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Infocus 777 colour gamut

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by mwebb, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. mwebb

    mwebb
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    Whilst acknowledging the limitations ;) of the AV press, and not suggesting anything be bought unseen, I was perplexed by the following:

    In the Hi-Fi News AV Tech Nov 04 the 777 was criticised for having dark orange reds. In the current Widescreen Review no such observation was made. Given that both publications purport to be carrying out similar measurements on post calibration units, what gives? Bad measurement, differences between individual units, something else?

    Does anyone have direct experience of the 777 and can comment on the colour range please?

    Mark W.
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Mark: Do either actually show the measurements for the primaries...and the secondaries. You need to know that the correct points for HD, NTSC and PAL are all different. Red is more Orange in NTSC land for a start so what would be wrong for us is correct for them.

    Ideally you'd want a display device to be able to cover a larger gamut than any you actually want to display and that it would be able to electronically process the incoming signal to re-map to the correct gamut inside. IE you create memories with the three correct gamuts we might use. The Joe Kane Samsung DLP that never ever seems to see the light of day does this....it's pretty cool....

    You can do a similar trick with a Terranex and some software....and with some Snell and Wilcox stuff I believe.

    Hope this is some use,

    Gordon
     
  3. mwebb

    mwebb
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    Both write-ups incorporate CIE x,y charts. The AV Tech one doesn't state which standard for primaries is marked for reference, but Widescreen Review uses HDTV. The AV Tech chart shows red being well within the "reference lines". Certainly markedly more so than the difference between NTSC and HDTV red. Widescreen Review have the red co-ordinate just outside the line.

    Mark W.
     
  4. RTFM

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    Does anyone have direct experience of the 777 and can comment on the colour range please?

    Mark W.[/QUOTE]

    Mark,

    I don't have any experience with the 777 but have had a Sim2 HT500 Link for some time now and find the colours very natural.
    Watching "Seabiscuit" in HD from a Uvem HCPC on the 500 Link is an unforgettable experience
    :)

    Jeff :rtfm:
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I saw the AV-TECH article while in a dealers yesterday. Looking at it I noted that the secondary colours for the 777 and the Marantz were both incorrect for the gamut of colour they produce. I don't know whether there are CMY adjustments on these units to fix this. I also saw that the 777 has a few different colour gamuts to choose from and that they picked the largest (not necessarly the same one that Widescreen Review may have chosen)

    I think that you are going to have to go look for yourself if you can find a dealer with one to view. I would also check out the HT500 like Jeff says.

    Gordon
     
  6. mwebb

    mwebb
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    I have seen the HT500 under demo conditions and was happy with the colours, but did notice a lot of non-MPEG like "scintillation" in the backgrounds. This was only the second 3 chip DLP I've seen (the first the Barco at Guildford last year), so don't know if that's usual?

    I know you can always wait, but I was rather hoping that an HD2+ (or better) 3 chip model would be out soon. A bit cheaper wouldn't hurt either. ;-)
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The Barco at The Event was basically broken. It was an embarressment to me, PJ HiFi and Mark from Barco. Having seen one of the first production versions I can say that it was a different planet to the thing at the Event.....but it still had some serious issues.....Currently in the UK the HT500 would be the one I'd be looking at.

    Gordon
     
  8. mwebb

    mwebb
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    Do your industry contacts provide any insight as to when the next generation will be available? I know we've waited a long time for this first generation, but it can't take long to wack the latest generation of HD2 chips in surely?

    One area I prefer the 777 over the HT500 on paper is the vertical offset available; 60% vs. 50%. If I'm reading this correctly it will allow me to get the top of the screen further away from the ceiling.
     
  9. mwebb

    mwebb
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    Sorry to answer my own post, but no sooner had I sent it than I noticed that the next generation of HT500 (the HT500-E) has been announced with HD2+ DarkChip2.
     
  10. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Mark,

    I'd be interested to hear what SIM and Infocus have to say about this. The mechanics of the current 3 chips are all from same supplier...as are the lenses( at least that is my understanding). As you reach extremes of lens shift you start to get abberations and, in some cases, actual image cropping. It may be that SIM2 choose to be conservative with their specs. I have used another manufacturers unit at full lens shift (vertical) and it's not that clever.....I've also seen a well respected manufacturers single chip PJ with lens shift that is a mess before it even gets close to its end stops......USE WITH CAUTION....

    Gordon
     
  11. mwebb

    mwebb
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    Personally this is a bit worrying as my room dictates a significant offset (forced by the need to ceiling mount). Am I unusal in this, or is it a common problem?
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I suspect most folk choose to use long throw lens options and stick them on back wall.

    You may have to use combination of pole mount and lens shift.

    Gordon
     
  13. Paulholio

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    I've saw many a 3-chip including the 777 and the RUNCO. Put simply......dont listen to all these mad stats, go see the thing for yourself...its amazing :thumbsup:
     
  14. mwebb

    mwebb
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    Always the best advice, I know. Unfortunately they don't carry these on demo in may places (i.e. any that I know of). I am however GREATLY looking forward to seeing the HT500E. Salivate... ;)
     
  15. mwebb

    mwebb
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    I'm sure you're right. It would still be useful to be able to get the projector mounted close to/on the ceiling without requiring the top of the screen to be near the ceiling too. IMHO this puts the picture too far above the plane of the front speakers.

    Perhaps my particular issue with this is that I've got lowish ceiling and so cracking your head on a pole mounted projector is a distinct probability for my 6'4". Obviously I wouldn't resourt to digital keystone correction under any circumstances. I guess this is another area where CRT has the edge?
     
  16. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I'm not sure about CRTs haveing an advantage with placement - they have a fixed angle of projection (like many digital pjs) and no zoom as far as I know, so they're more restricted I think.

    Gordon knows better than me in this respect so hopefully he'll put me right. :)

    RTFM has a Sim2 HT500 with the new HD2+ chips, and that has a noticably better black level than the HD2 version. Post any questions you have about it in the Sim2 forum and he'll be able to answer them for you. He's in Horsham Surrey if you want a demo with an 88inch wide 16:9 screen in a fully light controlled room with 18% grey walls. Hi Def looks pretty amazing on this machine. :)

    Gary.
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    CRT's have a fixed focal lenght but they have massive geometric correction capablities. That's justs one of the reasons they continue to be used in massive simulation facilities.

    Gordon
     
  18. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Thanks Gordon. :)

    Gary.
     
  19. RTFM

    RTFM
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    Couple of corrections Gary. Horsham is in West Sussex and the screen is 104 inches wide :)

    Jeff :rtfm:
     
  20. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    oops. :blush:

    Sorry Jeff.

    I meant 8ft 8ins not 88ins. :)

    Gary.
     

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