess I owe a lot more background info :suicide:

OK, here it goes....have Cambridge Audio CDP connected to Audiolab stereo amp using CD input source. And pair of Mission loud spkrs connected to Audiolab stereo amp (;) using bi-wire A-B channels).

Then Yammy AVR: Denon DVD 1930 optical digital (for DTS & DD), 5.1ch analog RCA (for SACD), Rotel CDP analog RCA. But the Front L/R is Bose (which is giving that dissatisfaction :boring:). The rest Ctr and S L/R are Mission spkrs. and finally 0.1 LFE Energy sub.

Ambitously, also connected analog RCA from Denon 1930 to Audiolab stereo amp using Tape In source. :rolleyes:

Now, the intention of this thread is to MAKE USE of the Mission Loudspkrs (which is now connected to Audiolab stereo amp) as my Yammy AVR Front L/R AGAIN. I guess it is now possible, that is to use Yammy Pre-Out to Audiolab stereo amp. So I still 'beg' to ask the following:

1. So, currently I have a pair of Front L/R spkrs connected to the speaker ports of AV amp. Now, with the recommended setup of using stereo amp, what happen to these Front L/R spkrs - no sound?

2. Also, I just notice that the Stereo Amp has Power Amp In and Pre Amp Out. Should I still use either one of there for Interconnect to the AV Amp? Or strictly I must use the other source, eg. Tape In, Video In?

3. To protect the components duirng power up (if necessary), is there any specific sequence, eg. power up the DVD player, Stereo amp and then AV amp?

Appreaciate enlightenment. TYWM :thumbsup:
 

DNO

Active Member
Okay, the best approach will depend upon the relative quality of your stereo amp and your AV amp. The majority of people who have both amps tend to have them because they consider the AV amps inferior for music duties and dont want to compromise this. What you are trying to achieve here is the best of both worlds but depending upon the relative performance of your amps ther emay have to be compromise somewhere and only you can decide where that should be.

So first it would be helpful to know what both your amps are and what speakers (although thats not so important) you are driving. {edit} just re-read you post, silly me ( too early in the morning and too much Red last night)

If your prioirty is 2-channel music and you think the 2-ch amp is better than the AV amp for this purpose then the way to go is to have your CD player goign into the 2-ch amp and the 2-ch amp drive the speakers. Then you connect the L+R pre-outs from the AV amp to a spare input on the 2-ch amp. You will still need to wire the centre and surround speakers to you AV amp and both amps will need to be turned on for you to get all speakers pumping.

In the above config, for listening to CD's you only need the 2-ch amp turned on and it will do all the pre and power amp work and therefore you dont compromise you music (if thats your preference). When you want to watch movies, flick the 2-ch amp over the input you plugged the AV amp into. have both turned on and stick on a DVD. Now in this case the AV AMP is doing all the pre-amp work and then handing the front L+R off to the 2-ch amp for power amping whilst it handles the poweramping itself for the centre and rears

Hopefully that makes some sense

Come to think of it, I cant think of a scenario where you would want to have the 2-ch amp doing pre-amp work for music then handing over power-amp duties to the AV amp - unless the AV amp is significantly more powerfull or sonically better in which case you may be better off just connecting your sources (CD etc) directly into the AV amp
 

DNO

Active Member
Not sure what happens if the Bose are still connected when you have the L+R pre-outs connected off to you Audiolab- They are redundant anyway so why not just disconnect them

I'd plug the pre-outs into the Video input on you 2-ch amp, it just seems logical

I'll leave it to others to recommend best power on order
 

cn9601

Active Member
:rolleyes: thought leaving the "dissatisfied" Bose connected to the AVR Front L/R spkrs and with the other Mission loudspkrs - WOW! I will get 7.1ch :clap:
Just jokin :suicide: I know 7.1ch doesnt work this way :rolleyes:

Anyway, still wonder why not the Stereo Amp Pre-Amp In / Power Amp Out :confused:

Does it matter to use really good interconnect cable for this purpose to connect 2 amps? Or just out-of-the-box Red / White RCA is sufficient for the job?

Tks Guys :clap:
 

cn9601

Active Member
sorie. there's another idea.:lesson:

can I connect the Mission loudspkrs to 2 amps? tis means using 2 pairs of spk cables: one to Yammy AVR and one to Audiolab? Or it is a very destructive idea :suicide:
 

Scott_Mac

Distinguished Member
Don't connect to 2 amps!!!!!

As above, Pre Out from the AV amp into one of the inputs on the stereo amp (not the pre out or power amp in)

Then for CD's you only turn on the stereo amp and off you go, for AV you turn both on and follow my instructions above for connecting and setting up....

A better interconnect than the freebie red and white one is advised.... QED do some reasonable ones for around £30, or have a look at Mark Grants offers in the Power Buys section
 

cn9601

Active Member
:oops: :nono: Tks. Point(s) Noted.

So it is also suicidal :suicide: to continue connecting the Bose spkrs to Yammy Front L/R , when I connect the AVR Pre-Out to Stereo Amp (maybe Tape IN) ?
 

Scott_Mac

Distinguished Member
Yes, that wouldn't be a great idea... i think the amp would override the speaker outs with the pre out anyway, but i wouldn't want to find out!
 

cn9601

Active Member
:hiya: :clap: :smashin:

I have DONE it. Now my AV Front L/R are driven by stereo amp pumping out to Mission Loudspkrs :clap:

I rewarded myself wif 2 cans of beer and laze onto sofa with Eagles Hotel California DTS and Dire Straits Money for Nothing SACD multi-ch. I will catch up wif Black hawk Down tomorrow.

