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I'm absolutely gutted

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by mafioso, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. mafioso

    mafioso
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    Just finshed setting up my Hitachi C42PD3000 which I received this evening from John Lewis and have noticed a dead pixel (dark red spec) in the top centre of the screen. I can't bl**dy believe it! Now I know its there my eyes are always drawn towards it.

    After 12 months of finally coming to a decision this happens. Ready past threads, I don't think I can get it replaced as I think Hitachi allows 4 dead pixels before it is considered faulty. But as I have had it less than 7 days (in fact less than 7 hours!!!) I should be able to send it back for a refund at least.

    What should I do? Dead pixels seem to be fairly common in Plasmas so it is down to chance wheter you get a plasma which is free of them or not. But surely this screen should have been checked before it left the factory! I've only had the thing on 30 minutes before I noticed it.
     
  2. chrise

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    What rotten luck. Do talk to John Lewis about the problem as rather than lose your business they might exchange the screen as goodwill.
     
  3. Elvis

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    Do JL give you 28 days to return the set if you're not happy (which presumably you are not)?
     
  4. Erpland

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    What happens to all the Plasmas and LCD's that get taken back for dead pixels?
    It seems a premium is being paid for a flakey technology, surely they could sell the problem screens as B grades to be used in situations where a dead pixel or two is unnoticed, then they can still make profit and bring down prices eventually.
    I guess the manufactures dont need to be as open and honest with the situation whilst these screens are still a 'hot' product.
     
  5. Mr.D

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    You are paying a premium for plasmas and LCDs ( and dlps) to compensate for the poor manufacturing yield : a lot of the panels are rejected at the manufacturing stage. The manufacturers have to cover the cost of these rejected panels so you are not just paying for your panel but also one of the others that got skipped.

    CRTs are still comparatively expensive given the amount of time they have been around because they are fairly labour intensive products and fairly complex pieces of kit. ( lots of components) again they have a reasonably high failure rate but the manufacture is so large scale for CRT displays they can afford to be cheaper than the digital panels.
     
  6. mafioso

    mafioso
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    Still haven't spoken to JL yet - AV dept in Watford constantly engaged.

    But I have 3 choices:

    1) Try and get a replacement tv
    2) Get a full refund(within 28 day period)
    3) Live with it

    I don't think I can go with choice 3, simply cos the tv is so new (direct from the factory) it shouldn't have this problem

    My fall back is the 28 day refund which I should get no matter what for simply being disatisfied with the product

    Replacement is my preferred choice though, but at the same time I think I my chances of getting a result is small if Hitachi's dead pixel policy is true (4 or more deemed faulty).
    This would means Hitachi won't compensate JL if they tried to return the tv- unless of course JL resell this to some other poor unsuspecting punter.

    Even if I am allowed a replacement tv I doubt whether I will get one now before Xmas. So whether I get a refund or a replacement I will most likely keep this tv for the Xmas period at least so I can enjoy some plasma viewing.

    I'll let you know how I get on today once I get through to them.
     
  7. SimonO

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    I bought a TV from JL Watford which had bad geometry and purity problems... They replaced it and the second was no better, so they offered my money back as they couldn't guarantee a third would be any better than the first two...

    If your not happy then get it replaced, don't worry about the manufacturers dead pixel limit, it's bulls*%t... You can't have levels of faultiness, it either works or it doesn't..!

    This issue really winds me up..! You're paying a lot of money...

    Anyway you haven't bought it from Hitachi, you've bought it from JL..! Did they make you aware of the potential problem before you bought it..! I bet that Hitachi doesn't put their pixel disclaimer on the box... It's probably in the manual which you can only read once you have opened the box..!

    I'm about to buy a plasma so I'll be interested to hear how you get on...

    Good luck, and don't take no for an answer..!
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    If you can get JL to exchange it, (They probably will) Hitachi will sell it as a 'b-grade' at some point. DOA pixels have been known to come to life again, don't give up on it till it's back in the box and on the van.
     
  9. Erpland

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    I'd be tempted to be firm, turn up at JL with it and ask for a full refund, then order another on the understanding it to be setup and inspected by you before you take it away.
    If you ask for a direct replacement you could end up going round in circles or being fobbed off.
    Hassle and worry, I feel for you either way.
     
  10. Elvis

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    'Turn up at JL with it' Do you know how much these things weigh?

    So far JL seem to be acquitting themselves quite well when it come to customer service, I'd certainly recommend trying for a replacement. I'm sure they will be as accomodating as they can.
     
  11. mafioso

    mafioso
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    Thanks for all the advice guys.

