Initial setup settings between Wharfedale and Denon AVC X3700H causing volume issues?

ramu3060

Novice Member
Hi All, I recently bought my first 5.1ch system with Wharfedale Dx-2 5.1 speakers and Denon AVC X3700H AV receiver with LG C1 TV. As i am fairly new to home theatre system, I am having low volume issues in setting up my system correctly.
AV and TV are connected via 2.1 HDMI in both eARC ports and Fire tv stick attached in AV input- media player. I have done Audyssey calibration and will attach screenshots of levels and crossovers below. After spending longtime reading this forum, i adjusted wharfedale all speakers to 100hz and subwoofer at 120hz. I am only watching TV apps and fire tv stick currently and later input Nintendo switch. I live in top floor flat and listen at volume scale of 14-20 in Fire tv stick prime video and youtube. I had to manually increase all source levels and channel levels atleast 3-4db to listen at above volume scale however centre speaker volume is low. Situation gets worse when i watch a same music track or movie ex: Dunkirk in TV apps: Youtube and Prime video eventhough same settings are applied to TV audio. I have to bump another 15 units in volume scale to get same sound but still centre speaker dialogue is low. I have decent bass and dynamic compression at heavy helps but when compared to fire tv stick and LG tv app settings i always have to change volume to get same sound with not enough audible dialogue.
Am i watching in low volume scale? and should i keep Audyssey calibrated settings same and listen at 35-45 volume scale? Not sure what is wrong in my setup.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Many Thanks
 

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Jester1066

Well-known Member
Hi welcome to the forum!

Firstly, can you change your volume scale on your AVR from its current "absolute" (0-99) setting to the dB scale option. Here's how to do it:

Press "Setup"
select "Audio", then "Volume"
Change to the "dB scale"

Doing this will help members see how close to calibrated reference level (which is 0dB), you listen to various sources (eg Prime etc).

As an example on my calibrated Denon 4500 (which uses the same version of Audessey as your 3700), My listening levels (for various sources are as follows):

Broadcast TV (BBC1 etc) = -20dB to -10dB (depending on the channel. Some are naturally mixed louder than others)

Prime/Netflix (Apps) -20dB to -10dB

4K/Bluray Discs - -30dB to - 20dB

You'll see that the volume level get lower (bigger number) the better quality the source (ie bluray). This variation in volume is typical across sources as the quality of the recorded audio varies. Poorer recorded material (usually broadcast TV has to be turned up louder than say Bluray discs).

Looking at your screenshots, I'd try the following as well:

1. Return all your speakers to the level that Audessey calibrated them.
2. Turn Off "Dynamic Volume"

Then post back your listening levels as shown in the dB scale for each source you watch. As I did above.

It's worth noting the 0dB (or Reference) level volume is considered extremely loud and most people would have difficulty listening at this level for prolonged periods.

If you do the above, it will help establish is your system is "behaving" correctly. I would expect to see similar volume levels for the various sources as I posted above.

After this, you can always tweek the the volume levels per source if necessary. I'm happy to show you how if needed!

Hope this helps
 

ramu3060

Novice Member
Hi welcome to the forum!

Firstly, can you change your volume scale on your AVR from its current "absolute" (0-99) setting to the dB scale option. Here's how to do it:

Press "Setup"
select "Audio", then "Volume"
Change to the "dB scale"

Doing this will help members see how close to calibrated reference level (which is 0dB), you listen to various sources (eg Prime etc).

As an example on my calibrated Denon 4500 (which uses the same version of Audessey as your 3700), My listening levels (for various sources are as follows):

Broadcast TV (BBC1 etc) = -20dB to -10dB (depending on the channel. Some are naturally mixed louder than others)

Prime/Netflix (Apps) -20dB to -10dB

4K/Bluray Discs - -30dB to - 20dB

You'll see that the volume level get lower (bigger number) the better quality the source (ie bluray). This variation in volume is typical across sources as the quality of the recorded audio varies. Poorer recorded material (usually broadcast TV has to be turned up louder than say Bluray discs).

