In search of a better processor than classe

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by cableman, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. cableman

    cableman
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    IN SEARCH OF A BETTER PROCESSOR THAN CLASSE

    I had had the excellent Classe SSP300 preamp processor for a few years and although a superb bit of gear it lacks HDMI and HD sound processing. ( I used 'passthrough' and a denon bd3800 which has the required onboard sound processing. ) When I bought it Classe ASSURED me it would be upgradable to HDMI ( aye right!). In them early days who knew what....

    Anyway, it was time for a change. David Schultz, he of The Upgrade Company (TUC), came up in a discussion on avforums. One of Mr Shultzs cheerleaders chimed in with something positive only to be quickly contradicted by another poster who had had an awful experience with TUC. This new poster mentioned 'Cinemike' of MS Technik - a modding company based in Germany.

    Does modding work? I'm INCREDIBLY suspicious. You send your gear over to some unknown guy in another country, pay them a fair wack, and trust that they carry out the mod to the level they claim will upgrade your gear, and that it will be improved to the level far beyond its original abilities.Tough!

    I was intrigued. The poster on here had had an amp, bd player and was getting a processor modded by cinemike. He assured me he could see and hear the difference. Hear the difference I said? But it's over HDMI??? Are you serious? He was!

    I was doubly intrigued. I googled and found contact details for MS Technik I called them and spoke to an associate of Cinemike incidentally also called Michael. I hope he wasn't takin it....( geddit?)

    We chatted for ages. He has excellent English. Theyve also been working on improving the Sony 1000ES projector( which I own) an Oppo, and a high end Bryston processor.( apparently with Brystons full knowledge and blessing). His recommendation? Track down a Denon AVP and he'll improve it with their around 500 modifications on a standard AVP- starting with the fuse holder! Seriously!

    As luck would have it one was available from a poster on here. I bought it. No sound. It went back! Then I tracked one down to Unilet, paid for it and got it delivered. This one worked fine thank goodness. It's INCREDIBLY complicated to set up, soooooo many options. Eventually I got it set up as best I could. The guys at Unilet were very helpful in this endeavour. How did it sound? What about the picture? Bloody average. Not particularly impressed. Sound OR picture.

    I called Michael at MS Technik. What's the deal Michael? Apparently ONLY after their mod will it look and sound special. And that's where we are at right now. I'm sending my AVP and my new Denon 3313 Bd, which he also recommended, over to Cinemike soon for modding. It's not cheap. Will it work? Ill keep you posted.
     
  2. onlyvik

    onlyvik
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    Hi Cableman .... join the club :thumbsup:

    [​IMG]


    As you can see for me also some changes. I have sold the AV 7005 and the Sherwood to one of my best friends and he couldn't be happier.

    And in return i bought a stock AVP-A1HDA with the 3D update. Right after picking up i took it to CineMike for the complete tuning.

    Another dutch forum member also bought an AVP and going the CineMike route.

    Well about CineMike i have written a couple of times on different topics so not really worth it to post it again i guess ;)

    We compared my CineMike AV 7005 HDMI to an older Classé SSP 75 (dts core with coax) and even when the AV 7005 was the clear winner. I was amazed about the Classé SSP 75. Sounded really nice.

    Very nice build if you compare it to the newer Classé processors. If you compare the SSP 800 there is hardly a part inside compared to the SSP-75.

    The upgraded AVP will be a good choice , together with a good source and amp.

    There is no better processor than the upgraded AVP. Believe me.. i have heard all the big expensive guys and even the most talked about pre-pro at the moment:

    The Bryston SP3.

    I liked it once upgraded. Compared to the upgraded AVP.. a matter of taste but we all liked the AVP better. There was something in the higher frequencies that i did not like, the avp was also a little more detailed.

    Good luck with your project and trust me you will not be dissappointed :smashin:

    Here a google translation from German to English about the Cinemike AVP:

    Google Vertalen
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  3. onlyvik

    onlyvik
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  4. cableman

    cableman
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    You have made an astonishing assertion onlyvik which to some on here would be impossible

    Youre claiming that a denon outperforms the amazing Bryston SP3. Are you serious?

    Wow!

    Maybe I should have named my post DENON BETTER THAN BRYSTON. that would have got tongues wagging!

    NOW I'm excited to hear and see for myself lol
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  5. onlyvik

    onlyvik
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    Yes Cableman that´s true.

    The upgraded AVP is far better than the Bryston SP3.


    It took some time to get the SP3 on the same level as the upgraded AVP, when i did hear it the last time it still was not a final version of the Bryston tuning. The HDMI part took some time to improve too.