    Do you think I should go and speak to the guys at John Lewis about this problem in person or over the phone. Or does it matter
     
  12. Erpland

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    Im not doubting JL's service in this case, you should be ok, in the old days of CRT I would get mate to help lift it in the car, firmness = results, been shat on too many times by the likes of Currys and Sony :mad:
    It looks like there is more to take into consideration when buying a Plasma, especially if they really are too heavy to do anything with once they are installed.
    Hope it works out for you, will be a good advert for John Lewis if it does.
    I guess if they fob you off you could print off this thread
    :) in that case just give them a ring!
     
  13. Elvis

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    Call them first, what have you got to lose? If you don't get very far then you could go in person, but they'll be getting busy this close to christmas.

    It might be a good idea to inform them of the situation now, rather than waiting until after the new year, they are unlikely to be able to do anything before christmas anyway but at least the issue will be logged.

    Other people on this forum have had success getting JL to replace their screens (admittedly for different problems) so I'm sure they will be understanding
     
  14. Erpland

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    mafioso

    phone them starting with the words
    "I'm calling to arrange a full refund of a product delivered to me on xxx"
    include
    "it has a very annoying red dot on the screen, which is an obvious fault"

    when they come over all helpful and solve the matter you'll feel like a bit of a runt, but at least your not letting yourself get shat on like Currys and Sony do.
     
  15. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
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    My advice would be to go into the store with your faulty screen and, once you have the attention of a sales advisor, put your fingers in your ears and say 'refund' over and over until he/she nods. After a couple hours they always give in (or section you).
     
  16. mafioso

    mafioso
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    Guys,

    finally got in touch with Simon @ JL Watford. Conversation was brief and basically he's a arranging service guy to check out the problem.

    I presume JL need to do this as a matter of course to verify that that what I am say is in fact the case and that there is a dead pixel. Once the service engineer has verifyed the dead pixel I will then demand a replacement or otherwise a refund irrespective if the engineer recommends that this is within manufacturers tolerance
     
  17. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
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    Yes, be polite but firm. If you want a refund, they have to give you one. It's the law.
     
  18. MAW

    MAW
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    The 4 pixel policy is not a hard and fast rule in any case, which is worth throwing into a discussion with JL, it depends on what colour it's stck on, and where it is. Yours is obviously in a highly intrusive position, I mean if it was 3 pixels in from the bottom left corner it might not be such an issue, especially if it was green and you were a footy fan. Yours is right in your face, a major arguing point if pixel policy is brought up. Don't bother discussing with the engineer if you can avoid it, go straight to the organ grinder, not the monkey.
     
  19. mafioso

    mafioso
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    Thanks for advice MAW yuo're absolutetly right with your observations, particularly as mine is red in nature and in the upper centre of the screen. I will definitely use this argument about obtrusive positioning when demanding a replacement.

    As for the engineer, he will be used just a verification tool for me and JL and nothing else. I don't think I can argue for replacement until an approved engineer has checked it over on behalf of JL and diagnosed the problem.

    If I don't allow the engineer to check it, then I guess my options are limited. All I can demand then is a full refund based on their 28 day return and refund policy. OR maybe I could ask for a 20% discount for the imperfection -bringing the cost down to £2500!!! If they agree to that option I may be able to put up with this small inconvience. What do you think?----

    Anyway, I have nothing to lose so we shall see how it goes. At least I have raised the problem with them within 24 hours of delivery (just to make the point that the pixel was DOA) and now its down to them. I don't think an engineer will come before Xmas, before the New Year, maybe. I won't go mad chasing them for a date, as I'd like to have a plasma for the Xmas period, but if I don't hear anything by Tuesday I will give them a call for an update.

    Cheers
     
  20. colincook5

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    I had this problem with my Panasonic LCD.This was a green pixel that appeared soon after i bought it but thankfully it just dissapeared.Yours may do the same.
    Good luck.
     
  21. SimonO

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    Guys it's faulty - full stop, no discussion... The worst you'll be offered by JL is your money back, but I'd be amazed if they don't replace it... Do you really think Hitatchi will argue with JL, think of the business they would lose...

    You're the customer, and it's you're hard earned cash - IT'S FAULTY...
     
  22. Erpland

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    what if the engineer says "what red dot?"
    (similar thing happened to me with currys and sony)
     
  23. mafioso

    mafioso
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    Don't worry Erpland, the way the dead pixel is positioned I'll definitely make sure the engineer sees it. Even if I have to set the tv to screen wipe mode (complete white background) where you cannot fail but notice it!). I won't be taking any cr*p for anyone one the engineer has been and gone. Either replacement, refund or possibly a further 20% discount( and then hope the pixel comes back to life in the future, which I doubt it will) are the only considerations. I'm definitley not paying £3k for this!
     
