In Ceiling DIY Atmos Speakers

Discussion in 'DIY Speaker & Subwoofer Building' started by markymiles, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Finally decided to see what all this atmos stuff is about and getting an Arcam AVR550 on Monday.

    In keeping with the all DIY speaker approach I'm now turning my attention to what I might be able to make and somehow fit in the ceiling. My first thought obviously went towards the Diysg stuff and came across this as an idea.

    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-d...-subwoofers/2452074-volt-6-ceiling-atmos.html

    This is a possibility although still not sure exactly how I would do it and make it discreet.

    Open to any ideas people might have.............
     
  2. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    Link doesn't work for me

    You don't want to keep it in the family?

    Overview

    All the usual European companies do coaxes
     
  3. markymiles

    markymiles
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    That's weird, works fine for me.

    Maybe, looks nice. Is there such a thing as a sealed back version of coaxes, suitable for IB like their is on some mids?

    Probably a bit rich for my blood at the moment.
     
  4. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Still looking round, there are obviously commercial ones, something like these for £190 and run them bipole/dipole to suit:

    C265-FX | In-Ceiling Speakers | Monitor Audio

    So thats my comparison. The DIY need to be either better or cheaper to be worthwhile.
     
  5. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    I don't know how you will find out whether it is better or not unless you simply assume that any half decent diy effort will be better than any commercial speaker that is anywhere near the same price (which seems a fair assumption)

    avs link fails on their mobile site (which is absolute garbage so probably not a surprise it fails)

    you won't be running them full range (i.e. you will have a high pass filter) so designed for IB or not seems not that important, just model in a giant box and add the HPF

    6HX150 by FaitalPRO is another option, curves look pretty good to me. You can see their actual measured response in Coaxial Speaker Build Thread with FaitalPro 6HX150 - diyAudio (which could also provide a starting point for a crossover).

    £125 at bluearan, seems a good option to me.

    how many channels are you going for?
     
  6. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    the specs on that monitoraudio are somewhat risible btw, for example they quote max SPL in as 108dBA

    this is what a weighting looks like

    [​IMG]

    -20dB at 100Hz so they're basically saying "our tweeters can do 108dB", useful

    mind you this shouldn't be surprising if you look at rated power (85W) and sensitivity (88.5dB [email protected])

    using a speaker like that as the commercial comparison point doesn't seem to be setting a very high bar :D
     
  7. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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  8. linnasak

    linnasak
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    I have advantage of bungalow, so putting some of these in loft.
    meridian-audio[.info] | Meridian Boothroyd Stuart

    Suspended from beam. Firing down into lounge. Going to remove the plasterboard in front of drivers, just leaving paper as a grill / patch up and ask for forgiveness,if I screw up!

    Idea is to get the drivers flush with ceiling but advantage of full range. Noted when I trialed from high wall quite a lot coming from height speakers so worth effort I think. Also matches timbre of my mains and surrounds.

    If I succeed wife does not know speakers exist!

    Kevin
     
  9. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Once you pointed at the BMS I naturally looked to see what Faitalpro had and thought that 6HX150 looked pretty good. As usual couldn't just be a nice simple round shape!!

    Crossover looks reasonably good too. Assuming the linked build worked out well. No reason to think they didn't.

    I'm just stencilling a few circles on my nice freshly plastered and painted ceiling to give myself an idea. :facepalm:

    I'll be going for 4. I really don't think 6 are ever in my future, my lounge simply isn't that big. It wouldn't be that hard to add another two.

    I'm assuming 45 degrees maximum from the center of the speaker to actually reach me given coax have 90 degree dispersion. So ideally a bit less than that otherwise the top fronts will be a bit pointless. I think given how so many people don't have an exact dolby guideline placement I'll just go with what I think is best. The Top Rears for instance can't go behind me but can go fairly near to being overhead.
     
  10. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Seems strange they don't just offer an optional cheap crossover with these coax's.
     
