Improving music sound quality in AV setup

Oswald

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I have a Marantz SR7008 receiver and associated kit which I am very happy with for movie watching. However, I have found myself listening to music more than expected, and find the two-channel sound quality to be a bit lacking (perhaps not surprising as I previously had a Sugden A21a amp for music - now sold!). I use a pair of Ruark Equinox as my front / music speakers.

The question is: Do I need to add a (two-channel) power amp to improve music sound quality?
 
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I don't know if the 7008 is good for 2 channel, another option would be to add a stereo integrated amplifier, or a stereo pre-amplifier and two channel power amplifier, to add stereo playback bypassing the 7008 apart from home cinema, you use the L/R preouts.

A Power amplifier may help for high levels, but if you find it mediocre at at all levels it may be the DAC or the pre-amp in the 7008.

Try a stereo integrated amplifier first.
 
I don't know if the 7008 is good for 2 channel,
According to reviews it is one of the best AV receivers for music in its price band, but I think I was rather spoiled by the Sugden. :)
another option would be to add a stereo integrated amplifier, or a stereo pre-amplifier and two channel power amplifier...
I want to have a single system that can be used for both movies and music, so I'm not sure why I would add a stereo integrated amplifier?
...to add stereo playback bypassing the 7008 apart from home cinema, you use the L/R preouts.
Yes. I had assumed that the recommended configuration (using pre-outs) would be:
Source -> Marantz SR7008 Receiver -> Stereo Power Amp -> Ruark Equinox speakers
A Power amplifier may help for high levels, but if you find it mediocre at at all levels it may be the DAC or the pre-amp in the 7008.
It seems lacking in detail and oomph when playing orchestral music at mid/high volume (again, compared to the audiophile Sugden amp I used to own).
Try a stereo integrated amplifier first.
:confused:
 
Changing from AVR to AVR may not yield substantial sound quality improvement.

A stereo integrated may do that. Even though it makes it more complicated 2 box system.

Do you have a subwoofer, are your Ruark Equinox set to large or small with a sub?

spec of your speakers.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/ruark-equinox-loudspeaker-specifications

I'd try a power amplifier if you can, but tbh I think a higher quality pre may offer more.
 
Changing from AVR to AVR may not yield substantial sound quality improvement.
Hi Stephen. I was not considering changing AVR, but rather adding a stereo power amp to my existing system.
A stereo integrated may do that. Even though it makes it more complicated 2 box system.
I don't understand why you're suggesting an integrated amplifier though - surely I would add a power amp using the pre-outs and continue to use my SR7008 for volume control, processing, etc?? :confused:
Do you have a subwoofer
Yes, a REL Q200E.
are your Ruark Equinox set to large or small with a sub?
I have experimented quite a bit, and prefer small with the sub. Crossover set to 60 Hz.
 
The 7008 is better than most in terms of its stereo abilities, but doesn't outclass your sugden and is not the best in terms of dynamic power. The receiver will not equal or better a dedicated and simarly priced stereo integrated amplifier in terms of stereo reproduction.

Whether you need to add an external power amp really depends on whether you can add a power amp that betters the receiver's own internal amplification or if you feel you want to go down this road? How much do you want to marginally improve the stereo performance and are you willing to spend the kind of money it will cost you to do so?
 
I'm just giving you options. You may do one, or more of the following. In no set order of preference and depends on if you want it simple (one box AVR) or multiple boxes. From two, to multiple (even more so if monoblocs)

1) Replace the Marantz with a higher quality AVR
2) Add a power amplifier, from 2 channel amp to multi-channel (replace some or all amps)
3) Add a stereo integrated amplifier
4) Add a stereo pre-amplifier & power amplifier

"surely I would add a power amp and continue to use my SR7008 for volume control, processing, etc??"

That would be option 2. But stereo performance is still limited to your AVR. Option 3 & 4 may offer superior sound quality.

Personally I keep my 2 channel and HT separate. I wouldn't like to use my AVR for sole 2 channel it's ok but not brilliant. Audiolab 8000Q/PX/PX beats it.
 
I'm just giving you options. You may do one, or more of the following. In no set order of preference and depends on if you want it simple (one box AVR) or multiple boxes. From two, to multiple (even more so if mono blocs).

1) Replace the Marantz with a higher quality AVR
2) Add a power amplifier, from 2 channel amp to multi-channel (replace some or all amps)
3) Add a stereo integrated amplifier
4) Add a stereo pre-amplifier & power amplifier
OK - understood.

Options 3 and 4 are... well, not options
for me. Option 1 would result in ego and spousal acceptance damage (!), but I guess I should consider it (Anthem 310?). Option 2 is what I was considering... :)
"surely I would add a power amp and continue to use my SR7008 for volume control, processing, etc??"

That would be option 2. But stereo performance is still limited to your AVR. Option 3 & 4 may offer superior sound quality.

Personally I keep my 2 channel and HT separate. I wouldn't like to use my AVR for sole 2 channel it's ok but not brilliant. Audiolab 8000Q/PX/PX beats it.
Interesting comments, thank-you.

