Question In-Wall Surround Speakers in thermalite block wall

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Building DIY' started by infinitydreams, Nov 16, 2017.


    1. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      I'm going to flip my living room around which will enable me to have a projector and the missus can get the corner sofa she wants. It also means speaker cable is easier but the downside is speaker placement for surrounds.

      She hates speakers so I really need to avoid speakers on the wall, on stands etc, even small satellites need to be avoided.

      So I was wondering if I could install some in-wall speakers, see placement below.

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      The issue is that wall is an external wall, so behind the plasterboard is only about a 1" gap before the internal thermalite-block. Most the in-wall speakers I've seen need 3" minimum.

      So my questions are:

      1) Are there any super narrow speakers that would work?
      2) I guess they'd have to be directional so I can angle to sitting position?
      3) Can I cut some of the thermalite block away to cater for the in-wall speakers?
      4) Any other ideas?

      Thanks
      James
       
    2. Peter Parker

      Peter Parker
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Apr 6, 2001
      Messages:
      13,403
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      UK.
      Ratings:
      +2,903
      Well, if you want something small and not very deep, you could try some small full range speakers (Visaton etc), or even some 5.25" (or smaller) coaxial car speakers - some are less than 2" deep. Not sure how you would hide them unless you paint the grills the same colour as the wall perhaps.

      They won't have the best bass response - maybe 100 to 150hz, but will (hopefully) be better than nothing. If they cross to a sub at that frequency without localising the sub you may be fine.

      This was one of the first I came across using Google:

      5" Full Range Speaker Driver, 4 Ohm, 30W RMS - VISATON | CPC

      http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1256261.pdf

      I've no idea how good or bad they sound, but I've used some 6.5" car speakers that were 44mm deep and I'm more than happy with them. You may not be of course but sometimes compromises have to be made.
       
    3. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      I really want a proper solution and ideally not round profile but small(ish) and rectangular. My brother in law has a Bose system (shudder) it's an old system but the in wall speakers look neat as they are small/rectangular. Think they are these - BOSE AdaptIQ In-Wall II speakers from Lifestyle systems
       
    4. Peter Parker

      Peter Parker
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Apr 6, 2001
      Messages:
      13,403
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      UK.
      Ratings:
      +2,903
      Full range BMR speakers come in a square format so might be worth a look.
       
    5. GeneticMutation

      GeneticMutation
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Sep 7, 2011
      Messages:
      559
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Ratings:
      +184
      How about chopping out as much as you can from the wall and then build a frame to go around the speak that is sticking out. Does that make sense?

      You would not have to compromise on the speakers and it seems the most logical solution. I'm sure someone on the forum did something similar when installing in wall speakers so it may be worth having a look through the DIY threads.
       
    6. avanzato

      avanzato
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 21, 2003
      Messages:
      1,963
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      51
      Location:
      Norfolk
      Ratings:
      +82
      Amina Technologies make 'invisible' flat panel speakers that do what you want but they aren't that small or cheap.
       
    7. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2
      Hey Bud,

      You could always dig the Thermolite out a little bit? Thats what i did to get my speakers further into the wall. They are Monitor Audio Radius so around 3 to 4 Inches deep. I finished around them with tile trim.
       

      Attached Files:

      Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
    8. Navvie

      Navvie
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Apr 17, 2007
      Messages:
      927
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      Fareham
      Ratings:
      +326
      Bought my MA CP speakers through www.ceiling-speakers.co.uk they've a fairly comprehensive listing of in and an wall speakers.

      Some on wall speakers can be photo frames, they're hidden while in plain sight. Might be an option.
       
    9. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      Interesting. I found a few speakers that need say 50mm depth, so I might need to chisel out 20mm. I just wasn’t sure if that was a complete no no on an external wall?

      Also I was concerned the sound would travel through gap all up the side of the house and even to neighbours, any thoughts?
       
    10. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2
      I made a plywood box that the speakers fit inside and then cut the whole to fit the box. I fixed the box into the wall and put Rockwool between the Thermolite and the plasterboard. That way you can remove the speakers if you need to. I'll take a couple more pictures....
       
    11. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      Just spotted these, and they only need 36mm depth. More than I wanted to pay by a long shot but if it means I get surround speakers it will be worth it.

      Ci160TS

      Anyone know of these will work directly behind seating position? I know surrounds should really be to the left/right but it’s impossible in my space.

      Aim is to have a 5.1.2 system
       
    12. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2
      Chiseling a bit of the Thermolite won't matter at all. It won't bother it's structural integrity.

      Here's a couple more pictures, hopefully they'll make what I'm trying to convey a little clearer....
       
    13. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2
    14. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      Wowzers, you must have taken out most the block!

      Nice job though...