  11. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    The stock xo are usually rubbish anyway
     
  12. markymiles

    markymiles
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    And the mark miles brain starts to go into the indecision making process once more. :confused:

    As I have 4 volt 8's just sat there, I don't want to end up with potentially better atmos speakers to surrounds. What if I used those for in ceiling and then built another 4 8" coax for surrounds. Maybe the 8HX200's?

    At least the Volts are round :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  13. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    I haven't looked into this in much detail tbh but don't height speakers get fairly lightly used by atmos? in which case don't you want the more capable woofers as surrounds?

    also have you considered noise transmission through the ceiling?
     
  14. markymiles

    markymiles
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  15. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    I guess the question is whether you need 8" woofers on the ceiling

    the smaller coax is only 4" deep so you could mount that on the ceiling instead and it wouldn't be too intrusive
     
  16. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Yeah getting ahead of myself as usual, especially with money I don't have. I think they would be just fine. Didn't notice how small they were. How cute :)
     
  17. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    had a quick look at the 6hx150 in an IB sized box, rated power + 120Hz LR4 high pass results in ~3.2mm excursion so that seems pretty safe (+3dB for rated burst power takes it to xmax)

    I would think that would be pretty offensive to whatever is above that room mind you and the modelled response is identical in a 10L box so (if it were me) I would put it in a box
     
  18. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Thanks seems like they will do the job. Luckily the people above won't be there as they will be listening below ;). I imagine it will transmit everywhere upstairs though.

    Putting in a box does seem a lot harder to accomplish. Really does depend if I feel like ruining the carpet upstairs so I can get under the floorboards. I find you never get carpet to go back down as good as when it's fitted.
     
  19. markymiles

    markymiles
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    I think I'll try it without a box to start with. Can always add a box afterwards if it's a problem.
     
  20. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Don't know if these are any good. Cd looks a little ragged but on sale atm for £105 from Blue aran.

    8CX
     
  21. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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  22. markymiles

    markymiles
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    That was literally all I could find too. I don't know how bad they could be. Obviously bigger, but more capable due to 8" and more xmax, wider dispersion (allegedly) and £20 cheaper than the Faital Pro.

    I am tempted, shame I can't find a few more users.
     
  23. markymiles

    markymiles
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    If I get the Oberton's which I am leaning towards, going back to my original point I then need to decide which 8" are better. There is a suggestion on that Oberton thread that they are on another level to eminence drivers. Only one persons view of course. Fairly easy to adjust the baffle on my surrounds to accommodate the better driver if that's the case though.

    Using the Volts as Atmos also has a couple of advantages, nice and compact crossover, circular surround which is easier for the ceiling to make something like the link on the 1st post.
     
  24. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    that decision would just be a case of build speaker and compare to existing one (though if the oberton is competent then my guess is they will be much of a muchness for the intended use)
     
  25. markymiles

    markymiles
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    You do realise that by suggesting non commercial/DIYSG that I will need some help with the crossover. Obviously only 2 way though so not as hard this time.

    Maybe that's why you were suggesting the 6HX150 as there was one already pretty much done there :D
     
  26. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    the woofer will need to change quite a bit anyway tbh

    regarding measurements for this one, I reckon you have 2 choices

    1) build an IEC standard baffle (e.g. http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/IEC baffle.jpg) which seems to be basically a big sheet of material with a hole cut in it)
    2) mount the speaker in the ceiling and measure it in place

    the latter seems like the pragmatic way to go
     
  27. markymiles

    markymiles
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    2) will be fine I would have thought. Can still do a standard 1m distance away pointing up type measurements. Would have to be a little careful what with it being a ceiling, wouldn't want to put it in and take out too many times.

    I was looking at the XTZ Atmos speakers, they are only 5 1/4" drivers. Maybe 6-6.5" will be ample.
     
  28. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    I would probably stick it in there and then leave the crossover outside for convenience, 2x the speaker cable mind you
     
  29. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Yeah that's the next issue to overcome. How to get the cable there :eek:
     
  30. PsyVision

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    I'm going for some Volt-6 atmos when the time comes. Thankfully I have some good space to sit them up in the ceiling.
     

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