1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Infocus 4805 v,s Panasonic PT AE700

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by jasonft, Apr 18, 2005.

  1. jasonft

    jasonft
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    After looking through the forum and doing a bit of research these 2 pj,s seem to get good reviews. Can anyone advise me as to which PJ is the best for the money or indeed recomend a unit which gives the best all round performance for a maximum budget of £1200.

    I must add that I am a complete and utter novice and really dont understand anything technical regarding pj,s but you have got to start somewhere.

    I am looking to set up ahome cinema and think the projector is the best place to start.

    All advice is appreciated.

    Thanks

    Jason
     
  2. phillfyspoon

    phillfyspoon
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    2,128
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +76
    I have the panasonic and I am thrilled with it. I think it is the best bet for a couple of reasons: The 4805 has a low speed colour wheel so more likely you will see the rainbow effect. It has a lower resolution the panasonic has true HD res and zero screendoor effect.

    Get a demo though you never know what image u will like but i garantee u wont be disapointed.
     
  3. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    It's very difficult to buy a poor PJ nowadays. Starting from £360 upwards you can get some great machines (for the price).

    You will never find "the best PJ for the money", they all have strengths and weaknesses.

    The 4805 is DLP.

    The 700 is LCD.

    Both fine machines but different in many ways.

    You won't go wrong with the 4805 as long as you aren't one of the minority who is bothered by rainbows.

    People rave about the 700 but it seems to be very much a peer to the Hitachi PJTX100 which can be bought for cheaper.

    All I can say is that you've taken the major step by deciding to buy one. Be prepared to be WOWed!

    ...PJ :)
     
  4. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,568
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Woking
    Ratings:
    +230
    The 4805 has very recently been knocked off it's DLP bargain perch by the new Optoma H30A which retails for the same money ( £999 approx) but has an even better specification ( 850 lumens brightness compared to the 4805's 750 lumens and 3000:1 contrast ratio compared to the 4805's 2200:1). The only possible area the 4805 may be better is in it's video processing/de-interlacing capabilities having a top of the range Faroudja inside which the Optoma doesn't. From the reviews I've seen though, the Optoma still outshines the 4805.
    I myself own a 4805 and I think it is fantastic so I'm not knocking it. It's just that technology moves so fast that after barely a year at the top, the 4805 has been toppled.
    DLP's biggest drawback is in the rainbow effect. Contrary to phillfyspoon,s comment about it having a slow colour wheel, it actually has a 6 segment, 4x speed colour wheel which is rare on a projector in this price range ( they usually have a 4 segment, 2x speed wheel). I saw a few rainbows on even fewer movies when I first got the pj, but now I'm either used to them, don't look for them or they aren't there because I never see them anymore.
    The Panny's major issue is with Verticle Banding ( verticle lines alternating light and dark across the image) This doesn't appear to affect all AE700's but many do report this problem. Apparently it is a fault with the Epsom LCD chips used in both the Panasonic AE range and the Sanyo Z range of projectors and is not a fault with all LCD projectors.
    As I would say with anyone contemplating spending that much money on a projector, audition if at all possible first because you may not be able to return it if you notice any of these problems once you have it home.
    The AE700 has a higher resolution and uses 'Smoothscreen' technology to remove the visible pixelation usually found with LCD projectors. I have heard that this basically 'de-focuses' the image slightly and some have complained that they cannot get the image really sharply focused because of this but I have not seen one in action so cannot state this as fact.
    The 4805 has a better contrast than the AE700 and although it has a lower resolution, DLP by it's nature does not show the pixelation as much as LCD so for general DVD use, the 4805 can still produce a very detailed image. I would say both offer magnificent performance for the money and so long as you do not get one that you suffer the above mentioned possible problems with, you'll be blown away with either. If High Definition is something that gets you going, then you may prefer the AE700. If you really are only interested in DVDs then the 4805 is equally impressive.
     
  5. monopole

    monopole
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Here are some of my observations:

    I demoed a 4805. It produced a lovely, smooth image, though I found it to be a bit dull unless in total darkness... I could see rainbows, but the thing that really put me off was the fatigue/headache it caused along with a very visible panel structure (I figure if you're going to get a projector, there's no point having a small image just to get rid of screen door).

    So then I turned to the Panny AE700 and ended up buying one. I have a 2.3m wide image and sit 2.6m away from it - in white scenes you can sometimes make out the screen door, but the smoothscreen works very well indeed at minimising it (it makes the screen door look light grey compared to the deep black of non smoothscreen projectors). That's also why I believe screen door is more apparant on the low resolution DarkChip2 DLP projectors (like the infocus 4805 and optoma H30A) - the screen door is very black - presumably because of the enhanced contrast ratio of the HD2+ chip combined with the extra "blackness" of the gaps between the mirrors on the DMD - so it stands out more, which means you have to sit further away or make the image smaller to reduce the effect). Of course, this is all down to personal preference - there's no projector out there which will suit all people.