  24. Jackass

    Jackass
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    Thats the spirit, sock it to em! its your rights and if they get shirty send in the heavy's or get back to us here on the forums and i'll arrange the transit van and bats. :lesson: :D
     
  25. TP2K

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    Good luck with this; manufacturer's are swines over the dead-pixel issue.

    I bought a £650 TFT from Sony which had about 4 pixels DOA and no matter of screaming or shouting would get a replacement/refund. Even Sony's UK MD called me up to say that the best they would offer was a refurb model, but again, that came with no guarantee of no dead pixels - so I decided to live with it. :mad:

    TBH, with my TFT I now don't really notice them, though that isn't the issue of course.

    Secondly, at the beginning of this year I bought an LG plasma which also had a dead pixel on arrival; only visible as a bright blue pixel on certain blue images, but bang in the middle of the panel. The retailer (Powerhouse) wouldn't take it back, and LG claimed it was not faulty, so I was stuck with it.

    Thankfully I got the panel returned using the flicker issue that the LG's suffer from and now have a fully functional (touch wood) Hitachi! But I know it's so damn annoying and can be a real battle.

    Perhaps with JL you will have more luck as they are the top of the game in CS fields, but if the manufacturer claims something is within tolerance levels, and therefore not faulty, it would be JL who are saddled with the set as Hitachi would not accept it back from them in my experience.

    Good luck.
     
  26. Erpland

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    What would happen if nobody bought Plasma's LCD's because of these issues?
    Mfrs have us by the *!* whilst demand is so high for this tech.
     
  27. mafioso

    mafioso
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    TP2K,
    I'm astonished at the way you were treated. Surely, Sony had at least a statutory refund and return policy (at least 7 days, but generally 14-28 days) no qualms policy if you are disatisfied with your product. I would have threatened them with with trading standards and then Watchdog if all else failed. If you bought with Barclaycard, as I did, even better, let them sort it out for you as they become jointly liable if you are not satisfied and they offer this service.

    Don't let retailers or mfrs get the better of you. Your the customer and Your always right in the eyes of the reytailer (even when you're not) is my train of thought
     
  28. kbgnat

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    Hey, sorry to hear about your misfortunes... I am about to embark on 2 plasma screens, and all this talk is starting to worry me. I already have 5 lcd screens (notebooks and computers) and only one has dead pixels, but even at that, it really does bug you - so I totally understand how you feel.

    anyway, I was watching a AV tv programme in Hong Kong a few months back and they were talking about plasma screen. They raised the point about dead pixels, and what they suggested was to bring with you when buying a new plasma screen a CD that plays different colours for lengths of times. That way you can check to see if there are any dead pixels, as you may already know, some dead pixels only appear in certain colours. Has anyone else seen this before or heard about it?

    I know it is difficult, but when it is time for myself to buy the plasma screens, I will get the shop where I am buying it from to setup the screen I am going to purchase up instore or at home and give it a thorough test before I will accept it.

    Anyway, just like to say good luck with your screen and I hope you get the result you want.

    Jack

    P.S. does anyone know were I can get hold or dowload and burn to CD something like what I have just mentioned? I have tried searching but with no luck. Thanks
     
  29. TP2K

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    At the time (approx 2 years ago), the Sony issue was rejected by Sony as being faulty and I have to say that I was unaware of the 7 day RTB policy on goods. Needless to say once I was aware of it, the 7 days had elapsed! :mad:

    Anyhoo, it was purchased via Barclaycard and I duly completed all the paperwork required, and sat back thinking it would get sorted no problem. About three weeks later I had a letter from Barclays saying they could not pursue my claim since the supply had met all the criteria, the product was not faulty as it met the dead-pixel spec, and so I was I was stuck with the Sony TFT.

    Whether right or wrong, ultimately it didn't do Sony any favours as previously I was an avid fan and if a product was available under the Sony manufacturing brand, I would buy it. After the "cheap laser" issue with their early DVD players (of which I was also a victim!) and this CS debacle, to this day I have not bought a Sony product in protest of their complete lack of loyalty to customers who *were* loyal to the brand. Stuff 'em.
     
  30. Erpland

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    Same here mate, had a faulty sony 25" crt TV, I could see the same fault on the same models in the showrooms, wasnt aware of the 7 day policy either, even wrote to Sony HQ but no joy.
    Did my best to avoid sony out of principle over the years, did end up with a clock radio and camcorder by them, but thats just a small percentage of electronic gear Ive bought for myself and others that could have likely been Sony products.
     

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