I'm Lost, LCD LED, QLED, OLED etc

Dawz84

Novice Member
Do you have fibre internet capable of UHD streaming? Yes
Will you be buying and using an UHD Blu-Ray player? No
Netflix? Yes 4K package
Amazon? Yes
Apple TV? No
Catch up TV? Yes
HDR games consoles? Maybe
PC usage? No
DVDs? No
FHD Blu-Rays? No
Sky, BT or Virgin? UHD or HD? Sky, HD. Mainly Watch Netflix though.
  • SD vs HD vs UHD use percentage? eg 20% 60% 20%. 80% Netflix use, so whatever's 4k on that.
  • Movies, sport, console games, PC use in percentage? eg 40% 40% 20%
  • How close can you view the TV? 7 Feet ish
  • Do you need to view the TV from the side or only straight on? Yes, need a good viewing angle... but I have a very early LCD 1080p that i have no issue with. So perhaps my standards are low?
  • What conditions do you view in? During the day? At night with lights on? In the dark? Im not south facing and have blinds but never sit in the dark, I have lamps, always on at night.
  • What TV are you currently using and what are expecting to see upgrading to a new TV? As mentioned an old 42" LCD 1080p Samsung from around 2009. Working perfectly fine. Went to my brothers house recently, and we put some stuff on Netflix for my daughter. The same media I use, I was shocked at how good it looked on his TV compared to mine. Made me realise it was time for an Upgrade. He has some Sony 4k HDR LCD LED. I've come to the realisation that anything will probably look better than mine. :D

  • Motion - Are you interested in being able to use motion enhancements on your TV to reduce judder and/or reduce motion blur? Both frame interpolation and frame insertion let you do this, read more about it here. They both have their upsides and downsides, so read carefully.
I think this motion judder thing is a big YES. My neighbor upgraded his TV in the last couple of years. And I've commented and noticed many of a time what seems to be like a slow frame rate, seems to get worse when there a lot happening on the screen or something fast. I wondered if it was the media source, but i think I've noticed it even on 4k sources. Which leads me to believe it must be the screen. I've never noticed this on my old 1080p screen.

Please rearrange the following PQ attributes, in descending importance: I'm not sure I'm really bothered about any of these things because obviously its all going to be 10 times better than what I currently got.

Blacks
SDR Brightness
SDR Colour Saturation
SDR Colour Accuracy
HDR Brightness
HDR Colour Accuracy
HDR Colour Saturation
Local dimming
How accurate the picture is out of the box (without having to change any settings)

Now for bugs, tell us your possible pet hates related to TVs, in descending order:

Things related to FPS, juddering is annoying for me. Like i mentioned, never noticed it on my old TV, i'd hate to get it on a update.

Motion Blur
Motion Judder
Motion stutter
Banding

Now which is most important to you?

Price, Wide Viewing angles and Apps. Would be nice to be able to get Netflix and amazon. SkyQ doesn't allow amazon. The idea of HDR sounds nice, is there much content on netflix that would exploit this?

My budgets around £500 but I could push up or buy second hand. I plan to keep this another 5+ years at-least provided it don't brake.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Your want of wide viewing angles means you need an LCD with an IPS type panel. The LG SK8500 and Panasonic FX750 are priced well right now and will give you the best picture quality for the price.

The Samsung you linked is somewhat unknown, it could come with a panel that has narrow viewing angles which may not be suited for your uses. It also doesn't use a 120hz panel which means you won't be able to eliminate judder.

Best option would be this currently; Panasonic 49FX750B 49 Inch 4K Ultra HD TV | Costco UK

Next best option would be the LG SK8500, which is more suited for Netflix with dolby vision support.

If you can go for a 55" or larger, even better.
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
I'm torn if the viewing angle is even an issue, especially if its a limiting factors that could improve other areas. Here's a image I've made quickly to show, my room layout, not to scale but extremely close.

So my TV is in the right corner, and the sofa on the left and bottom of the image being the most important. The seat in the bay would be nice but less of a issue. Would these be accute angles or pretty much standard viewing.

Obviously the TV is usually angled between the two Sofa's... i'm also planning to wall mount in the future on the chimney breast.

 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Its not exact but this is a quick calculation of the max angle where you start to notice loss in image quality with LCDs:


You will not get acceptable viewing angles from an LCD on the left sofa at all with an LCD TV, only a OLED will give you that (or older plasma). The right seat you may well get away with an IPS type panel on an LCD TV.

Of course this assumes you angle the TV more to the left (I have tried to depict this with the black line showing the angle.