    Mike is looking for an alternative for the AVP to offer to his customers, as the AVP is not available anymore. He has a couple of customers that are interested in the Bryston upgrades.

    But again important to keep in mind that all this is about upgrading, and not a thing between bad and good machines.

    In the standard world there is nothing better at the moment than the Bryston SP3.

    A dutch member mentioned Meridian but i have my doubts.




    My next mission will be a new amplifier. I have sold my Anthem A5 and Classé CAV-180.

    After having the Sherwood Newcastle coming from Mike, and i did experience it before when connected to my AV 7005, the Anthem Statement A5 was the bottle neck.

    It was dynamic but this is where everything ends. It did not have the airy high frequencies, midrange and the seperation that the Sherwood has. Bass was very tight and clean and was different with the Anthem. I did not like the bass at all.



    The Classé CAV-180:

    It had the nice midrange of the Sherwood, soundstage was good , but it lacked the seperation compared to the Sherwood, and also here (even worse than the Anthem) i hated the bass. It was everything but controlled.

    And according to some Classé experts/lovers in Holland the older Classé amps are still the best, the CAV-500 (reference) and the CAV-180.

    I took the Anthem and Classé both to Mike and there it was the same.


    Then there came the surprise:

    Mike took a standard Marantz MM 8077 amplifier (not upgraded) and i was really surprised about the sound. Very nice for a standard amp.

    It does not have the power of the Anthem but this is a really nice amp.

    Mike has an upgrade for the MM 8077 and guess what? :D

    This will be my new amplifier. Mike will bridge two channels so i will have more power for the main speakers. I will have 5 channels instead of 7 but i will be happy.

    I am limited in space so i will only have space for one multi channel amp.

    Upgrading the Classé was not an option. I cannot give the Classe the airflow it needs in my cabinet. Also i don't want class A.

    Waiting for an upgrade for the Anthem was not an option. They don't have much time to develop.

    I have sold the Classé and Anthem and next week the Marantz will be ready.

    If i would have space my choice would be an upgraded Emotiva Xpa-2 and 3. The XPA-2 is a true beauty once upgraded, and was not far behind the reference Advance Acoustic MAA 1000.


    Keep in mind that to get the full benefith of the Cinemike AVP , you will need the source and amps tuned by Mike.





     
  6. cableman

    cableman
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    Well onlyvik. It seems you ARE prepared to put your head on the chopping block. Even mentioning the AVP in the same sentence as a Bryston Is considered heresy by some on here :D

    Bold claims my friend bold claims!
     
  7. onlyvik

    onlyvik
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    Like i said before:

    Jump on the plane and experience it your self. ;)

    In the last two years i have had so many auditions with all the big brands compared.

    Because it's Bryston and has a high price tag doesn´t mean that there isn´t room for improvement by other people.

    The best gear is coming from Germany, look at brands like Audionet or Burmester.

    Mike is not using more expensive parts, but better parts compared to the parts most manufactures use in their gear. The quality is poor most of the time. And off course the man in charge Michael the tuning expert.

    This guy is unique with his work.

    Enough said who am i? ;)



     
  8. cableman

    cableman
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    Oops we disagree. Burmeister is overpriced garbage:D

    Onlyvik why don't u open a thread and entitle it denon better than Bryston sp3 and tell of your experiences. Bet you'd get a lot of aggravated Bryston owners telling you how wrong you are :)
     
  9. cableman

    cableman
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    You sent me a PM Kobbe. Why? Post your comments on the forum please. We all should hear your contradiction of onlyvic and give him an opportunity to respond. It's called democracy
     
  10. kobbe

    kobbe
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    They offer zero evidence, period. Testimonials are just that. I got a unit modded upgraded and could not tell any difference but each to their own.
     
  11. cableman

    cableman
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    Fair comment. I dont have an oppo to upgrade. Anyone who has one modded by cinemike care to wade in?

    What " evidence" were you expecting from them Kobbe?
     
  12. kobbe

    kobbe
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    You will find that these mod upgrade companies most of the time will not disclose the modifications they perform to the hardware, if any.
     
  13. cableman

    cableman
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    Not true in the case of MS Techik. I've discussed the mods to my AVP They claim 500 part changes - we've only discussed about 50 so far!
     
  14. kobbe

    kobbe
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    Well the proof will be in the pudding, keep me posted.:laugh:
     
  15. cableman

    cableman
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    Yes it will. Your sarcasm is noted Kobbe. If onlyvic is right you'll be laughing ion the other side of your face. However if you're right I'll be a very unhappy boy lol

    Sorry you couldn't see or hear the difference to your oppo
     
  16. onlyvik

    onlyvik
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    No thanks Cableman. ;)

    Why should i try to convince other people if they like what they are having.