Wow! finally how the drum will decay gracefully and that discrete guitar plucking. Wow! :rotfl:

Thank You Guys :thumbsup:

Now I just have to find a retired spot for that piece of Bose :suicide:
 

cn9601

Active Member
:hiya: Hi again, just wonder whether I could take this thread a little further on technical awareness.

Given that Front L/R is now Pre-Out to a Stereo Amp (in my case, using Video IN). How will the Front audio be processed now? That is, when a 5.1ch is played, does the AV 'upscale' or DAC the audio signal, and then in uncompressed form to the stereo amp, and the stereo amp will re-process it again.....?

By pushing up the stereo amp volume, eg. to 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock (now I set it 11 o'clock for AV), will it actually also amplify the audio detail :rolleyes: Thats good rite :rolleyes: When it is at 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock, for the 5.1ch tone level, I could level all 5.1 at AV, by reducing the db level of Ctr & Surround. Good idea :confused:
 

MarkP80

Active Member
Your av amp processes the digital 5.1 bitstream, splitting it into all the DD channels. Your stereo amp is amplifying the stereo signal.

You should select a setting for your stereo amp on av duty, and always use this setting. Try say 12 o'clock. Then you need to balance all the speaker levels on your av amp. Use a sound level meter, or alternatively your amps microphone auto set up if it has one. Once done, as I say, make sure you always put your stereo amp back to the same position.

If you need somewhere to put your redundant speakers, try the classifieds!

MarkP
 

cn9601

Active Member
:hiya: Taken delivery of Panny TH-37PV70H and TX-32LX70M and so was busy setting them up. Also went to grab a Silver Interconnect to quick fix the connection between AVR and Stereo Amp. Oh-yes, there is more clarify and detail now when playing 5.1ch. SACD erhmmmmm....quite acceptable.

Also to share my trial of the Silver Interconnect on Cambridge Audio CDP to Stereo Amp. :rolleyes: The audio is so-so artificial and the bass is almost cut off. Guess Copper is still the way to go. In fact, think I have been warned before that Silver will not give that WARM - well, it is definitely true for me now.

Nevertheless, it does appear to me that it is quite fitting for 5.1ch, since the sub will greatly compensate for the loss of bass. And the clarify and detail does make all the more the movie experience :rolleyes: more fulfilling :clap:
 

alcarmichael

Active Member
Okay, the best approach will depend upon the relative quality of your stereo amp and your AV amp. The majority of people who have both amps tend to have them because they consider the AV amps inferior for music duties and dont want to compromise this. What you are trying to achieve here is the best of both worlds but depending upon the relative performance of your amps ther emay have to be compromise somewhere and only you can decide where that should be.

I found this thread as I'm too looking into using a 2 channel amp (I do not know which one yet, any suggestions?) to power my main speakers while my Pioneer VSX AX3 takes care of the rest. Will this reduce the surround sound quality while watching a film?
 

inicholson

Active Member
I found this thread as I'm too looking into using a 2 channel amp (I do not know which one yet, any suggestions?) to power my main speakers while my Pioneer VSX AX3 takes care of the rest. Will this reduce the surround sound quality while watching a film?

As long as the 2 channle amp is at least as good as (and what's the point unless it's better than?) your AV amp then; no!

It's a fairly common set up for those of us who believe our stereo amp is better for music than any AV amp we're likely to find. I guess there's an argument that the front pair may not tonally match the other speakers quite as well but improvements in the sound from the stereo amp (assuming it's a good one!) should more then compensate for any possible losses.
 

fancyabrew

Active Member
I can’t quite work out why you’ve been told to put the pre-outs from your AV amp to the amp you’re planning to use as a power amp’s video in, when you say the amp has pre-in’s?

Connect the pre-outs on the AV amp to the pre-in’s on your power amp. Doing it that way means you don’t have to touch the volume on the power amp, your AV amp’s volume will control everything. If you connected things this way you *might* have to press a button on the power amp to tell it to be a power amp, that’s what I have to do on my Arcam A85. If I want to listen to my CD player which is connected to the Arcam all I have to do is press a little button on the back to revert the Arcam back to being an integrated amp and not just a power amp.
 

inicholson

Active Member
I can’t quite work out why you’ve been told to put the pre-outs from your AV amp to the amp you’re planning to use as a power amp’s video in, when you say the amp has pre-in’s?

Connect the pre-outs on the AV amp to the pre-in’s on your power amp. Doing it that way means you don’t have to touch the volume on the power amp, your AV amp’s volume will control everything.

I wondered about that, but never having owned a combined amp with pre-ins I wasn't sure so din't like to suggest it in case I was responsible for breaking something!

Presumably I could do a similar trick with my Yammy DSP-E800 and pre/power amps. I can take the front L/R outputs from the Yammy (which currently go to the pre amp) and connect them directly to the power amps?

I'm pretty sure my power amps only have one input so i'd have to make/buy a split lead to connect my stereo pre-amp and my Yammy to the same input. Is there any danger of doing any harm here. Like if I have both the stereo pre-amp and the Yammy switched on at the same time? Am I trying to put a signal into the output side of my pre-amp/Yammy? Would it be safer to make/buy some kind of switchbox to select a pre-amp?

If it works it'd be worth doing as setting the volume on my pre-amp is a real hassle. It has buttons instead of a dial and although it's supposed to have a memory it keeps forgetting (my memory isn't what it was either - we're both getting on a bit!) and the "Mem" button acts as a mute.
 

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