I have been offered a very good deal on a second-hand Audiolab 8000P, and was considering purchasing that as a power amp. Any thoughts (as you're an Audiolab owner)?
 
Not bad, although the PX's are superior. Also may need new PSU caps after these years (unless it's the IAG Audiolab)

I have SX's for side/rears, PX's for L/R biamping in the hifi, ATI 2003 in the home theatre. I used to have 5 Audiolabs in the home theatre, bi-amping front three.
 
The 7008 is better than most in terms of its stereo abilities, but doesn't outclass your sugden and is not the best in terms of dynamic power. The receiver will not equal or better a dedicated and simarly priced stereo integrated amplifier in terms of stereo reproduction.
Yes, I do appreciate that.
Whether you need to add an external power amp really depends on whether you can add a power amp that betters the receiver's own internal amplification or if you feel you want to go down this road? How much do you want to marginally improve the stereo performance and are you willing to spend the kind of money it will cost you to do so?
Budget is hundreds rather than thousands (and I'm open to second-hand kit).
 
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If you buy an amp to add to the Marantz, what do you predict that amp would be? That is, do you have a specific amp in mind?

Can you give us a sense of how much you are willing to spend on this new Power amp?

As has been noted, the Marantz, in its price range, is noted for very good music quality sound.

Marantz UK | SR7008

Sound and Vision Review of the Marantz SR7008 -

Marantz SR7008 A/V Receiver | Sound & Vision

You have to spend a substantial enough amount of money so the amp you buy exceeds the amp you have. Power Amps are generally more expensive. I can't see how you can possible spend less than about £750 for a Power Amp of sufficient quality and size.

Rotel RB1552 MKII Power Amplifier

Marantz MM7025 AV Power Amplifier Black

Steve/bluewizard
 
but I guess I should consider it (Anthem 310?)

I have not used or heard the kit you have, but I have moved to Anthem MRX with ARC in 2 rooms.

MRX300 in one room with Monitor Audio speakers and SVS sub, MRX710 in other room with B&W speakers and SVS sub. Both systems have me listening to music or watching movies with a big grin on my face.

In the 710 room the old kit was Arcam amps with a Yamaha AVR (bypassed for music) so I think it is fair to say the Anthem can sound nice with music.

Julian.
 
If you buy an amp to add to the Marantz, what do you predict that amp would be? That is, do you have a specific amp in mind?
As already mentioned I have been considering a second-hand Audiolab 8000P, but am otherwise open to suggestions. I would certainly consider the two ~£750 options you linked to.
 
I have not used or heard the kit you have, but I have moved to Anthem MRX with ARC in 2 rooms.

MRX300 in one room with Monitor Audio speakers and SVS sub, MRX710 in other room with B&W speakers and SVS sub. Both systems have me listening to music or watching movies with a big grin on my face.

In the 710 room the old kit was Arcam amps with a Yamaha AVR (bypassed for music) so I think it is fair to say the Anthem can sound nice with music.

Julian.
Thanks for the comments on Anthem. I started off not wanting to upgrade my AVR, but I think I need to consider that option too... :eek:
 
Buying an additional amp is a good way to upgrade an existing system, but I don't recommended that people buy a new AV amp and add a Stereo Amp to it. Better to simply buy a better AV Amp. Not suggesting what you are doing, simply commenting on the general economics.

The Marantz SR7008, as you can see from the review I posted, is a very highly regarded AV Receiver with very good Music capability. But, there are limits to everything.

In a really first rate Stereo Power amp, I would suggest the Parasound Halo A23 with 125w/ch, but at the considerable price of £1000.

Product Lines > Halo > A 23 Two Channel Power Amplifier

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=parasound+halo+a23

You have to ask yourself if you want to spend £1000 more, or if you would rather dump your existing amp, which should gain you some money, and then spend a considerable £2200?

Or, the least costly option, just learn to live with what you have?

If you choose to off-load your existing amp, consider how much you will get for it.

The current Marantz SR7008 are running a bit under £1000, which means you can probably get in the range of £500 to £700 for your existing amp. Is that going to be enough return to make it worth investing in a better AV Receiver?

Marantz SR7009 9.2ch Network AV Receiver

So, the upgrade possibilities are -

1.) Sell Marantz for ~£600, then spend £1600 on the Anthem.

2.) Keep the Marantz and spend £1000 on a Power Amp.

3.) Consider keeping the Marantz and adding one of the AudioLab amps. The current new AudioLab 8200P is about £650 from several sources. The Power is 100w/ch to 8 ohms RMS.

One advantage of a separate amp on the Front Channels is that it draws on its own Power Supply. Most Stereo amps have overrated power supplies - meaning 100w/ch will have a 300w Power Supply. Most AV Receivers have underrated power supplies - meaning if you have 7x100w channels, the Power Supply might be 500w. Though amps like the Anthem have pretty strong power supplies.

The last consideration is the size of your room and how far away you sit. The greater the distances, the more power you need.

In a Pre/Processor + Power Amp system, there are two companies that I know of that make a 3-channel amp (Parasound, Emotiva). If you are building a 5.1 with discrete amplifiers, a 2-channel in front, and a 3-channel for the Center and Rear would be my personal preference ...you know... should I ever win the Lottery. My preference would be to build a AV Surround system with discrete amps, though that gets quite expensive. But that is a completely different matter.

