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Info wanted on Kef Ref 2.2's & Ref Centres

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Mark Ward, Mar 10, 2002.

  1. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    TDM34DS surrounds ordered so now looking at the offers around on the Kef Reference 2's.

    1.2 & 3.2 got great reviews, I haven't seen ANY reviews on the 2.2 Model. Does anyone have any experience or information about these?

    The 3.2's are really beyond my budget and also physically a bit too big for my room.

    Also..

    Which would be better for Centre... a Model 100 New or a Model 200 Ex-Dem? To go with Q55's at the moment but Ref 1.2's or 2.2's by May '02.

    Cheers,

    Mark.
     
  2. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Mark

    What is your budget, there are some great deals to be had on this at the moment. I paid £2.5k instead of £3.8k for 4-2s.

    By the way everyone has their favourites in the range!;)
     
  3. Cam

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    Mark,

    I tried Ref 2.2's as I was looking to replace my Ref 1's and also tried both the Ref 100 (I was using it previously with the Ref 1's) and a Ref 200 that I borrowed from a pal. The 100 suited the 2.2's perfectly and the 200 was not as crisp or tonally matched(though it produced more bass). I would advise if you are getting model 1.1's or 2.2's to get a Ref 100 centre.In my room (16'x13') the model 1's sounded better than the 2.2's but the pal I borrowed the 200 center from has just bought the 2.2's I was offered and they sound superb in his room (20'x14).All the Kefs seem to sound best in larger rooms.
    In the end I got seduced by a great offer on a Kef THX package ex demo and as I already had a pair of TDM34DS's I was all set for the arrival of my Denon A1SE.
    HTH
    Cam
     
  4. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    My Budget is to spend around £1000-£1200. It's not just limited by available funds but also by the wife annoyance factor, both on money spent and room space. My birthday's in May and my Dad has offered to put a chunck towards them.

    I've seen 1.2's at £800 & 2.2's at £1200.

    The choice between 1.2's and 2.2's is more to do with physical size. Although my room is around 24ft by 14ft (must measure it one day!), we sit across the middle of it and it's the main living room. I'd love to go for the 3.2's but they're just a bit too large.

    My worry was the the reason I haven't seen the 2.2 reviews was they the speaker may not have been as good as the 1.2's.

    As far as the Centre goes, I've seen a Model 100 ex-dem for £170 so I think that's made my mind up there, couldn't really see me getting away with putting a model 200 on my 32" set!

    I though about these also, but was put off by reports of the limitations with musical sources.

    Mark.
     
  5. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The prices you seem to working to are right given the current situation. The 100c is the best match with the 1-2 and 2-2. Use the 200c for the 3-2 and 4-2.

    Are you using a sub, if you are then you may not need the extra bass performance from a 2-2. Typically an AV sub will work from 80hz down, these sopeakes are capable down to the low 40hz.
     
  6. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    re different quality through the rang. With the original range (version 1s) there was some variation, however with the series 2 we are talking about here then the range is very consistent. I once did some measurement on either the 2-2 or 3-2, can't remember which, it was the flatest frequency response of any loudspeaker I have seen. This is pretty true of the whole range. You pays you money......Personally I have a soft spot for the 2-2, a good balance of size vs performance.
     
  7. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Thanks for the input Nic
    I'm currently using a mediocre Yamaha YST-SW120. My system sounds better with it on than off so it stays. B&W 2500 or Rel 150 are in my future plans.

    2.2's will now be my focus for mains, cheers!

    Mark.
     
  8. Plump

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    Hi Mark,
    are you sure you do not work for KEF?
    being just around the corner you might pop in there and do some hearing tests.
    Seven years ago they did not complain when I was there.
    Cheers
    Plump
     
  9. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Wouldn't mind the staff discounts ;)

    Seriously, I love Kef speakers, I bought my first pair in 1979 (aged 15) and other than a Sub have only bought Kef ever since (Cantours, Coda's Q's). I've auditioned other makes everytime, but at the price point I keep coming back to Kefs.

    The new Ref series are out of my league pricewise so I'm hunting for some Ref2.2's while they're still around.

    I've never been there but a very nice man from Kef came to my house a few months back (he goes past my door on his way home) to look at my future HT room and see what he thought I should do with it.