    It doesn't lead to anything, and i don't like getting into some sort of anti-Cinemike battle.

    If people don't believe what i am writing, that is fine with me. I would probably do the same, i don't blame them.




     
  17. onlyvik

    onlyvik
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    What a shame kobbe.

    Tell me your experience, why did you buy there? What set up are you using, how did you get to know Cinemike?






     
  18. onlyvik

    onlyvik
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    Sorry but we are not talking about The Upgrade Company here. They don't make a secret of what they are doing.



     
  19. cableman

    cableman
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    Actually I second that. Can you advise when you got your oppo upgraded by the guys in germany Kobbe. How much it costs and what differences if any you noticed. Thx
     
  20. cableman

    cableman
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    Hi Kobbe. Sorry to be a pest but it would be really helpful if you could supply this info.
     
  21. cableman

    cableman
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    For some reason Kobbe has PMd me rather than post on here. I'm curious as to why but hey ho.

    He says he got an 83 modded years ago and although I'm 99% sure he has never heard a cinemike modded Denon AVP he challenged me with this:Oppo 83 , let me know when your modification is is complete, wow amazing denon AVP will be better then bryston sp3, I think you should post on bryston processor thread to get bryston owners views for a balanced comments. Cheers

    I've told him, no probs, if I think it does. I surely will!

    Does anyone else think his comments are a bit off?
     
  22. cableman

    cableman
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    From Kobbe: Lol you don't mince your words, on a serious note I am not interested in mods upgrades anymore because IMO it's a waste of money for me. If onk says his AVP is better then the sp3 then whoops for him but I don't buy it, if that was the case everyone world wide would be sending their own units worldwide to get modded, any reference to cine mike on avs ? What's next I can get my sony hw10 modded to be better then the sony vw1000' , lol. How do you know the guy ain't taking your good parts out of the unit to keep and replacing with third party parts, you are just taking his word for it. I have seen cine mikes test bench and room, say n more.. Cheers[/QUOTE]

    My response: Kobbe you talk as someone who has had a bitter experience but just because YOU dont buy it doesnt make it wrong. I keep an open mind on these things. You on the other hand have already decided it cant and wont improve the equipment Has it occurred to you that some experts HAVE found away to mod certain gear to make them easily surpass their standard versions and indeed surpass far more lauded-on forums anyway-brands

    Why not?

    or are you in the 'all cables sound the same, all HDMI sounds the same' camp?

    are you a Luddite Kobbe?

    have you heard the Cinemike Denon AVP modded unit If not please explain how you can be SO sure it wont outperform the Bryston

    Ill post this on the forum so others can get involved
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  23. kobbe

    kobbe
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    Cableman, you are clearly trying the stir up approach by posting my pm reply sent to you, whatever your trying to achieve I don't know. I expressed my own opinion from experience but you take it to another level, each to their own.
     
  24. cableman

    cableman
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    not true

    What is your agenda here Kobbe?

    I asked you to post your comments on the forum, not to keep PMming me, but still you persist with your Pms

    Kobbe Im going to stick my neck out here and ask you to prove you have ever had your Oppo83 modded by Cinemike

    if you cant prove it then others on the forum can draw their own conclusions as to who you are and what your agenda is.

    Respectfully CM
     
  25. kobbe

    kobbe
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    End discussion...:)
     
  26. kobbe

    kobbe
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    Cableman you talk a lot of b..., and you clearly have a screw loose some where. Don't contact me again..

    You sent me a pm asking me to respond..


    cableman
    Member

    Join Date: Oct 2002
    Re: Hi
    Quote:
    I've asked a question of you on the forum Kobbe re dates and cost. Can u respond when u have a mo thx
     
  27. cableman

    cableman
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    Er, Kobbe. I think u have things backwards. YOU SENT ME A PM. I asked you to keep correspondence on the forum. Me thinks you've been caught out trolling

    Again, you didn't really get the guys in germany to mod your oppo83 did you Kobbe?

    Time for the mods to chip in eh?
     
  28. cableman

    cableman
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    Lets take this to the mods shall we Kobbe
     
  29. kobbe

    kobbe
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    Here you go talking more dribble again, I see that you are regular on the classifieds always trying to haggle to get something for nothing and your other tatic of returning goods purchased claiming faulty - your just a hazard, end your dribble talk.. thanks.:)
     
  30. cableman

    cableman
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    Oh dear oh dear oh dear. How sad

    So I'm guessing you're using a new moniker. Wonder what your other one(s) is

    Pathetic
     

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