From the options I listed, you have to weigh which is the financially best path for you.

If you are sure it provides the quality you need, then perhaps the AudioLab 8200P is the best choice in terms of lowest budget. But make sure the amp lives up to your quality requirements.

Steve/bluewizard
 
You'd be exceedingly lucky to get £600 for the SR7008 secondhand. Its Atmos enabled replacement the SR7009 can be purchased new for under £1k. The SR7008 isn't the current model and was replaced by the SR7009 nearly a year ago. This too will be replaced this year so the SR7008 is close to 2 years old now.

Depreciation has never been kind to AV receivers.
 
Buying an additional amp is a good way to upgrade an existing system, but I don't recommended that people buy a new AV amp and add a Stereo Amp to it. Better to simply buy a better AV Amp. Not suggesting what you are doing, simply commenting on the general economics.
Understood.
The Marantz SR7008, as you can see from the review I posted, is a very highly regarded AV Receiver with very good Music capability. But, there are limits to everything.
Agreed. Like I said, I think I was just spoiled with the Sugden for music.
In a really first rate Stereo Power amp, I would suggest the Parasound Halo A23 with 125w/ch, but at the considerable price of £1000.

Product Lines > Halo > A 23 Two Channel Power Amplifier

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=parasound+halo+a23

You have to ask yourself if you want to spend £1000 more, or if you would rather dump your existing amp, which should gain you some money, and then spend a considerable £2200?

Or, the least costly option, just learn to live with what you have?
"Learn to live with what you have"... That sounds far too sensible (!) but again it is a fair point.
If you choose to off-load your existing amp, consider how much you will get for it.
The current Marantz SR7008 are running a bit under £1000, which means you can probably get in the range of £500 to £700 for your existing amp. Is that going to be enough return to make it worth investing in a better AV Receiver?

Marantz SR7009 9.2ch Network AV Receiver

So, the upgrade possibilities are -

1.) Sell Marantz for ~£600, then spend £1600 on the Anthem.

2.) Keep the Marantz and spend £1000 on a Power Amp.

3.) Consider keeping the Marantz and adding one of the AudioLab amps. The current new AudioLab 8200P is about £650 from several sources. The Power is 100w/ch to 8 ohms RMS.

One advantage of a separate amp on the Front Channels is that it draws on its own Power Supply. Most Stereo amps have overrated power supplies - meaning 100w/ch will have a 300w Power Supply. Most AV Receivers have underrated power supplies - meaning if you have 7x100w channels, the Power Supply might be 500w. Though amps like the Anthem have pretty strong power supplies.

The last consideration is the size of your room and how far away you sit. The greater the distances, the more power you need.
My room is roughly 12 foot square with 9 foot high ceilings.
In a Pre/Processor + Power Amp system, there are two companies that I know of that make a 3-channel amp
(Parasound, Emotiva). If you are building a 5.1 with discrete amplifiers, a 2-channel in front, and a 3-channel for the Center and Rear would be my personal preference ...you know... should I ever win the Lottery. My preference would be to build a AV Surround system with discrete amps, though that gets quite expensive. But that is a completely different matter.

From the options I listed, you have to weigh which is the financially best path for you.

If you are sure it provides the quality you need, then perhaps the AudioLab 8200P is the best choice in terms of lowest budget. But make sure the amp lives up to your quality requirements.

Steve/bluewizard
Thank-you for all your comments.
 
You'd be exceedingly lucky to get £600 for the SR7008 secondhand. Its Atmos enabled replacement the SR7009 can be purchased new for under £1k. The SR7008 isn't the current model and was replaced by the SR7009 nearly a year ago. This too will be replaced this year so the SR7008 is close to 2 years old now.

Depreciation has never been kind to AV receivers.
Hmm. I wonder how many people will actually deploy Atmos in their homes... do you want to spend ~£1k on the SR7009 with Atmos or ~£600 for virtually the same receiver without Atmos? Anyway, getting a bit off topic...
 
Ceiling speakers is getting too much. Unless my new home has them already fitted and wired up.
 
Hmm. I wonder how many people will actually deploy Atmos in their homes... do you want to spend ~£1k on the SR7009 with Atmos or ~£600 for virtually the same receiver without Atmos? Anyway, getting a bit off topic...

I wasn't suggesting he buy the SR7009, I was using it to define how much he can expect to get for his SR7008. Why would anyone want the SR7008 when they can get the SR7009 for so little? You'd have to sell it on at considerable loss to make it an appealing option.
 
I wasn't suggesting he buy the SR7009, I was using it to define how much he can expect to get for his SR7008. Why would anyone want the SR7008 when they can get the SR7009 for so little? You'd have to sell it on at considerable loss to make it an appealing option.
I know you weren't suggesting that I buy it. My point was that someone could save £400 or more by buying a second-hand SR7008 rather than a new SR7009 if they did't need Atmos (as there's otherwise little apparent difference between the two). But, as I said, that's somewhat off the subject of this thread...
 

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