Imagining 10 dimensions - excellent video

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by INSOMANiAC, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. INSOMANiAC

    INSOMANiAC
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  2. Squiffy

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    That is brilliant.

    One of the best vids I've ever seen on the internet.
     
  3. INSOMANiAC

    INSOMANiAC
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    various instances of infinity within various universes is where I get stuck. Evidently my idea of infinity is incorrect
     
  4. Pat_C

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    I think I may have been permanently damaged by trying to follow this :(

    Interesting link though - thanks. I'll run through it again and perhaps follow it better from dimension 5 onwards. I imagine this is one of those cases where taking LSD might help.
     
  5. AgentCool

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    Good stuff and a pretty logical line of reasoning there.
     
  6. jason5_k

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    :rolleyes: i think i understand

    i need to lie down
     
  7. emporer

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    my head hurts
     
  8. ReBeL!!

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    Utterly confusing...

    Don't know how I managed to watch the entire thing though.
     
  9. INSOMANiAC

    INSOMANiAC
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    Ive watched it at least ten times and as far as im concerned its rubbish (I am NOT a physicist)

    It expects you to accept that anything above the 5th dimension is made of things that have never happened. to jump from one point of time to another you would have to pass through a piece of time that has never occured and in no way could ever occur.

    Another thing is

    , 'how can there be anything more than infinity ?, the answer is there can be other completely different infinities created through initial conditions that will create different universes"

    Im not buying that idea. Maybe my mind is too small to comprehend the scale of what is being discussed but if infinity to us is not infinity in the sense of the word we have come to accept then surely that means that infinity could theoretically be calculated to an end point as infinity doesnt actually contain everything. There could be a number that represents infinity. And if that is the case everything could be worked backwards until we come back to a single number which represents the beginning of each dimension in our universe.

    Could it be 12......?
     
  10. KoThreads

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    I was ok with it for a while then my brain parted company with the rest of me.
     
  11. Pat_C

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    I couldn't get my head around it either. But for any of this to work I think you have to accept the concept of infinity as being constrained by the limits of our understanding, and that the only thing that is certain is that our knowledge of the universe (taking into account the big bang, the expanding universe, dark matter, gravity, relativity etc.) is far from being complete. Some would consider that we've only really scratched the surface in terms of our understanding, and that there are many fundamental concepts we have yet to grasp.
     
  12. njp

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    It's even worse rubbish if you ARE a physicist...

    The only relationship between his theory and any theory of physics is the use of "ten" to describe the number of possible dimensions.

    He's taken that from string theory. But whereas string theory at least has a solid mathematical foundation, this is based on nothing more substantial than his own deranged imagination. The extra dimensions in string theory are compactified spatial dimensions - they have nothing whatsoever to do with time.

    Whether string theory itself is a proper scientific theory is debatable, because there may well be no way to test it. But if it is a fantasy, at least it is a mathematically consistent fantasy. This theory, on the other hand, is so lacking in substance that we can dismiss it as "not even wrong"...
     
  13. Praxidike

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    Seems like someone has been watching Back to the Future Part II, then made a video.
     
  14. Pat_C

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    You mean we've been roped into a thread about string?
     
  15. Bizman

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    Pat_C, you've cottoned on. :D
     
  16. njp

    njp
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    I think he was just spinning a yarn.
     
  17. Steve.J.Davies

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    As it says at the end of the video this is not accepted string theory.
    Early on it applies quantum physics to the macro (and large scale) universe. This is the biggest bugbear for to me. Quantum physics applies on the subatomic level. It has been the bugbear of physics for quite some time that large scale theory and quantum theory do not tally - hence the search for the theory of everything. This combined with the 'dark matter' postulate (aka there is an invisible guy behind the curtain who makes this trick work, trust me) show there is some way to go yet to describe the universe.
    String theory comes in then as a surprisingly convenient way of trying to explain it all. With no proof whatsoever and with no statement of any (verifiable) laws.

    Stargate (et al) fans will love the video though.
     
  18. Pat_C

    Pat_C
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    Sometimes you just have to take a firm strand.
     
  19. njp

    njp
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    So why bother? It's just another crap piece of metaphysical invention from yet another crackpot. The word "theory" is not applicable. The Internet is full of this sort of stuff.

