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Imposition of Martial Law

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
I see a lot of people, both here, and on social media in general, who really don't seem to be taking CV19 seriously - even stating that they're not going to bother self-isolating, and an effective 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.

Having heard from my wife, who will shortly be on 'the front-line' (she sort of is already, but as yet, none of her patients have developed CV19), about the measures being 'rushed' into place to help the medical staff who will most definitely be dealing with the seriously ill and dying. It seems there is a huge disconnect between what the general public feel about various measures being 'imposed' on them and how, or whether, that same general public are going to bother with them - or whether they're going to rely on 'other people' making a sacrifice, while they carry on as normal.

I cannot stress this enough - life as we know it, is no longer an option!

And I feel that if people choose to disregard, what are, at the moment, 'suggestions' on how to stay safe, both for ones own sake, and for the sake of others - then we will be 'forced' to comply with the government's instructions. Which will, most likely, involve the military being on the streets making sure only essential workers are out and about.

It's happening in other countries, and I fully expect that we will see it in the British Isles in the next month or so.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I see a lot of people, both here, and on social media in general, who really don't seem to be taking CV19 seriously - even stating that they're not going to bother self-isolating, and an effective 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.

Having heard from my wife, who will shortly be on 'the front-line' (she sort of is already, but as yet, none of her patients have developed CV19), about the measures being 'rushed' into place to help the medical staff who will most definitely be dealing with the seriously ill and dying. It seems there is a huge disconnect between what the general public feel about various measures being 'imposed' on them and how, or whether, that same general public are going to bother with them - or whether they're going to rely on 'other people' making a sacrifice, while they carry on as normal.

I cannot stress this enough - life as we know it, is no longer an option!

And I feel that if people choose to disregard, what are, at the moment, 'suggestions' on how to stay safe, both for ones own sake, and for the sake of others - then we will be 'forced' to comply with the government's instructions. Which will, most likely, involve the military being on the streets making sure only essential workers are out and about.

It's happening in other countries, and I fully expect that we will see it in the British Isles in the next month or so.
We have a police force to ensure legal matters are complied with, not the military. The police are well trained and used to making people 'comply'. Martial Law would be the biggest indication that the government has cocked up bigtime. It's not going to happen in the current situation.

However if you want to put the tin foil hat on it could be said by some (not that I subscribe to this view) that the Conservative government has been itching for some time to be able to impose martial law. Plans were drawn up for it in the event of a no deal Brxxx causing food shortages and rioting. So far we have temporary food shortages only.

Martial Law has never been imposed on the British mainland on a countrywide scale. I doubt the current PM would want to go down in the history books as being the first one to do it.

The last thing the over stretched NHS needs is having to deal with gunshot wounds on a large scale while overwhelmed by covid-19.

Mods: this thread may be better moved to the politics forum.
 
Last edited:

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
We are British, have a cup of tea.
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
We have a police force to ensure legal matters are complied with, not the military. The police are well trained and used to making people 'comply'. Martial Law would be the biggest indication that the government has cocked up bigtime. It's not going to happen in the current situation.

However if you want to put the tin foil hat on it could be said by some (not that I subscribe to this view) that the Conservative government has been itching for some time to be able to impose martial law. Plans were drawn up for it in the event of a no deal Brxxx causing food shortages and rioting. So far we have temporary food shortages only.

Martial Law has never been imposed on the British mainland on a countrywide scale. I doubt the current PM would want to go down in the history books as being the first one to do it.

The last thing the over stretched NHS needs is having to deal with gunshot wounds on a large scale while overwhelmed by covid-19.

Mods: this thread may be better moved to the politics forum.
I don’t think the already overstretched police force would cope with setting up the necessary roadblocks and checkpoints required to enforce compliance.

Maybe the traffic wombles could be reallocated from their Motorway duties?

Maybe it wouldn’t be ‘Martial Law’ per se, but I do believe the military will be mobilised to assist in making sure everyone is complying with the various edicts.

I don’t see this as a political move; it is simply a function of not having enough personnel in current roles to enforce the governments commands.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I don’t think the already overstretched police force would cope with setting up the necessary roadblocks and checkpoints required to enforce compliance.
And where would these roadblocks and checkpoints be set up. At the bottom of every street?
The motorways? Main A and B roads in every town? Look at the logistics of trying to roadblock Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield etc etc.
Even with the entire UK military there just isn't the mainpower available to attempt this.
Maybe it wouldn’t be ‘Martial Law’ per se, but I do believe the military will be mobilised to assist in making sure everyone is complying with the various edicts.

I don’t see this as a political move; it is simply a function of not having enough personnel in current roles to enforce the governments commands.
The military doesn't have any legal powers greater than that of an ordinary citizen except when martial law is declared.
I don’t see this as a political move; it is simply a function of not having enough personnel in current roles to enforce the governments commands.
The government, like the police, rely on the consent of the population. Trying to enforce compliance of their 'commands' that the population doesn't agree with is doomed to failure.

Look at the fate of Nicolae Ceaușescu if you want to see how even a full on police state can fail. One with, at the time, a much larger military and police than the UK.
Total population of Romania at that time 23 million. Romanian military personnel: 480,000,
UK population 67 million, UK total armed forces currently: approx 150,000. (75K army, 30K RAF and 30K Navy). And don't forget the UK army is currently spread around the world, not all in the U.K.

An education program would have better results and easier results. Something perhaps along the lines of the hard hitting HIV adverts. 'It was a life-and-death situation. Wards were full of young men dying': How we made the Don't Die of Ignorance Aids campaign
FIlmed in ICU wards in the final stages of covid-19 as those infected choke their last breaths. "If you don't want this to happen to you and your family PLEASE follow the advice we give you".
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
I see a lot of people, both here, and on social media in general, who really don't seem to be taking CV19 seriously - even stating that they're not going to bother self-isolating, and an effective 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.

Having heard from my wife, who will shortly be on 'the front-line' (she sort of is already, but as yet, none of her patients have developed CV19), about the measures being 'rushed' into place to help the medical staff who will most definitely be dealing with the seriously ill and dying. It seems there is a huge disconnect between what the general public feel about various measures being 'imposed' on them and how, or whether, that same general public are going to bother with them - or whether they're going to rely on 'other people' making a sacrifice, while they carry on as normal.

I cannot stress this enough - life as we know it, is no longer an option!

And I feel that if people choose to disregard, what are, at the moment, 'suggestions' on how to stay safe, both for ones own sake, and for the sake of others - then we will be 'forced' to comply with the government's instructions. Which will, most likely, involve the military being on the streets making sure only essential workers are out and about.

It's happening in other countries, and I fully expect that we will see it in the British Isles in the next month or so.
I quite understand you are frightened by the exponential growth of coronavirus and the savoir-faire attitude of many people to the virus. This is a British thing and comes to the fore when our backs are against the wall.

It is a form of defence - a defiance against an enemy. A show of resistance to highlight we will not be defeated and will not give in.

That is all it is: defiance. Rest assured the fright is underneath, hidden from view. This does not mean a lack of caring or not taking it seriously. The 'don't care' attitude is only a front to hide the uncertainty.
 
I'm with @The Dreamer on this one. The disobedience has been seeded, you can see it happening on these forums and these threads many a time. On a micro level, I've been seeing it all around me; businesses continue with their commute even though they could work from home, the pubs/tea rooms etc continue to be filled up with people, I've never met that many people without dogs before when I'm walking ours, the golf clubs are filled up. It is crazy and non-sensical in my opinion.

Drugs and drink use will increase, violence will start to increase, burglaries are already on the rise.

This is the classic playbook stuff for a pandemic.

And with schools now closed, that is another group on the streets. I appreciate it became unavoidable as many parents started to keep their own children away. I think the Government strategy was spot on their opposed to doing it weeks ago as some wanted.
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
And where would these roadblocks and checkpoints be set up. At the bottom of every street?
The motorways? Main A and B roads in every town? Look at the logistics of trying to roadblock Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield etc etc.
Even with the entire UK military there just isn't the mainpower available to attempt this.
I don’t know, I’m not an expert in this field, just a casual but concerned observer. It would be for the strategic commanders on the day to decide where any checkpoints were located.

Roving patrols, or fixed checkpoints - either could be deployed. Just as they used to be in Northern Ireland. It may mean just large cities being ‘locked down’, with entry in and out being restricted.

The military doesn't have any legal powers greater than that of an ordinary citizen except when martial law is declared.
Then ‘martial law’ it is then. Again, I’m no expert, but I would expect the government to declare various emergency measures, giving powers to various agencies to restrict and detain people who are non-compliant.

The government, like the police, rely on the consent of the population. Trying to enforce compliance of their 'commands' that the population doesn't agree with is doomed to failure.
Then anarchy, and the end of civilisation follows.

Look at the fate of Nicolae Ceaușescu if you want to see how even a full on police state can fail. One with, at the time, a much larger military and police than the UK.
Total population of Romania at that time 23 million. Romanian military personnel: 480,000,
UK population 67 million, UK total armed forces currently: approx 150,000. (75K army, 30K RAF and 30K Navy). And don't forget the UK army is currently spread around the world, not all in the U.K.
A totally different scenario, the population of Romania got fed up with his police-state over a long period of time, before organising revolution, and his overthrow. Whilst this pandemic is ongoing, the majority of people will comply with enforcement - but there may well need to be ‘enforcement’ in the first place.

An education program would have better results and easier results. Something perhaps along the lines of the hard hitting HIV adverts. 'It was a life-and-death situation. Wards were full of young men dying': How we made the Don't Die of Ignorance Aids campaign
FIlmed in ICU wards in the final stages of covid-19 as those infected choke their last breaths. "If you don't want this to happen to you and your family PLEASE follow the advice we give you".
I would certainly expect this too. I don’t believe putting the military on the streets to be the only solution (if it’s a solution at all), but it is an option available to the government, and it will be being explored by various departments, just as we’re debating it here. (Albeit, hopefully, those making the decisions have a lot more expertise available to them than we keyboard warriors have).
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
The military doesn't have any legal powers greater than that of an ordinary citizen except when martial law is declared.
You put one soldier with one policeman. The policeman does the arresting and you've doubled the numbers available.
UK population 67 million, UK total armed forces currently: approx 150,000. (75K army, 30K RAF and 30K Navy).
The British Armed Forces are a professional force with a strength of 146,500 UK Regulars and Gurkhas, 36,430 Volunteer Reserves and 7,820 "Other Personnel" as of 1 January 2019. This gives a total strength of 190,750 "UK Service Personnel".
 

mij

Well-known Member
Two relations of mine fairly recently joined up, absolutely terrifying if them two morons end up with powers over us.
 

gavinhanly

Well-known Member
I think you're more looking at the likelihood of servicemen helping the emergency services situation as opposed to a The Siege/Escape from New York situation.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
I think you're more looking at the likelihood of servicemen helping the emergency services situation as opposed to a The Siege/Escape from New York situation.
I think that's what some are getting excited about :laugh:

Adding Escape to New York to my watchlist :D

No-one need bother with The Siege.

Anyone who feels comfort over the Army on the Streets has clearly never watched 28 Days Later.
Adding to the list. 28 Weeks Later may also be a good reference point from this date.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Anyone who feels comfort over the Army on the Streets has clearly never watched 28 Days Later.
You need to watch Shaun of the Dead. The army sorts it out in five minutes at the end.

 

nheather

Distinguished Member
From what a reasonably reliable source has told me, expect some quite severe travel restrictions and other measures from the weekend.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
From what a reasonably reliable source has told me, expect some quite severe travel restrictions and other measures from the weekend.

Cheers,

Nigel
Indeed, I would expect a similar system as France has adopted to become enforced over the next period...

I.e. when travelling you need to self certify and provide the reason as you may be stopped and questioned about it.
 

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Sonic67

Distinguished Member
 

paulyoung666

Distinguished Member
We have a police force to ensure legal matters are complied with, not the military. The police are well trained and used to making people 'comply'. Martial Law would be the biggest indication that the government has cocked up bigtime. It's not going to happen in the current situation.

However if you want to put the tin foil hat on it could be said by some (not that I subscribe to this view) that the Conservative government has been itching for some time to be able to impose martial law. Plans were drawn up for it in the event of a no deal Brxxx causing food shortages and rioting. So far we have temporary food shortages only.

Martial Law has never been imposed on the British mainland on a countrywide scale. I doubt the current PM would want to go down in the history books as being the first one to do it.

The last thing the over stretched NHS needs is having to deal with gunshot wounds on a large scale while overwhelmed by covid-19.

Mods: this thread may be better moved to the politics forum.
The police force we have would not be big enough , what job do Military Police do , do they have power over the public the same as regular police or not ?

I'm not sure that anyone would be itching to impose martial law to be honest.

Why shouldn't Boris impose it if necessary , just because it hasn't happened yet means nothing.

Do you really think there would be mass shootings in the streets !!!

Finally , I am sure the Mods know their jobs ........
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Why shouldn't Boris impose it if necessary , just because it hasn't happened yet means nothing.
Agreed. If the situation develops in the 'wrong direction' all bets are off!

Though, I would think, it would be a measure of last resort.

Do you really think there would be mass shootings in the streets !!!
I very much doubt it. Civil unrest might occur at some point, but seeing how other countries are coping (or not) and we are yet to see any signs of real unrest, I would say that civil unrest is a long way down the road...... though if the scenes in Asda, Tescos and the like are anything to go by..... maybe not far away at all! :eek: :(
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
The police force we have would not be big enough , what job do Military Police do , do they have power over the public the same as regular police or not ?
No. They merely have the same powers of citizen's arrest as the general public has.
Military police of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
Do you really think there would be mass shootings in the streets !!!
That seems to be what some people are itching to see. All those nasty toilet roll panic buyers gunned down. That'll lurn them...
 

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