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Image Noise DSLR vs Compact

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by monocrider, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. monocrider

    monocrider
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    At the moment I'm using a Canon Powershot G6 compact, and used within its limitations it's a great camera and overall I'm very pleased with it.

    Whilst it can take great noise-free images at ISO 50, once you start to crank up the "film speed" the amount of noise becomes unacceptable (to me) pretty quickly.

    Attached is an indoor shot taken at the cameras fastest speed of ISO 400. The pictures shows the full frame and then a 100% section from the middle. The image was taken without flash at F2.0, 1/60 second.

    For my needs, I would really like to be able to take pictures at ISO400 and greater, but without the noise shown on the attached.

    I'm thinking of upgrading to a DSLR - something along the lines of a 350D, 20D or Nikon 70S in terms of price bracket. Please could someone give me an idea of what sort of ISO I could use on this level of DSLR before I start getting noise levels like the attached ?

    Would shots taken at say ISO1600 on a DSLR be less noisy than my G6 at 400, or do I have unrealistic expectations ?

    Thanks in advance.

    Regards,
    John
     

    Attached Files:

  2. witters

    witters
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    In short, yes - by a distance :smashin:
     
  3. seany

    seany
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  4. dejongj

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    Absolutely...Though it is reported that the Canon's are a bit less noiceless than the Nikon D70s...Shame I am not at home as we've got the same baby thingy so I could demonstrate it :)
     
  5. RobertP

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    And not to be left out you can see some of my 20D iso1600 pictures in this thread :hiya:
     
  6. mr jones

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    any excuse to post a picture of wifeys ass eh seany! - hey man 8th of august im gonna be at the night and day cafe in manc for some good time music, you fancy coming down for a few?
     
  7. seany

    seany
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    Yeah i know it's big but it's my first image link form pbase go easy on me:laugh: iso1600

    [​IMG]








    Edit:

    Resized;)
     
  8. seany

    seany
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    I might have a bit of that jamie lad, i'm going hiking on the 7. If i'm not half dead i'll have it. If not though we'll sort something out for sure
     
  9. mr jones

    mr jones
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  10. seany

    seany
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    Really getting in to your band photogaphy now, improving all the time.

    Kevin Cummings is someone you want to check out just out of interest. Pretty famous with the NME at its best. Shot joy divison
     
  11. Peakoverload

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    Something that hasnt been mentioned is lighting and exposure with regards to noise.

    If you shoot say ISO 1600 on a DSLR in broad daylight (obviously stopping down to compensate) you will see far less noise than shooting with the same camera at ISO 1600 at night wide open and this is the same for compacts as well as DSLR's. The reason for this is simple. Noise LIVES in the dark areas. John, looking at the photos you took you can see even on your camera that there is less noise just on the edge of the cropped photo where the wall isnt in shadow compared to the rest of the image.

    If you have exposure compensation on your camera its worth experimenting by compensation by +1 stop in dark/dull conditions (basically anything other than daylight) when using higher ISO's.

    Where DSLR's have the advantage over compacts is the size of their sensor. The smaller the sensor the more prone to noise it is and DSLR's have bigger sensors than compacts hence less noise. So yes a DSLR at ISO 400 will produce less noise than a compact at ISO 400 in the same conditions but that is not to say that a DSLR will produce no noise or even low enough noise to make you happy unless you correctly expose the image in the first place.

    HTH
     
  12. Ikki

    Ikki
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    The new Fuji F10, S5600 and S9000 will go to iso1600 with low noise (for a non dslr).

    The DCRP F10 review compares the noise at iso1600 to a Nikon D70s. It may be an alternative if you don't want to go all the way to a dslr. The new S9000 looks pretty good, 9mp, iso1600, 10.7x wideangle zoom, flip out display etc.
     
  13. monocrider

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    Thanks everyone for your responses.

    Seany, that outdoor pic is a great shot - is it Edinburgh ? Looking at the Exif (F2.5 for 1/60 @ ISO1600) it was obviously taken in duller conditions than my shot (F2.0 for 1/60 @ ISO400), but it's lovely and clear.

    RobertP, I know it was taken at ISO100, but the pic of the horse being paraded is A1 - really sharp and clear, the 1600 concert pics are great too.

    Peakoverload, Thanks - some good points. When I did some test shots in bright sunlight the difference between 50 and 400 was nothing like as dramatic as is was on my indoor shots, which fits in with what your saying. I will do some experimenting with different ISO setting and exposure compensation and see how I get on. At the end of the day there's alway noise reduction in Photoshop, although obviously it's better if you can start out with a clean image !

    Ikki, Ta for that - I'll check out the new Fuji's.

    I can see myself ending up going down the DSLR path (not just because of the image noise issues), but in the meantime I'm pretty happy with the G6 (especially in daylight) and am getting to that point where I realise I have a lot to learn about photography in general and think that for now restricting myself to the equipment I currently have may be a good thing so that I can concentrate on composition etc. rather than either getting too bogged down in the technical or ending up on the path that keeps saying "my photos will be better if I have this piece of equipment..."

    Thanks again.

    Regards,
    John
     
  14. seany

    seany
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    Yes it's the castle mate, taken at 11:30 at night. In that light with your camera you'd have never of got 1/60 of a second.

    By the sounds of it you'd be well suited to a dslr
     
  15. seany

    seany
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    Another reason why it's pretty sharp is because of the lens i used, the 50mm F1.4 prime (fixed focal length). which is a great lens
     
  16. RobertP

    RobertP
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    This thread would be a lot easier to read if is wasn't so <------wide----->

    As wide as a wide picture of Edinburgh in my browser :rotfl:
     
  17. seany

    seany
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    Nothing good comes easy robert:laugh:

    First ever image link from pbase, so i'll give myself and (anybody else) one free blow out:laugh:

    Last time ever i promise;)
     
  18. RobertP

    RobertP
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    Is it just my eyes or does that picture look a bit rotated CW? There is something about the right hand end of the floodlit building that just does not quite look right.
     
  19. seany

    seany
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    Nah it's not rotated, i'd be drinking all day:laugh:


    It's that or Edinburgh castle has subsidence:laugh:
     
  20. seany

    seany
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    Nothing that great about this photo just a demo of how the camera handles high iso's. Shutter speed, was a bit too slow ( specially as i was half cut :laugh: ) but i wanted just try it with the lens stopped down (f 5.6)


    [​IMG]
     
  21. RobertP

    RobertP
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    I still think it is rotated...

    edit: and so is the second one :)

    try these...
     

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  22. seany

    seany
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    I've not actually rotated them in ps or anything, simply a drunken hand at work:laugh:

    They look a bit rotated to the left now:laugh:

    I need a tripod:laugh:
     
  23. RobertP

    RobertP
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    Couldn't have been that drunk taking a vertical in the middle of the image one needed 2 degrees ccw and the other 1.5 deg. same way
     
  24. seany

    seany
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    I'm missing something Robert, or you're basically calling me a liar, which is well out of order. If i'm reading that wrong then i'm sorry.

    Here's the full unsharpend images, downlaod them and check the exifs, they've not been through ps or anything else, they're still tilted to the right .. it has nothing to do with ps or anything else

    http://i.pbase.com/v3/87/571287/1/46898098.IMG_8280.JPG

    http://i.pbase.com/v3/87/571287/1/46898206.IMG_8267.JPG


    Sorry columbo, you've note solved this one.

    You're edits look tilted to the left now Robert when ik look at them.

    I don't mean to be funny or anything mate, but you're barking up the wrong tree.
     
  25. RobertP

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    Sean, I'm an engineer so 2 degrees means something to me. Should have realised not everyone would read it the same. 2 degrees is a very small amount. So I see a very small rotation clockwise in your images. A bit like looking at a picture frame on a wall - I see it is slightly **ssed no one else notices.

    Does not mean I'm always right. With your images I just took a vertical line near the centre of the image and compared it to a vertical something in the scene (drain pipe). By rotating the first picture -2 degrees the middle becomes vertical.

    The rotation is from how the camera was held - not editing.

    You were there - if its how you saw it then fine - end of story. No criticism intended .... just saying how it looks to me.
     
  26. seany

    seany
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    I'm sorry Robert , i thought you meant it was rotated in ps, i mean there would be no sense or point in me hiding that fact if i did. I was there mate, but it was only a holiday shot.

    I can't really explain why they're like that, was not intended that's for sure . I was drunk, every night by that time:laugh: But then i take my camera out with me in town as i'm in to city life shot's (bars ect) used to being drunk with a camera but it's not a good idea really

    Again i'm not being funny at all Robert;)
     
  27. RobertP

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    No problem. Misunderstandings happen.

    I should have made it clearer what I meant by rotation.

    An 'engineers eye' can be a handicap too - I often think I don't understand the 'art' in things because I'm trying too hard to make technical sense of it :D
     
  28. Johndm

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    I have a tilt problem.....and I've even given up the booze.. :D

    Unless I really concentrate hard, my pics in general are all tilted CCW by 0.5 to 2.0 deg.

    Its not always just a matter of lining up on one vertical.
    With wider angle shots, converging parallels must be taken into account, so if the subject is off centre, the verticals ain't if you get my drift.

    Anet are well hot on ground pics, or those with a horizon. Shots of an aircraft taken wide angle in a museum are a f****** nightmare.

    I've had rejects that needed just 0.1 deg rotation to pass, and recently there was a poor bloke who uploaded several times, swinging his pic back and forth, he eventually emailed the screeners, who decided it was ONE PIXEL out of true......

    Hey...what's a few microns between friends eh, better get out the 'ol Mitutoyo...check all our gear is calibrated, and run a R&R study....maybe CMM it....
    Robert...you should know what I mean eh?... :hiya:
    Seany...Engineers talk.. :hiya:
     
  29. seany

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    How's this for tilted:laugh:

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Johndm

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    Nope....needs 0.6 deg CCW or left rotation.....roughly.. :rotfl: :rotfl:
     

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