    Nevertheless, General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics continue to pass every test devised for them. They are both astonishingly successful descriptions of physical reality, even though they are inconsistent!

    I think you are needlessly dismissive of dark matter and dark energy. These are not like Ptolomaic epicycles, conjured into existence to patch up a theory in crisis. Rather, they are predictions of current theories, and their existence is testable. If they turn out not to exist, the theories fall. That's proper science, and is the route through which elementary particles have often been revealed.

    So, yes, most of the Universe is missing. But there's a good chance we'll be able to find it!
     
  20. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    Predictions of theories - yes. Testable ? Please elucidate.
     
  21. Miyazaki

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    I am currently reading a book I got for christmas about this sort of thing and found this very interesting. Thanks!
     
  22. Miyazaki

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    I cannot fathom how string theory could ever be tested. Unless we were able to build a device that was capable of travelling in the 5th dimension. I believe that Einstein said that as we near the speed of light, or get closer and closer to an enormously dense object time dilates. If we were able to get to a point where time stood still, we would be able to observe all time at once, and supposedly be in the 5th dimension.

    However, I can't see how that would be possible as light has no mass, and we do, so we couldn't ever travel at or go faster than the speed of light, and we couldn't observe the universe from an infinitly dense location (beyond the event horizon of a black hole).

    This is all beyond my comprehension.

    One question I do have is; is the 10th dimension identical to the 1st dimension?
     
  23. Pat_C

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    If you could observe the tenth dimension from outside it than I imagine it would be. But then there would be an infinite number of dimensions, so perhaps not.

    Edit: although I assume you mean the single point, which I think was described as the zero dimension.
     
  24. njp

    njp
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    In the case of dark matter, you hypothesise particles that might carry the missing mass (e.g WIMPs) and then you devise experiments to look for them (either by direct or indirect detection). Several experiments of this type are ongoing.

    Dark energy is even more mysterious of course, which is particularly unfortunate as it supposedly makes up 74% of the mass of the Universe (with dark matter accounting for 22% and ordinary matter a mere 4%). The idea is that it permeates the entire volume of the Universe, and thus needs only a very low density to attain the required quantity - around 10E-29 g/cm3. That also makes it very hard to detect! The leading contenders for dark energy include a revised version of Einstein's Cosmological Constant (the very thing he once regarded as his greatest blunder!), and something called Quintessence. Some interesting reading (much better than my vague meanderings!) here:

    http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/13/11/8/1
     
  25. njp

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    If you are talking about the video, I neither know nor care, since it's all just made up.

    In string theory, of course not. Otherwise you wouldn't need the tenth dimension! The proper way to think about these extra dimensions is as additional degrees of freedom in which the strings can vibrate. Although we can only imagine vibrations occurring in three dimensions, the mathematics has no such limitations. I like to think about graphical representations of equations - if you wish to plot a graph of a function of one variable, y= f(x), you need a two dimensional graph. If you wish to plot a graph of a function of two variables, z = f(x,y), you need a three dimensional graph. But what happens when you want to plot a graph of three or more (n) variables? You can't do it! But the equations are just as real, and the mathematics copes effortlessly. The graph you want exists in an n+1 dimensional space - it's just that we can't imagine it.

    The reason there are ten dimensions in the currently fashionable incarnation of string theory is the result of deep mathematics beyond my comprehension! There have been other versions, and other numbers of dimensions...
     
  26. emporer

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    I'm expecting Doc Brown and Marty Mcfly to come along any minute.......
     
  27. signs

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    i wish i had understood it , because if i had i could go back in time and decide not to watch it...hence saving me 11.49 minutes of my life
     
  28. Miyazaki

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    So basically they have created a model to accomodate their mathematics?

    What forces govern how these strings vibrate?
     
  29. Miyazaki

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    How can the cosmological constant be ressurected? The whole concept relied on a universe that neither expanded nor contracted.

    Does it realte to the the energy and tension of the "fabric" of space, or is it something completely different?
     
  30. Miyazaki

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    I fail to comprehend that if there are supposedly infinite universes there can be a finite number of dimensions.

    It seems very lacksidasial and almost a cop-out to me.
     

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