      I just need to work out how much of the wall I’m prepared to take out which will dictate the speaker. Also not sure how far apart I should put them, I do t want to be annoyed by a speaker 30cm from my ear, equally don’t want them so far apart it’s pointless.

      Front are Q Acoustics Concepts, sub not yet chosen (but will be smallish), Atmos ceilings not selected either.

      All this faffing makes me want a dedicated room or to be single! Ha ha
       
    15. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2

      It looks and sounds good, that's all I care about!

      As far as a sub goes, I have a BK XLS200. Small, relatively cheap and kicks like a mule!
       
    16. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      Looks very cool, I’m slowly planning on getting there. Projector and electric screen next year.

      I just need a few speaker nerds to weigh in about the surround speakers and best type/position with my setup.

      I’ve then got to flip a current unit around, install my eBay find Q Acoustics Concept centre to match my L/R, then add these surrounds and sub, then Atmos, then projector. Really tempted by that new native 4K SONY, otherwise will be a Epson 7300. I like the look of the short throw but the 4K ones are mental money.
       
    17. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2
      4K prices are crazy. Like everything else they'll drop over time. I got my projector (Optoma HD23) a couple of years ago from Richer Sounds eBay shop. It was a unit they'd had returned, hardly used and was half price! It's worth keeping an eye on their store.

      I can't help on speaker placement, I just go with where they look good to keep the wife sweet!
       
    18. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      What screen do you have?
       
    19. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2
      I had an electric, ceiling mounted, screen in my flat. When we moved I wanted a fixed screen so followed this -

      How to build a $30 Projector Screen


      The last one was glass beaded (again from eBay) and cost £250. The one I made is better and a lot cheaper!
       
    20. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      This is one of the potential layouts I'm thinking, what do people think?

      [​IMG]
       
    21. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      As I’m looking at slim in walls for the surrounds , I was looking at the Kef Ci160TS but at £270 each, I’m now looking slightly deeper but cheaper other models.

      Does anyone have any thoughts on the following speakers?

      Ci100QS - £120 each
      KEF Ci130.2CS - £150 each
      Q Acoustics QI65S - £200 pair

      My front speakers are Q Acoustic Concepts so guessing matching would be best? However I do like the small size of the Ci100QS.

      Is there anything I really need to be careful of with matching speakers?
       
    22. aVdub

      aVdub
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 27, 2010
      Messages:
      7,759
      Products Owned:
      7
      Products Wanted:
      5
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Location:
      Ground Control
      Ratings:
      +8,287

      Is there any reason why the screen cannot go on the 3300 wall and sofa other end?
       
    23. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      We did consider that but a 5m viewing distance simply felt to far away, especially when in the day time we’d be using a 52” TV.
       
    24. aVdub

      aVdub
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 27, 2010
      Messages:
      7,759
      Products Owned:
      7
      Products Wanted:
      5
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Location:
      Ground Control
      Ratings:
      +8,287

      Time for a 70inch TV then :p
       
    25. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      No it doesn’t work properly so we are def putting TV/Screen mentioned above
       
    26. ChuckMountain

      ChuckMountain
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Oct 5, 2003
      Messages:
      6,021
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Ratings:
      +1,164
      Those speakers are all ceiling ones, don't they need a certain volume of space behind to work properly or a hood which adds more depth.

      I wouldn't want to chisel much out of an external load carrying wall...

      I know you mentioned not on the wall but could you not get away with Kef T103 in white they would be 35mm in depth?

      I would have said go with Monitor Audio Shadows but they have been discontinued.

      Not sure either is in your price range though....
       
    27. infinitydreams

      infinitydreams
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2009
      Messages:
      216
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +11
      I think I’ve pretty much ruled out in wall now, I should have carried on with this thread (please archive this one) and I’ve opened a new thread purely about what speakers to buy, see here: Do I battle for in-wall or try ceiling?
      Question - Do I battle for in-wall or try ceiling?
       
    28. Tigerlaser

      Tigerlaser
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Sep 28, 2007
      Messages:
      340
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Ratings:
      +42
      One or her consideration is bookshelf speakers on stand, either side at right angles to listening position. Couch would be out from the wall a bit you could maybe make use of the space with shelves or something.

      Dealt hybrid tweeters have wide dispersion so could be slightly off right angle without a problem.
       
    29. bmkev

      bmkev
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Oct 28, 2007
      Messages:
      362
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Glasgow
      Ratings:
      +71
      ooo, me likes that, just given me an idea :thumbsup:
       
    30. Kellydavid1978

      Kellydavid1978
      Novice Member

      Joined:
      Aug 23, 2017
      Messages:
      8
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      1
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +2
      I've been given loads of ideas from this forum mate, it's good to give one back!
      I'd like to see pictures of whatever it is you do....
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice