Import VHS to PC/Mac but video is in B&W? Why?

BigBlockOfCheese

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Hi,

As above. My set up is:

1. Panasonic NV-SD410 VHS player outputting via SCART, to
---> 2. SCART dongle with In/Out switch set to Out, connected to
-------> 3. RCAs - Yellow video, plus Red and White audio, connected to
-----------> 4. UVC USB Video Capture device (brand new), connected to
---------------> 5. Computer (I've tried Windows 10 PC and MacOS Big Sur)

When I play through any VHS tapes, the video that is received on the computer is in black and white. Same thing on PC and Mac, no matter if I select PAL/NTSC in software where such options exist.

Strangely, if I use the Ceefax style menu system on the VCR, that gets transmitted through to the computer in perfect colour, but that video may be encoded somehow differently to the raw video on the tape.

For reference, I am *not* using S-Video for this process, I am using RCA yellow (with no S-Video cable connected).
However, both the SCART dongle and the USB capture device support S-Video, and I've tried that too, but the video being received into the computer is still black and white.

Has anybody got any good ideas about where the problem is, and what I can do to get colour through to the computer?
For reference, I tried another Panasonic VCR, which is older and played less well, but that too transmitted in black and white, not colour.

I'm guessing there is a weak link in my chain somewhere here, but am unsure where the problem lies.
 
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Update: Items 1, 2 and 3 in the chain do produce colour when plugged directly into a TV... suggesting the USB capture device is the problem...

Anyone with experience/bright ideas, I still value your input!
 
Does the capture programme have an options panel that defaults to s-video?
 
Does the capture programme have an options panel that defaults to s-video?
No. On the Mac I'm using the standard Quicktime application and there are really no options beyond selecting the source - and on Windows I'm using the supplied software "Honestech VHS to DVD" which doesn't have options either.

I'm fairly certain now that the USB capture device is the weak link, so am returning it and going to try another one, but in the meantime have revamped my hardware chain so it is now as follows:

1. Panasonic NV-SD410 VHS player outputting via SCART, to
---> 2. SCART dongle with In/Out switch set to Out, connected to
-------> 3. RCAs - Yellow video, plus Red and White audio, all combined into a male 3.5mm pin connected to
-----------> 4. Sony PC120E DV Camera, connected via FireWire 400 to
---------------> 5. iMac G4, importing via iMovie HD, then transferring via USB2 hard disc to
-------------------> 6. Modern computer

It's a pain in the butt! But I'm happy that I have a temporary solution, while I wait for something that will go directly from step 3 to a modern computer platform...
 
There's a fair chance your bodged system will be better than the capture card!

I think the issue is that the capture card is unable to resolve the colour information from the player. Were the tapes originally recorded on it or are they definitely the same standard and colour frequency? There's some oddities out there and although the TV can resolve the information, the capture card is struggling. If it's a commercial tape, it may have copy code - which the capture card will sense and either block or not record properly.

Ideally you want a Time Base Corrector in the circuit, along with a Proc Amp. This allows you to re-time the video, remove any copycode and stabilise and correct the video prior to it getting to the PC or Mac.
 
There's a fair chance your bodged system will be better than the capture card!
Yes, I realised that although it's 20 years old, the Sony PC120E was a £1000 piece of hardware from a reputable manufacturer, compared to the £20 piece of plastic made by a no-name company!

I think the issue is that the capture card is unable to resolve the colour information from the player. Were the tapes originally recorded on it or are they definitely the same standard and colour frequency? There's some oddities out there and although the TV can resolve the information, the capture card is struggling. If it's a commercial tape, it may have copy code - which the capture card will sense and either block or not record properly.
The tapes are all non-commercial home movie type things, and all recorded in PAL (as I'm in Europe). The VCRs are all PAL, from Europe. So I don't think copy protection or colour formats are to blame. Although, I recognise you are a professional with more knowledge than me on this. I'm basically a prosumer, I've got some good tech background, but really no expert status at all when it comes to video formats on VHS!

Ideally you want a Time Base Corrector in the circuit, along with a Proc Amp. This allows you to re-time the video, remove any copycode and stabilise and correct the video prior to it getting to the PC or Mac.
Yes, I refer you to my previous point... this is where my knowledge ends! I have a replacement capture card coming tomorrow - but it's another £20 USB dongle from a no-name brand, so I don't hold out much hope. It would be helpful if it worked though, as saving it to the G4 iMac, then exporting it from iMovie HD to DV format, then transferring it via a USB2 hard disc is... well... laborious...

I will look into the hardware you suggested, and possibly learn a thing or two!

Thank you, by the way, for your input. It is really appreciated.
 
Update, just in case someone else ever has this problem and could benefit from what I'm learning:

The second USB video capture device arrived. This one is receiving colour footage from the source, but the tracking is wonky, with the video wavering all over the place.

So instead, I'm using my 20-year-old Sony DV camcorder with analog-to-digital passthrough, and it is working like a charm.

Moral of the story: Well made hardware by a manufacturer with experience wins every time, even if it is two decades old! The cheap tat is going back to Amazon for a refund. I suspect that the sellers know that at such a cheap price (around $20) some people won't bother to return it, but I'm getting my money back.

Next issue is the footage is probably interlaced, which is why Topaz Video Enchance AI didn't do well with it. So I need to learn how to take a DV file and get it uninterlaced...
 
If de-interlacing looks poor, it's normally because the field order has been swapped. This leads to horrible, jerky footage with a strobing or ripple effect.

Most editing software will either allow you to swap this or will correct it internally. I use Adobe Premiere Pro and never find an issue with footage captured from my 10 year old Pinnacle capture card in this respect.
 
Thanks!

I've been learning a *tonne* of stuff for the work I've been doing, which I'm certain is common knowledge to the people here, but in case it helps anyone...

I bought an AVerMedia CE310B Frame Grabber PCI card for my PC, there were two reasons for this:

1. This card has an S-Video input, which should mean higher quality transfer from VHS than my previous method which used Composite Video.

2. This would reduce the components in my workflow, as it would now be VHS to PC directly, instead of VHS, to Sony PC120 DV Camera via composite, to iMac G4 via FireWire, to modern computer via USB hard disc transfer.

However, I discovered a problem with each of these theories:

1. The PCI card may have an S-Video input, but my VCR doesn't have S-Video output, and although I'm using a SCART dongle that features an S-Video output, this won't work properly unless the VCR itself knows to output S-Video, which hardly any VCRs do. Hence, I got black and white footage via S-Video, which is what happens in this scenario as the VCR is only outputting a subset of the data necessary for S-Video to work, and with part of the signal missing, you only get black and white. Bummer! Time to track down one of the rare VCRs that offers proper S-Video output.

2. It turns out that the video imported using the PCI card suffers from "tearing", where the top of the image curves towards the left. This tearing was not present on my previous workflow. Research suggests this is because of timing issues, and it seems my Sony PC120 is a really quality piece of kit because it knows how to spot and correct these timing issues, preventing the tearing - whereas the AVerMedia PCI capture card does not. However, a decent VCR may correct this, particularly if it includes a time-based-corrector. So again, off to hunt for a quality VCR.

Anyway, that's today's epistle on my VHS adventures. More thrilling content to come!!
 
A Panasonic AG7650 is S-VHS and had a built in TBC. Rare as rocking horse poo, but if you are serious about copying VHS in the best possible quality, nothing else really comes close.

Failing that the JVC Multistandard player were also very good at playback from memory.

S-Video separates the chroma (colour) and luma (black and white) signals instead of combining them, which is why you only get a black and white signal with the capture card set to the wrong signal type.

This is just the signal connection, as the recording method of both SVHS and VHS splits the chrominance and luminance signals and records them at different frequencies onto the tape. VHS always re-combined the signals into a composite signal. I am not aware of any VHS players with an S-Video connection.

To be honest, the gains with a VHS tape is quite marginal. You only have about 250 lines of luminance and 30 or so lines of chrominance to begin with, so the loss through a composite connection is fairly small.
 
Thank you for your continued interest and advice.

I think you are probably right, that S-Video only started appearing on S-VHS models... but some people don't realise they've got an S-VHS and sell them as "VHS" hence a bit of confusion!

I did wonder whether there was much to be gained with going the S-Video route, over composite - I've not tested, but it is interesting to hear you say the quality in gain is fairly small.

The bit that I haven't wrapped my head around is the deinterlacing. On my VHS -> Sony PC120 DV Camcorder -> G4 iMac workflow, I'm wondering if something about that process kind of "burns in" the interlacing, making it hard to remove later, as I've not had much success with deinterlacing (trying both upper and lower field interpretations in Adobe Media Encoder).

The G4 iMac, using iMovie HD 6, imports a DV file... which is hidden inside the document structure. Exporting the video via iMovie annoyingly *recompresses* it, so I've been lifting the DV file directly out of the document structure, the problem with that is I think that is not standard DV, as many applications don't recognise it (include Adobe Media Encoder). Handbrake does however, but converting it to H264/5 in Handbrake before de-interlacing in Adobe Media Encoder is another lossy step.

Perhaps I should just try deinterlacing in Handbrake...
 

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