In search of a warm, relaxed sound

The upgrade is complete and the clarity is an upgrade over the standard menuets. Pianos have more Nuance's than before. Vocals are a bit odd, Ben Howard' old pine sounds like he's singing into a tin box. It seems like a filter has been removed but is it better?
Checking the equaliser settings the bass was up, turning it down has helped, but vocals are too clear, if that's possible. I'll put some hours on them tonight and see how it goes.

Do crossovers have burn in times?
 
The upgrade is complete and the clarity is an upgrade over the standard menuets. Pianos have more Nuance's than before. Vocals are a bit odd, Ben Howard' old pine sounds like he's singing into a tin box. It seems like a filter has been removed but is it better?
Checking the equaliser settings the bass was up, turning it down has helped, but vocals are too clear, if that's possible. I'll put some hours on them tonight and see how it goes.

Do crossovers have burn in times?
DIY applies more for DIY sell speakers. Should think Dali knows what they are doing.
 
Chris Huelsbeck' Turrican 2 Orchestral album is incredible. I love this album but this is the best I've heard it. As with any change in HiFi components some of the music you previously loved will sound different, maybe not better maybe not worse, different. I'm pleased with it so far.
 
I am glad you like the sound, it’s just that you voided the warranty now. In my opinion you should not tweak fabric designed speakers.
 
I am glad you like the sound, it’s just that you voided the warranty now. In my opinion you should not tweak fabric designed speakers.
Is it genuine Dali crossover bought from a Dali approved dealer so its just a direct swap, just take the standard one out and put the new 'se' crossover in?
 
Yeah its from dali, I emailed them asking if I could purchase a mundorf capacitor and anything else I'd need to upgrade my memuets to the se version. The wood vaneer of the se wouldnt suit the office. They gave me the part number I needed to take to RS. It was £60 for both, I didn't receive a mundorf cap I received the entire crossover with terminals all on 1 board. I had to remove the woofers to get to the spade plugs. The SE are about £300 over the standard menuet. So I've saved £240.
 
Perhaps I spoke to fast. I’ve done the same with B&W speakers. Not caps but tweeters.
 
Edit, crossovers. Which crossover are used in the standard Menuet?
 
Did you need to do any soldering to fit the se cross over? or was it just a simple job just a screwdriver needed?
 
But forward sounding tweeters can possibly become tiresome of long listening periods. ( That is what I have found many moons passed when demoing certain speakers)
Has the digital age changed the way new speaker designers have created their house sounds?
Can we really class AV as real audio though, with all its speakers and sound processing?
This issue of bright edgy sounding speakers in the last few years really annoys me, I mean it's not as though their designers are lacking the right tools and software to get a nice flat balance, yeah sure I do understand they might have to be compatible with surround sound duties as well but mostly I think it's just laziness or an eagerness to just get as many products out there as quick as possible and sell them without refining them properly.
I think they also tend to use lower quality drivers (made in house) these days to maximise their profit margins which usually means they need to design better crossovers to counter the poor driver performance, and that cost extra money so they just don't bother.
The problem I hear all the time with so many budget speakers is they tend to have a nasty peak in the 2-4Khz range (lower treble/high midrange) This is easy to dial out with a bit of equalization but the end user should not have to do this. I even heard this problem in Dali Rubycon 2's, something I wouldn't expect in a small speaker costing £1600, and yet another pair of speakers I tried that were sent packing.

I can always tell in the first few seconds of music if a loudspeaker has this trait, if you can HEAR the tweeter shouting at you then the crossover has not been designed properly, in a 2, 3 or 4 way speaker you should not be able to hear where the lower frequency and midrange joins with the tweeter, it should sound like a single driver producing ALL of the frequency range and you should not be able to hear any one frequency over another, this is how a good design differs from a poor design. Any peaks and troughs should be dialled out with the crossover so all the drivers blend seamlessly and that should also translate to the listener after final production.
There is really NO EXCUSE to design poor sounding loudspeakers in this day and age with the amount of technology available to them, even if they are lower end models.
...Gripe over.
 
An issue for speaker designers is that everyone has different hearing. Do some people hear certain frequencies louder or less.
 
This issue of bright edgy sounding speakers in the last few years really annoys me, I mean it's not as though their designers are lacking the right tools and software to get a nice flat balance, yeah sure I do understand they might have to be compatible with surround sound duties as well but mostly I think it's just laziness or an eagerness to just get as many products out there as quick as possible and sell them without refining them properly.
I think they also tend to use lower quality drivers (made in house) these days to maximise their profit margins which usually means they need to design better crossovers to counter the poor driver performance, and that cost extra money so they just don't bother.
The problem I hear all the time with so many budget speakers is they tend to have a nasty peak in the 2-4Khz range (lower treble/high midrange) This is easy to dial out with a bit of equalization but the end user should not have to do this. I even heard this problem in Dali Rubycon 2's, something I wouldn't expect in a small speaker costing £1600, and yet another pair of speakers I tried that were sent packing.

I can always tell in the first few seconds of music if a loudspeaker has this trait, if you can HEAR the tweeter shouting at you then the crossover has not been designed properly, in a 2, 3 or 4 way speaker you should not be able to hear where the lower frequency and midrange joins with the tweeter, it should sound like a single driver producing ALL of the frequency range and you should not be able to hear any one frequency over another, this is how a good design differs from a poor design. Any peaks and troughs should be dialled out with the crossover so all the drivers blend seamlessly and that should also translate to the listener after final production.
There is really NO EXCUSE to design poor sounding loudspeakers in this day and age with the amount of technology available to them, even if they are lower end models.
...Gripe over.

I think the majority of the speakers that have been designed over the last 10 years or so on more forward sounding, because maybe the modern ear is slightly tuned different or maybe its become fashionable to have forward sounding speakers? But I do think there is a definite change in sound.
Is it all because of bad engineered speakers?
I doubt it, one or two maybe, but there are alot of forward sounding speakers currently on the market.
 
I think the majority of the speakers that have been designed over the last 10 years or so on more forward sounding, because maybe the modern ear is slightly tuned different or maybe its become fashionable to have forward sounding speakers? But I do think there is a definite change in sound.
Is it all because of bad engineered speakers?
I doubt it, one or two maybe, but there are alot of forward sounding speakers currently on the market.
I disagree, the average human hearing hasn't changed in the last 20 years or so, you only have to search through the amount threads on here to see that this issue IS a problem, so many folks posting "why do my new speakers sound so bright", "looking for a smoother sound" " why am I getting listener fatigue with my new speakers?" "Not happy with my new speakers" and on and on it goes.
Do the designers conducting listening tests in a speakers production have cloth ears? Are their ears clogged with wax? or are they just making them sound that way to try and stand out in the demo room compared to a more flat natural sounding speaker. Might be great for a few minutes in the demo room with some super high quality recording but completely useless when you get them home and start going through your music collection, but by then it's usually too late and you have to start badgering the dealer to exchange them for something else.
This peak in the upper response might be OK for watching movies through a surround sound system but it certainly isn't for listening to 2 channel stereo which seems to be gathering momentum again.
 
Do speaker designers tune their speakers to match the market's listening material/genres of music and room sizes?

eg the monitor audio bronze 6 were originally designed for the American markets as the average living room is larger and they favour bigger bass...

are we seeing speakers that are bright where they are mainly dual purpose (av and stereo music)? where they have a centre channel in the range)

less chance of music only speakers being bright?
 
Not too sure you can call B&W, Dali, Focal and Klipsch (just to name a few) all badly designed speakers.
 
I have the impression speakers today are trying to catch up with the modern times.

Everything needs to precise like clockwork.
 
One main factor is this: Most speaker manufacturers caters the sound by audiophile music/masterings.

Hence, bright sound.

Let’s face it, do you listen to boring audiophile music? I sure don’t.

Audiophile music for me is Pink Floyd, Dire Straits. Janis Joplin, Pearl album. Neil Young, Leonard Cohen.

Of course other albums too.

Do audio shops put on this recordings for the customer? No. It’s Cris Jones, No Sanctuary. The latter is boring...

But sometimes Leonard Cohen lasted albums. Which are musical, audiophile treasures.

In the end you need to put on bad recordings too, to evaluate the speakers.
 
Not too sure you can call B&W, Dali, Focal and Klipsch (just to name a few) all badly designed speakers.
Focal no, the rest ..room for improvement.
 
Not sure whether the OP is still looking for recommendations but I would suggest listening to some of the Quad S-Series range (probably S-1 or S-2 bookshelf models depending on budget/deals).

These have a nice natural, relaxed and unfatiguing sound, helped by the ribbon tweeters.
 
Can we really class AV as real audio though, with all its speakers and sound processing?

AV sound can be just the same as hifi sound and if anything, a typical AVR setup tries to get closer to conveying the original sound to the listener (via room correction DSP, active bass management etc) than a typical stereo hifi. Also there is the option of dolby atmos music which is done well could be the in home live experience some people look for.

I don't think you can dismiss it is not being 'real audio'. The issue many of us have with AVRs is about their lack of ability to convey the same level of detail or handle speakers as well as a decent stereo integrated amp and personally I find the room DSP on many to just not be very good for music. Perhaps for those with Lyngdorf AV processors and a rack of amps things are much better via stereo music via an AV system ;)
 
If you haven't got the detail at the beginning of the chain, then you cannot get it back from any other part your system regardless of what speakers speakers or amplifier you own.
There was a saying years ago.....shite in, you get shite out.
 
I need a bit of advice. I am looking for a pair of budget bookshelf speakers (up to 500€, preferebly around 300€). I am going to run them with Cambridge Audio AXA35 in a small room. I want a relaxed, realistic sound with no listening fatigue. Mostly I listen to jazz, rock, ambiental and classical music.

-. -. -. -. -.-

Around half a year back, I picked up Q Acoustics 3020i. I liked them, but they were a bit lacking in bass (just enough to make me wonder). I changed them for KEF Q350, but after some time with them, I started missing natural, acoustic sound of 3020i. So I sold KEF Q350. Than I thought that I would find a compromise of natural, sweet sound and bass in Wharfedale Diamond 12.2. Not so, for my ears they were fatiguing; very forward, not relaxing. This surprised me, since most reviewers described them as easy going (I must be sensitive and small room with reflections also contributed to fatiguing sound). Now, I changed my Wharfedale 12.2 for a much cheaper Wharfedale D320 with the idea of having relaxed sound with bass. Well, in my room, D320 are really bloated in bass if listening of axis, e.g. in corners or near a wall (much, much more bloated than any of the above mentioned speakers; ps, all the speakers where properly driven in). This brings me to this day...

I try to remember myself that the perfect speakers at this price does not exist, but since I can still return D320 to Amazon, I thought to ask you for an advice.

-. -. -. -. -. -

So far I have these ideas:
1) Go back to Q Acoustics 3020i (300€) and have a bit less bass,but natural sound.
2) Buy Q Acoustics 3030i (400€), but here I am afraid that the bass would be bloated, since they are punchy.
3) Mission LX-2 MK II (300€) looks like a good deal, but are they fatiguing? I heard them with my amp briefly and they were lively and realistic. They made an impression on me, but didn't get a chance to listen to them for more than 20min at low to medium volumes.
4) Keep D320 and stop the search, since there will always be something not best to my taste.
For other brands that I researched, Dali's might be too bright, same goes for Triangle Borea and B&W. Elac's might be similar to KEF in neutrality and spatiousness, but might lack a bit of warmth and naturalism plus they are described as picky with amps a bit (never heard any of the here mentioned brands, except KEF).

Any idea or experience with mentioned amp and/or speakers (maybe even in a small room) is much welcome. Thank you.
Hello!
It's been a year since you post, but I've just read it (accidentally, as I was searching some info for q acoustics). Well, I don't know what you did at the end (glad to know), but I understand your worries, and my opinion would be that:
1. The Amp has to do with that case (it's a matter of "matching, I believe, and have in mind, that not always" better "of one element match good with another" better "of another element, in the case, Amp & speakers).
2. As I understand, from the all the first speakers you had you better liked the 3020i,and I find it very normal.. So I would recommend, either the bigger 3030i, which is almost the double the cabinet, and of course much more bass as you're looking for, either, the more sofisticaded concept 20,which is sure less in bass but very careful designed and built. (and nice in small spaces)
3. Alternative, from all mentioned models, I would recommend the Mission LX-3 MK2
4. Generally, I agree with the opinions of all, and the final step, which is maybe not applicable here, is upgrading /every category has its own limits!

Beye and have good results in the searching of best sound!

John
 
I just sold my mission LX-3 MK 2 , they don't have a warm sound and lack some bass if powered by a small amp
 
I just sold my mission LX-3 MK 2 , they don't have a warm sound and lack some bass if powered by a small amp
OH, sorry for hearing that... Although, with some other amps I've known, they sounded pretty good for their price/category. Ok
 
They sound neutral, not to much highs, a little extra power for the bass and if op like to play loud

I played them for a few hours before they came and bought the speakers, by any means not bass heavy and to get most out of them something above 50 watt i 8 ohm or 100 watt in 4 ohm, something a little more powerfull than a cambridge audio a25 and nad c316bee, mostly for the bass, since a more powerfull amp seems to have a positive effect
 

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