Looking at your screenshots, I'd try the following as well:

1. Return all your speakers to the level that Audessey calibrated them.
2. Turn Off "Dynamic Volume"

Then post back your listening levels as shown in the dB scale for each source you watch. As I did above.

It's worth noting the 0dB (or Reference) level volume is considered extremely loud and most people would have difficulty listening at this level for prolonged periods.

If you do the above, it will help establish is your system is "behaving" correctly. I would expect to see similar volume levels for the various sources as I posted above.

After this, you can always tweek the the volume levels per source if necessary. I'm happy to show you how if needed!

Hope this helps
Hi, Thanks for your inputs and will revert speaker levels to Audessey calibration which means do you suggest to revert the crossovers aswell which were 80, 80, 60 centre from Audesssey? I have changed them all to 100hz.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Hi, Thanks for your inputs and will revert speaker levels to Audessey calibration which means do you suggest to revert the crossovers aswell which were 80, 80, 60 centre from Audesssey? I have changed them all to 100hz.
Yep I would to start with. They can always be adjusted again.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The DX2s are very small sealed speakers with tiny 3" drivers and require ton of power to go loud. The center channel has two drivers and is ported. The usual recommendations what i remember seeing in reviews were to set them to 120hz especially if you play them louder. They are going to be struggling anyway.

That is lot of boosting and also the dynamic volume on heavy. Subwoofer went from -5db to +5db. Yikes! I wonder are the speakers just too tiny for the room? I also question the decision to buy fairly expensive X3700H receiver with such cheap speakers and tiny sub which is now boosted 10db?, that is not the most balanced system.

Can you give some idea how large room you have and what is the viewing distance from couch to tv?
 

ramu3060

Novice Member
The DX2s are very small sealed speakers with tiny 3" drivers and require ton of power to go loud. The center channel has two drivers and is ported. The usual recommendations what i remember seeing in reviews were to set them to 120hz especially if you play them louder. They are going to be struggling anyway.

That is lot of boosting and also the dynamic volume on heavy. Subwoofer went from -5db to +5db. Yikes! I wonder are the speakers just too tiny for the room? I also question the decision to buy fairly expensive X3700H receiver with such cheap speakers and tiny sub which is now boosted 10db?, that is not the most balanced system.

Can you give some idea how large room you have and what is the viewing distance from couch to tv?
Hi, Thanks for your inputs.
My living room is 5.45m×3.35m with couch against the back wall and viewing distance of 2.65m as TV is wall mounted above fireplace to chimney breast. You may have noticed in screenshots both front speakers are positioned to front wall behind TV due to chimney breast which was the only option to save space. Also, i live in 1st floor flat and being mindful of downstairs neighbours, in general we listen rarely at loud volumes atleast 5-10db less during night. Subwoofer level also seems to be fine after changing crossovers but i guess if extra bass needed i can adjust channel level to +3db.

As far as speakers concerned, i didn't know much about driver size and power output relative to Denon receiver. Main reason was budget and how good the wharfedale are given at that price.

After Jester 1066 recommendations, i have changed to db scale and reset levels to Audyssey recommended calibration which seems to have settled now. I bought all speakers to 80, 80, 60hz and listening between -40db -30db for different sources. Centre speaker dialogue seems to be audible enough relative to other sounds produced during music tracks/movies.

I am still toying around with Cinema EQ for different sources as some sounds are felt which are normally not heard with it off. Also not sure if combination of Cinema EQ ON and dynamic volume ON at light will cause any sound distortion but still trying to figure out what works best.
Please let me know your thoughts on above and thanks again.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
You may have noticed in screenshots both front speakers are positioned to front wall behind TV due to chimney breast which was the only option to save space.
The left and right speaker position certainly isn't helping. The DX2's have keyhole screw type mounts. You could get a pair of adjustable speaker brackets such as these:

deleyCON 2x Universal Speaker Wall Mounts Loudspeaker Wall Mountings Tilt + Swivel up to 10 Kg Load Weight Ceiling Mounting + Wall Fitting - Black Amazon product

Then you'll be able to mount the brackets on the side wall of the chimney breast, which would bring the speakers forward a bit. The could also do with being mounted lower down.