So really it is up to you how important that left seating position is. A TV with an IPS panel and it will look a lot better than a TV with a VA panel there, but it will still not be perfect. Ideally you want an OLED.

To use the examples from rtings.com for viewing angles:
Viewing Angle of TVs

Baseline VA panel TV from the front:


At 30 degree angle (where we start to see image degradation) on a VA type panel:

At a tighter (around 60 degree, left hand sofa territory):


IPS same circumstances:

30 degree:

60 degree:


So whilst you can still see at the widest angle the IPS TV looks different from head on, its not as drastic as the VA panel.

Certainly don't consider a VA type panel if you want a wide viewing angle and really, an OLED is needed for near perfect viewing angles in your situation.
 

Attachments

Dawz84

Novice Member
Wow thats brilliant... the 60 degree angle is roughly what i get on the left hand sofa. My current TV swivels on its base and its roughly that. I'd have to angle the new TV like that I suppose.

And I see what your saying, IPS would be far better by the looks of things.

Even if I was to chimney mount it... looks like IPS would be needed or OLED

Now wondering if OLED will be best... or am I not bothered all the guest wont be able to watch the boxing well :D

BTW is there a easy way for me to know if a TV has a IPS panel... other than looking at the viewing angle in real life :D

Thanks for the help.
 
Last edited:

Andrew1472

Distinguished Member
Just to add to the excellent advice by @Dodgexander, be aware that OLED carries the risk of screen burn. News channels breaking news bar burn is well documented. Real Life OLED Burn-In Test on 6 TVs
They are the best overall despite that. If you don’t watch much stuff with static content on screen it won’t be an issue for you.
In short, any LG, be it LED LCD or OLED, that has Trumotion for getting rid of that judder you don’t like should suit you very well.
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
Thats a worry, my wife and child leaving the TV on and watching the same kids channels could be a issue... Which i guess goes back to the IPS Panel.

Do QLED have bad viewing angles? or on par with the IPS?
 

zeppelino

Distinguished Member
Thats a worry, my wife and child leaving the TV on and watching the same kids channels could be a issue... Which i guess goes back to the IPS Panel.

Do QLED have bad viewing angles? or on par with the IPS?
QLEDs have poor viewing angles. And I don’t think there’s any within budget.
 

Andrew1472

Distinguished Member
Thats a worry, my wife and child leaving the TV on and watching the same kids channels could be a issue... Which i guess goes back to the IPS Panel.

Do QLED have bad viewing angles? or on par with the IPS?
Yeah, I would be nervous about Kids programmes.
To answer your earlier question, all LG LCDs have IPS panels. Other manufacturers have a confusing mix of VA or IPS on different models, so research is needed.
IPS panels only real problem is poor black levels, they look grey, but it’s only a problem in dimly lit rooms. If you have lights on all the time you won’t even realise.
Compare a few LGs with other makes in Currys or somewhere to be sure you agree with what we are telling you though.
 

zeppelino

Distinguished Member
Yeah, I would be nervous about Kids programmes.
To answer your earlier question, all LG LCDs have IPS panels. Other manufacturers have a confusing mix of VA or IPS on different models, so research is needed.
IPS panels only real problem is poor black levels, they look grey, but it’s only a problem in dimly lit rooms. If you have lights on all the time you won’t even realise.
Compare a few LGs with other makes in Currys or somewhere to be sure you agree with what we are telling you though.
To add to the confusion, LG use va in their 50” models
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
So bigger than 50 is safe for LG?

And my budget could go up... I'm was just being cheap when I saw those 4-500£ samsungs. Why pay more if the only difference is its a little blacker etc. Was my original thought.
 

zeppelino

Distinguished Member
So bigger than 50 is safe for LG?

And my budget could go up... I'm was just being cheap when I saw those 4-500£ samsungs. Why pay more if the only difference is its a little blacker etc. Was my original thought.
Any besides the 50” models. So 49” is fine, 55” etc.

As already mentioned, Panasonic FX models should suffice too.
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
Excellent, heading to curry as we speak, hopefully can witness these viewing angle issues etc

I'll see if I can find a panosonic.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
There is no sure way to tell by looking TVs but you can try the steps here: Determining the panel type of a TV.

But we generally have a good idea which models come with which panel type at different sizes. Samsung are somewhat the exception to this rule as they are more likely to use a mix of both VA type and IPS in their lower range models.

I think having local dimming that works well on a TV is quite important if you want the best from an IPS type panel so I'd recommend the LG SK8500 at 55" which seems to be priced most reasonably. Its available for £800 which is a £200 saving compared to the LG B8 OLED.

Of course an OLED is going to be leaps and bounds ahead of the TV for overall quality, but you should only consider one if you don't think you will be effected by burn in.
OLED Burn In Risk

You indicated you never view in the dark and usually have lamps on so I don't think you are losing much not going with an OLED/VA type LCD in this instance. The gains there are mostly for dark/pitch black cinema viewing.
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
Thanks dodge, more food for thought.

Well I just got back from currys and I'm going to throw a spanner in the works. I don't think viewing angle matters much at all. Looking at all the screens at acuter angles then I have at home I was more than happy with the viewing quality for guests.

So forget I mentioned that. Surprisingly the Panasonics fx range too were noticeably darker than the rest. Curry's was playing the same media through all the screens so was easy too compare... I only wonder if the panosonics were miss configured/brightness down?

As you said the OLEDs are far superior at the angles... But what did surprise me was a Samsung qled and oled next to each other... The qled looked better!? Perhaps due too the lighting in currys? Also the qled viewing angle was fine? Very similar in fact, but I didn't go to extremes. Hard to tell because the other oleds had dedicated media playing on them the rest of the shop didn't have.

Anyway I suppose angle means nothing now for me.

So I took photos of tv that I thought looked better and I was hoping you could shed some light, or perhaps recommend other screens now were worked out I don't care about viewing angle. I'll post them up later after I've eaten.

Thanks for the help. Sorry I've completely flipped on what matters haha.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Agreed, Hisense U7A would be the goto option, it carries most of the spec of the Samsung NU8000 for less.

Regarding store setups, some things are harder to judge than others. I wouldn't judge TVs too much just because they won't be set up the same way when you get them home.

Its typical for the Samsung QLEDs to look very good, they get very bright in their shop mode and make other TVs look dim by comparison. Even when the Panasonic FX750 is about 3x brighter than most lcds of old and even more so compared to old Plasma's.

But really, the way they have things setup, the picture settings being wrong, the lighting in the shop, the demo material set to compliment each TV doesn't make the best grounds for judgement.

Its a shame because it would be a much more enjoyable experience to be able to demo TVs like people often can do with audio equipment, with their own real life content showing and with every TV setup correct looking how you will have it at home.
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
I was thinking that in regards to show rooms. I'm going to pay a visit to John lewis, there usually quite good for such things.

I've started researching Hisense since you have both recommended, to be honest i was ignoring due too brand loyalty/snobbishness.

As a result I've noticed they are about to release a new line of products for 2019 in may. One is a QLed for £500ish among others. It sounds like it would be a good idea to hold out a month? One for the new products and two for further possible discounts on older products.

Hisense H9F (available in 55 and 65-inch models): A more reasonably-priced version of the above, though only with 150 dimming zones and 1,000 nits peak brightness. The H9F is a 4K UHD set costing $699 (around £525 / AU$979) and $749 (around £656 / AU$1,049) respectively for the 55 and 65-inch models. Comes with Dolby Vision and launches this coming May.
 

zeppelino

Distinguished Member
I wouldn’t be waiting for a £500 QLED from Hisense. And converted prices should be taken with a pinch of salt.
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
You think the QLED will be crap then? worth holding out for price drops? or will they have already drops in anticipation of the new products?

Yes Stoke/Hanley isnt far from me, I'll give richer sounds a go. John Lewis is further in Birmingham.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Yeah don't worry so much about the marketing material, they often will market TVs that they don't even release here. QLED itself is nothing fantastic, its just a way of an LCD TV to display a wider colour gamut. Brings no benefits to SDR at all and only slight gains in HDR colour. There are much more important factors behind a TV, especially with HDR performance.

HDR is not going to be good on a TV this cheap, regardless of whether its a QLED or not.

Actually, I think the U7A is also a QLED model, it just not marketed as one. Hisense, like Samsung use that to describe their method of displaying more colours with HDR.
 

Dawz84

Novice Member
Thanks, any of these new models an update on the U7A?

You both seem very convinced on the U7A. I'm keen to see one now.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Philips OLED+935 impressions, Denon AVC110 Review, Film Reviews, News and More...

Latest News

Samsung updates and expands access to Samsung TV Plus
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Disney+ UK introduces GroupWatch co-viewing feature
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
What's new on Netflix UK for November 2020
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Harman Kardon launches Citation Amp
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 21st October 2020
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Top Bottom