    Currently I'm in the family living room with my kit, but I have a HUGE room waiting to be turned into a dedicated HT. Previously I'd held off on upgrading kit because I knew I wanted to move to the big room. Problem is I just don't have the money to do up & kit out this room. Maybe Kef could use a new large demo room local to them? Just a thought! ;)

    My next HT room

    Mark.
     
  10. Plump

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    I see . . .
    This room dies for some TAG gear and Kef speakers . Isn't it so Rhodes?
    And that pool table (can't be snooker?) - You lucky one! Man, wanna change? :) , I may put my house, wife and my ref two's on the top! Kid stays with me - Deal?

    No kidding, You can really put Ref Two's in there and add on the Sub later if necessary. I find them as main speakers in my setup more than enough for my 30 square meters (living) room. For music definitely, for home cinema one good sub will be no bad upgrade. If nothing else you can always move Ref Two's to the back once you won on the races or when that rich old cousin you knew nothing about passes away. Until then Ref Four's from Rhodes will be for sale anyway!

    Cheers and enjoy your new room soon
    Plump
     
  11. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    An interesting side line on bass and these KEF Ref speakers. KEF deliberately bass limit the speakers and therefore although the 4-2 are large, they don’t go as low as people think they might, given their size and dual 10 inch woofers (2 of the 6 drive units). The speakers appear to use a capacitor to artificially roll off the bass so the 4-2 go down to only about 35hz (-3dB). I think the other speakers in the range are similar. People always assume that these large speakers will plumb the depths. This is not so and is why a sub is recommended. It is also the reason why they work so damn well in the first place, they don’t try to do something they can’t. A lesson to other speaker builders here I think.

    PS Kef have Tag equipment as well!
     
  12. Cam

    Cam
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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In the end I got seduced by a great offer on a Kef THX package ex demo
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I though about these also, but was put off by reports of the limitations with musical sources.

    Yeah the THX set up is great for movies but lacks finesse when it comes to music. Model 2.2's would sound amazing in a room the size of yours and a Ref 100 centre will partner them perfectly.
    I have always been a Kef man as well and a big advocate of the UniQ driver. The only system that appeals to me other than Kef THX ( for movies ) and Ref's ( for music ) is the Meridian Digital Theatre but I will have to wait sometime before I can splash out £20k in one lump! The Mrs will only believe so much...hehe.
    Cam
     
  13. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Does Nic have something to do with Kef then?

    New Room The Other End :blush: We have snooker too! I bought the place VERY cheap and have spent 6 years so far doing it up. Pool table came free from my Dad when he moved to a smaller house and the Snooker table was £500 in the local paper.
    The Ref2.2s aren't for this room. I've decided it'll take too many years to get this room going so I'm upgrading my current HT with the Kef 2.2s/TDM34DSs/Model 100Center. For the new room it'll HAVE to be 4.2s

    Mark.Current HT Room
     
  14. Plump

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    Soon or a later they will be in there!
    I am playing it all thru ref2, 100c and q15 and apart from being "bitten by the bug and dreaming about upgrades all teh time" I really do not think I need much more at the moment. TAG DVD32r maybe . . . Hm, on the other thought no, not yet!
    And about Snooker - I am envious, I admit!

    Anyway, post something in here when you get all the stuff, might be interesting.
    Cheers
    Plump

    P.S. This about bass is correct, but as much as I know there have been slight changes between Ref Series one and two considering that issue.
     
  15. ilkand

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    What amp(s) does everyone use with their Kef stuff. I have a Sony amp, and (in a small room) my kef system does not sound that good to me I must admit. Still think Kef stuff is really cool though, even just to look at.

    Thanks
    Andy
     
  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I have no connections with KEF. I am just a long time customer (>20 years) who like KEF products but who get exasperated with the company support sometimes.
     
  17. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I'm 20years+ Kef customer too. Until recently I've had very little reason to call customer support but I've been extremely happy with the quality of the advice they've given me and the time they've taken.

    It's a shame you haven't had the same experiences as me.

    Mark.
     