    A note about the smoothscreen on the AE700 - it's definitely not like defocusing the image - if you look at a computer desktop on this PJ, or an image of a pixel grid, the pixels appear absolutely sharp - but the gaps between the pixels are light grey. Having a well defined screen door often makes an image seem sharper than it is - similar to the way a sharpness control can make you think you're seeing more detail when you're not. The AE700 is most certainly not soft.

    Vertical banding does appear from time to time on my AE700, but it's fleeting when it does appear and always very faint (firmware 1.07).

    Also, I've been amazed by high definition video - I've already downloaded a couple of HD movies (which I already own on DVD) and the difference between DVD and HD has to be seen to be believed. And if you're a gamer, HD is a no brainer (especially with a PC or an Xbox with a hi-def kit).

    And I can't say enough about lens shift - it's given me so much flexibility - want to watch a poorly encoded TV show? Just crank back the zoom to make the image smaler and lower the image down... Or if you're trying to get the image onto a fixed or pulldown screen, lens shift lets you position the image beautifully. All projectors should have lens shift as far as I'm concerned.

    As with all things, it's best if you can get a demo. However, I'm sure that whatever projector you buy for around £1000, you'll be utterly amazed with the results.
     
  6. mr ooops

    mr ooops
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,592
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Hardwicke and Wotton
    Ratings:
    +353
    have a look at the z3 aswell, can be picked up for £1k now leaving you £200 of your budget for screen and some cables,
     
  7. mason

    mason
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,049
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Stirling
    Ratings:
    +131
    I am another fan of the AE700.

    I just installed one about two weeks back and I am well chuffed with the results. I havent even tweaked the settings yet but the picture on normal settings (factory set) are superb.

    I have no colour issues, no vertical banding problems and the picture is very sharp indeed.

    I havent seen much of the 4805 to be fair but all DLP machines that I saw (and I seen a few at the Bristol show) where suffering from rainbow city!! As many people have said in the past, not everyone suffers from seeing them but we saw them on every machine. In some occasions I we where just walking by some of the rooms and glancing in and we could see them....... but again its personal preference, you might not see them.

    As for the Z3, my mate (Adrenochrome) has just got one and it appears to take more set up time and a bit more tweaking to get it to the quality of the AE700 (in my opinion). The biggest show up is VB- but I believe that with a bit of attention on the set up these can be smoothed out.
     
  8. jasonft

    jasonft
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0

    Thanks for your advice, I tend to think as with all things in life the more you pay the better your purchase, maybe this is the case here.
     
  9. jasonft

    jasonft
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0

    Thanks
     
  10. citrac

    citrac
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    96
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    I auditioned the 4805 at sevenoaks Glasgow today, and it is fantastic to my eyes. I am hoping to audition the ae700 and hitachi ptx 100?. I couldn't see rainbows and I think i'm fussy due to a previous job checking quality of pictures among other things. Is it true that people who wear glasses see rainbows more? My wife gets weird effects in the cinema, especially when she is wearing contacts.

    Is there anywhere in or near glasgow to audition the ae700 and the hitachi?
     
  11. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,568
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Woking
    Ratings:
    +230
    I wear glasses and hardly ever see rainbows. I have heard that people with blue eyes see them more though. Personally I think if you have an image so big that your eyes have to scan from left to right to take it all in then this movement will cause you to see rainbows. My image is 80 inches wide from about 12 foot back and this seems ideal. The image fills my vision but isn't so big that I'm looking left to right to take it all in !!!. That's my theory anyway.
     
  12. Adrenochrome

    Adrenochrome
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    8,761
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Babel Sensurround
    Ratings:
    +207
    I'm pretty sure there is a Shop@Panasonic in Paisley give them a call to see if they have one on display
     
  13. cyberheater

    cyberheater
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    Messages:
    3,186
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Scotland
    Ratings:
    +170
    Alternatively. Why don't you ignore the huge amount of great reviews for DLP machines and go for a LCD machine because the guys on this forums have convinced you that your head will explode due to rainbows etc...
     
  14. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Jason had already asked this question on another thread, to which I replied:

    The reason I gave this advice, is that threads just degenerate into the DLP vs LCD (again, and again, and again :rolleyes: ). Unfortunately, within 20 minutes, you have posted exactly the same question, and the thread has degenerated into the old argument again.

    Can we please establish that the rainbow problem can be overplayed by the LCD owners, as much as underplayed by the DLP owners. Therefore, the only way to be sure is to DEMO both, and make you own decision. If you can't, then there is enough of this argument already on the forum, without having to go into it again on every 'vs' thread.