As an example I use the same brackets to mount my Alteco C1's (which I use for atmos and also have keyhole mounts. This picture - not of my actual setup - shows how the brackets work:

IMG_6595.jpg


The brackets can be angled using the universal ball joint shown.
 

ramu3060

Novice Member
Hi welcome to the forum!

Firstly, can you change your volume scale on your AVR from its current "absolute" (0-99) setting to the dB scale option. Here's how to do it:

Press "Setup"
select "Audio", then "Volume"
Change to the "dB scale"

Doing this will help members see how close to calibrated reference level (which is 0dB), you listen to various sources (eg Prime etc).

As an example on my calibrated Denon 4500 (which uses the same version of Audessey as your 3700), My listening levels (for various sources are as follows):

Broadcast TV (BBC1 etc) = -20dB to -10dB (depending on the channel. Some are naturally mixed louder than others)

Prime/Netflix (Apps) -20dB to -10dB

4K/Bluray Discs - -30dB to - 20dB

You'll see that the volume level get lower (bigger number) the better quality the source (ie bluray). This variation in volume is typical across sources as the quality of the recorded audio varies. Poorer recorded material (usually broadcast TV has to be turned up louder than say Bluray discs).

Looking at your screenshots, I'd try the following as well:

1. Return all your speakers to the level that Audessey calibrated them.
2. Turn Off "Dynamic Volume"

Then post back your listening levels as shown in the dB scale for each source you watch. As I did above.

It's worth noting the 0dB (or Reference) level volume is considered extremely loud and most people would have difficulty listening at this level for prolonged periods.

If you do the above, it will help establish is your system is "behaving" correctly. I would expect to see similar volume levels for the various sources as I posted above.

After this, you can always tweek the the volume levels per source if necessary. I'm happy to show you how if needed!

Hope this helps
Hi,
After bringing back all levels and crossover frequency to Audyssey recommendations the volume db levels fall for

Fire TV stick prime & Youtube: 35db to -30db
LG Tv app prime & Youtube: -30db to -25db
Bluray movie: -40db to -35db
Dynamic volume off

As mentioned to Gasp3621, i am toying around with cinema EQ ON to see how it produces sound with various sources on it's own and in combination with Dynamic volume ON Light.

I rarely push past -25db during day and definitely not at night. The higher range db level is comfortable and lower end is slightly loud (explosions/bullet sounds)for our listening experience with family and downstairs neighbours with small children.

Overall, your inputs really helped to balance out the system and help me understand few settings of both the systems.

Very much appreciated. Thanks
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I bought all speakers to 80, 80, 60hz and listening between -40db -30db for different sources.
These are way lower than what would be ideal to use. You do get some reinforcement from boundary, but i would still consider raising the speaker crossovers 100-120hz for all cause you are asking them to play lower than what manufacturer says. The listening volumes you described are all normal and the room / viewing distance is normal aswell so all good there, just wanted to check.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
These are way lower than what would be ideal to use. You do get some reinforcement from boundary, but i would still consider raising the speaker crossovers 100-120hz for all cause you are asking them to play lower than what manufacturer says. The listening volumes you described are all normal and the room / viewing distance is normal aswell so all good there, just wanted to check.
Yep play with the crossover now we know your listen levels are "normal" - changing the volume scale to dB helped establish this.

Further to my bracket suggestion, you could also either:

Buy some cheap 60cm high speaker stands, or install some small shelves in the alcove to bring the left & right speakers forward, so they sit flush with the front edge of the chimney breast. This will help reduce sound reflection and likely improve sound further.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Personally I would have dynamic EQ off as I think it exaggerates the surrounds too much, especially at night. I also use dynamic volume on medium which helps with the dialogue from the centre speaker. When you change the DV setting don't expect an immediate change, I have found it takes a few seconds to make a difference on my X2100.
 

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