  18. Plump

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    Just to add on something:
    My experiences are also ok! They are hard to reach and not really into all this web stuff but when you once get thru to them (best on the phone, directly) they are more than ok.
    Of course comparing their support to TAG or Arcam would be overrated, but they will hopefully have to realize it soon. At least as soon as WHF or someone else forgets one or more stars in their reviews.
    And even though i live faaaar away from UK they swapped some drivers free of charge for me (just in warranty) on some old stuff in my second setup (celeste4).

    As always it probably depends on the luck.
    Cheers
     
  19. Cam

    Cam
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    What amp(s) does everyone use with their Kef stuff.


    I use to use Audiolab amps ( 60s,100p and two 125m's) with my Kef Ref model 1's (m's), Ref 100 centre(60s) and 34DS's (100p) and now I am running a Denon AVCA1SE for my cinema room (Kef THX EX) and using the Audiolabs for my sound room after swapping the 60s and some cash for another pair of late model 125m's ( model 1's,100 centre and another pair of model 1's for surround).
    The Audiolabs seem to suit the Kefs but the Denon surprised me as it is so musical and a great one box solution...at a price.
    I have been a Kef customer for 21 years and have always found the technical backup (by phone) to be excellent.
    I am not a Kef employee either just a very satisfied customer!
    Cam
     
  20. ilkand

    ilkand
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    Do the Kef THX have a better midrange than the c100?
     
  21. Cam

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  22. ilkand

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    Did you set your c100 up as small and ref 1s as large? And what speaker cable do you use? I find that in my system the c100 does not have the same scale as my Q60s and the soundstage collapses. This could be a consequence of my amp or because the Q60s are not a perfect match. I would like to upgrade to ref 1s or 2s, but do not want to make a costly mistake.

    Thanks
    Andy
     
  23. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    At the risk of taking the thread even further off topic...

    I read in another thread recently that the Model 100 makes a much better partner to the bigger old Q's than the Q95c. Kef seem to think it'd make a fine match also.

    Another thought.... anyone considered the NEW Q-range's center the Q9C? How would it work with the older Q's?

    Mark.
     
  24. ilkand

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    Mark,
    sorry if i moved this thread off topic a bit - got carried away. The c100 may be a better match than the 95c for the big Q's, but it is not a good enough match in my opinion. The new 9c looks good I think - goes down to 50 hz apparantly - but I still have not seen it reviewed anywhere yet.
    Hope you like your kef dipoles. I use the 65ds which are also dipoles and I love them. Also auditioned the 34ds which were definitely better, but could not afford them.
     
  25. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    No worries to me, I enjoy these chats that ramble a bit. I was just acknowleding to the moderators that I'm aware I was branching even further away from the original topic.

    While we're here..
    I'd like a side-by-side comparison with the Model 100.

    Thanks, I'll be posting in another thread about these :)

    Mark.
     
  26. ilkand

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    How different are the 2.2's to the 2's? What was changed exactly? Similarly, how different are they to the 103/4's that they are based on? The main speakers change but the c100 just seems to keep going. Has it been updated but kept the same name? Mine is about 8 years old.

    Thanks
    Andy
     
  27. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Only change to the 100c I know is they removed the original magnetic badge that used to effect TV colour and put an ordinary badge on instead. Doooh.;)

    Why change the 100 and 200 when they were right in the first place?
     
  28. ilkand

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    I was simply wondering how the c100 could be considered a perfect tonal match for both the ref 2's and ref 2.2's if there were significant changes made to the ref 2's. If these changes were only minor then I would consider going for the ref 2's rather than the 2.2's which seem to be available at a better price.

    Thanks
    Andy
     
  29. GaryG

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    Cam

    Before you splash out on some more Audiolab amps have a listen to the WHJLH100A monoblocs at Williams Hart (ex technical director of Wilmslow Audio, www.williamshart.com). They're £675 each and comfortably outperform any amplifier in the Audiolab range (I sold my 125M's and replaced them with 5 JLH monoblocs with SE upgrades). They are terrific amps, nearly as good as my main L/R Krell monoblocs, can't recommend them enough and at the price they are an absolute steal. For a deposit Sean Williams will ship a pair out to you for an audition.
     
  30. Cam

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    I have heard a c100 coupled with both Ref 2 and 2.2's and it sounded great with both with a good soundstage and tonal balance.I think the main difference between the 2's and 2.2's is the latest incarnation of the UniQ is fitted to the 2.2's.

    Cam
     

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