    Rant over :devil:
     
  15. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    I agree this is so tiresome.

    UrbanT you sum it up perfectly, LCD owners overplay rainbows, DLP underplay them.

    Anyway, just to complicate things further, unless the 700 has come down in price to around 1K, if you are gonna try LCD I think you'd be better going for either the Hitachi PJTX100 of the Sanyo Z3 (which I think is now available for 1K).

    In comparative reviews the 700 tends to get the nod over the Z3, and the TX tends to get the nod over the 700. But there's not much in it.

    In a recent TV comparison of the TX100 vs the 4805, people preferred the TX100.

    These comparisons are always a bit of a lottery, what they do prove is that the machines' PQ are close - hence a difference of a few hundred quid becomes significant.

    With the Z3 having an extended warranty vs the Panny/Hitachi, I think that's a good buy now.

    If you are not botheread about lens shift or hi def then I'd definitely keep the 4805 or the Optoma H30a on your shortlist though.

    hence back to my opening statement "you'll find it difficult buying a poor PJ"

    ...PJ :)
     
  16. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,577
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Bristol.
    Ratings:
    +321
    Hey, as a SIM2 owner, can I ask "What is a rainbow?" ;)

    Pete.
     
  17. MikeK

    MikeK
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,231
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +316
    In comparative reviews the 700 tends to get the nod over the Z3, and the TX tends to get the nod over the 700. But there's not much in it.

    Surely you mean

    In comparative reviews, the 700 tends to get the nod over the Z3, and the Z3 tends to get the nod over the TX. But there's not much in it.

    :D :D :D
     
  18. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    Well, I've not seen that many comparative tests, and as I said they are largely much of a muchness. I'm sure there are tests out there that place the 700 / Z3 / TX in a variety of orders, which proves at the very least that there's not a chasm betwen them.

    The tests I'm thinking of are the cine4home.de which placed the TX ahead of the 700 and Z3 and only behind the HS50. Also a recent Home Cinema Choice test placed the 700 ahead of the Z3 and 4805, the TX wasn't tested.

    ...PJ :)
     
  19. Louis Mazzini

    Louis Mazzini
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    317
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +32
    PJ, yes, it's tiresome - for those of us that have heard the arguments a hundred times before. To anyone new to this game, however, I do think it's important that they are made very aware of this major potential problem with single-chip DLPs. It seems to me that forums like this are the best place to find out about this problem (as well as LCD's problems too, of course...), because the specialist AV magazines tend to ignore it to a shocking degree.

    As far as the question goes, I would think that most people interested in large screen film watching with the best possible picture quality are automatically the type of people who will want to get hold of a high def disc player as soon as they can. With that in mind, I'd advise from now on steering clear of anything less than 1280 x 720 resolution. So that rules out the 4805 (along with most other sub £3,000 DLPs...)
     
  20. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Loius, the tiresome part isn't the information, but the fact that it is continually debated. So rather than continually argue the same points, a simple search of the forum will bring forth all of the relevant information :)
     
  21. Louis Mazzini

    Louis Mazzini
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    317
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +32
    But it's an evolving debate, isn't it? Infocus says, "Look! We've got loads more segements in the colour-wheel, and speeded it up again, so no more rainbows!" I say, "Brilliant, well done. It doesn't work though..."
     
  22. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    But thats the point, it doesn't evolve. We just repeat the same arguments over and over
     
  23. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,568
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Woking
    Ratings:
    +230
    It is difficult to recommend any pj without mentioning the possible problems associated with it's technology though isn't it. I mean I could say buy the 4805 because it has a fantastic image and then someone goes out and buys it on my advice ( very bad idea!) and then comes back here and says.." Hey, you said the 4805 is great but all I see are these flashes of rainbow colours and it gives me such headaches"
    So I think it is important that when you recommend a projector you also warn of any potential problems. Until the day we have a 1920x1080 resolution, 10000:1 contrast ratio, 3 chip, silent DLP projector with lens shift, drop dead gorgeous looks and a price tag of £1200, then we will always find areas to criticise with any projector.
    If there is one piece of advice that cannot be stated enough it is to AUDITION any potential purchase and decide for yourself.
    But I am in total agreement with UrbanT about the continual debating that goes on between the LCD and the DLP camps on here. When will you face reality and agree that DLP wipes the floor with LCD !!!
    ( I am jesting !!)
     
  24. theritz

    theritz
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,451
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Danny,

    ....... we'll be looking at very oddly shaped screens....... :D


    S.
     
  25. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,568
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Woking
    Ratings:
    +230
    Ooops !!! :suicide:
     
  26. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    Well if it hits the other criteria for the money, I'd be willing to get my masking tape out!

    :D ...PJ
     

Share This Page

Loading...