I'm about 10 steps into the Vinyl minefield.

FootHealer

Active Member
I would do everything through ebay and not communicate with the guy at all..

If you return the speakers to him privately, he might ask you to 'return' them again.. :)
Agreed. Contact Ebay to tell them the speakers have arrived and ask what you should do next. Do not return them without further advice from Ebay. He could scam you, saying they arrived back damaged or not at all. Some people have even suggested that the returned item was a damaged substitute. Be careful. This guy sounds dodgy. Message Ebay and follow their advice.

I wouldn't worry about the defamation and solicitor threats. The guy is talking non-sense and just trying to intimidate you.
 

Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
Agreed sounds very dodgy, ignore is emails put everything through eBay. If you’ve had a refund I’d leave to eBay to contact you regards the collection. Remember he told you a few weeks back he wasn’t communicating with you he can’t start up comms because it suits him.

As one of the lads above alluded to I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to pull a “he didn’t return the speakers” line so if and when they are collected I’d get as much evidence photos of the couriers van etc etc as I could. At that stage I would emai ebay on basis of here are the speakers leaving my place they are now the responsibility of the courier my input is closed etc etc
 

Timmy C

Distinguished Member
Agreed sounds very dodgy, ignore is emails put everything through eBay. If you’ve had a refund I’d leave to eBay to contact you regards the collection. Remember he told you a few weeks back he wasn’t communicating with you he can’t start up comms because it suits him.

As one of the lads above alluded to I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to pull a “he didn’t return the speakers” line so if and when they are collected I’d get as much evidence photos of the couriers van etc etc as I could. At that stage I would emai ebay on basis of here are the speakers leaving my place they are now the responsibility of the courier my input is closed etc etc

I think the point is the OP wants to keep the speakers and wants to pay the original agreed price, which at least avoids the issue of getting scammed after return. The important thing is to ensure the new payment is made through ebay, as if he gets his money back privately and then proves to ebay the speakers were received, he may end up with ebay stepping in and making a new payment at the buyers expense and he doesn't sound like the sort of chap to voluntarily pay it back!
 

FootHealer

Active Member
I've had a look through the Ebay Selling Policy, including the section about reasons a seller can cancel, but it doesn't appear that they mention anything about sellers cancelling after items are dispatched. It does say this, however:

"Sellers are obligated to complete a sale with a buyer. However, we understand that there may be certain circumstances in which orders need to be cancelled."

The reasons for cancellation include the item being damaged, missing, incorrectly listed, etc. This is presumably done before an item is dispatched.

Personally, I believe Ebay needs to step in and sort this mess out. The seller listed an item for sale, you paid the agreed price, he was able to send the item, it arrived, you are happy with it. He is obligated to complete the sale. Issuing a refund was a stupid mistake on his part. He will have to send you an invoice for the item.

You may well be able to keep the speakers. I would keep them aside for now, speak only to Ebay, explain you received your item and are happy with it. If the payment has been refunded, then the seller can send you an invoice. There really isnt any issue, other than his narcassist ego felt insulted and challenged.

Good luck, my friend.
 

Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
Agreed although with this seller Id be dubious towards the quality of what I’ve actually received. Personally I’d be taking my cash back and leaving it up to him to arrange collection, if the OP keeps the speakers and say in a month or so develops a problem I can’t see the seller being willing to entertain him !
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Agreed although with this seller Id be dubious towards the quality of what I’ve actually received. Personally I’d be taking my cash back and leaving it up to him to arrange collection, if the OP keeps the speakers and say in a month or so develops a problem I can’t see the seller being willing to entertain him !
It's a difficult decision to make. If the serial number of the item is visible in the listing photographs, I would take a photo of this and send it back. He cannot claim it has been cookoo swapped for a duff speaker if you can prove the serial number. Personally, without evidemce of a serial number, I would not trust this guy, and if the speakers seem okay, I'd stick with them. If you can prove the serial number, I'd let him take them back. He may learn his lesson if it hits him in the wallet. He's acting like a fool. Paying out money for deliveries and collections just because he felt insulted. Its sad to see a grown man behave this way.
 

Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
@FootHealer - Bet you didn’t cause this level of grief when you sold your speakers 🤣
 

FootHealer

Active Member
@FootHealer - Bet you didn’t cause this level of grief when you sold your speakers 🤣
No, not at all. Really feel for the OP. A little bit of decency goes a long way. This is made all the more stark when we hear about something like this. The OP seems to be handling this well, with dignity, firmness and a cool head. I'm sure it'll work out in his favour.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I am really sorry you went trough all this problems for pair of speakers. There’s lot more grief in the world then selling speakers on eBay. Still I of course understand you are frustrated. I would too. Most people would.

The knock I wouldn’t worry about. As long the knock don’t ruin the sound, unlikely it we’ll. Perhaps it’s bit annoying cosmetic wise. Still you’ll get used to it.

But may I ask did the seller mention the knock on the cabinets of the speakers on eBay?

Amplifier wise I’d say you well hear difference. Still since the ordeal has been nightmare I’d wait until everything settles down.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Speaking of the knock/dent you can perhaps fix it yourself. Many solutions online how you proceed. Perhaps some paint etc can help.
 

Khankat

Well-known Member
As I suggested in an earlier post and as others have also said, do everything through eBay. And if you haven't already, photograph the speakers, paying particular attention to any damage not included in the sale description. Good luck.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
If the speakers were damaged on arrival, and not shown in the listing photographs or mentioned in the description, you have grounds to start a return via Ebay.
 

ITFLmojo

Standard Member
Hi guys.

Thanks so much for your advice. I had asked him for his bank details to do a transfer but I'll message him back and tell him to send me an invoice through Ebay. I'm also going to let Ebay know exactly what's going on.
I had a look at his other listings and he's still got floor standing speakers for sale but he's changed the P&P from £18 to £20! I'm sure I won't be the last to feel his wrath.
I'm taking his threats with a pinch of salt. I feel like I've accomodated him enough with super erratic behaviour. It's up to him now to let me know if he wants his money back or not.
I do want to keep the speakers and the knock is on the lower back corner of the speaker so I can't see it and I don't think it affects the performance so I'm happy enough.
These are the messages since:

Him:
You really think the technicality that I reduced the from the price entitles you to class it that you paid postage don't you.

My family run a firm of solicitors in Scotland - if you want to argue all of that against a claim for damages go right ahead.

Its been refunded so make sure you do not take receipt & they are return to sender. If you do anything whatsoever to defame from this point you'll get a solicitors letter.

Me:
Morning Cameron.
I haven't had a refund so if the speakers turn up (which I'm pretty sure now that they won't) I'll be keeping them. And without a tracking number I can't garauntee I'll be in to "turn them away" so they'll go next door. So, I'd appreciate a tracking number. The case with ebay will remain open until I either get my speakers or until my £200 gets refunded.
I hope that you're on really good terms with your family of solicitors because when they see these messages they might not be too pleased that you're wasting their time. As for defaming, if you deal and talk to people the way you've dealt with me I'd say the only person damaging your reputation is you and you alone.

I just want to reiterate that the case will remain open until this whole debacle is resolved.

Him:
Hi. I'm new to all of this

Outright deception from your first words.

Right now the status is stolen.

Me:
Cameron, why refund me after you've sent the speakers? Absolute madness.
As soon as the refund has cleared into my bank account I'll get back in touch to get your money back to you for the second time.

Him:
NO - matters moved to a state where by your actions you have taken these without permission. It was perfectly clear that you were not to take possession & had no reason to do so as an official status of refunded is all that was required.

Claiming the money had to be in your bank account is meaningless. The status by all legal definition is that your funds were back with Ebay you had no right to the item. You had several communications from the owner stating that the item was not to be taken possession of but you still did it. Taking things without the owners permission is Theft.

Me:
Cameron.
The refund has cleared, so can you let me know how you want me to send you the money.
Thanks.

And just for info, one of the corners on the bottom of one of the speakers has had an obvious knock. I'll attach photos for you. The speakers were indeed really well packaged so I can only assume it happened at your end. I don't want any money off, I just wanted to make you aware so you could maybe be more descriptive in your future listings. I also noticed that the P&P on some of your other speakers you have for sale are priced at £20. Can I assume the courier companies have dropped their prices?

Anyway, let me know how you'd like your money.
Thanks.
Matt.

Him:
NO it didn't happen at this end

Me:
Whatever, I'm past caring. Send me your bank details and I'll transfer you the money. If you don't I'll assume you don't want it. In which case, thanks for the gift.
Don't let your misguided pride get in the way of what should have been an easy sale.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Hi guys.

Thanks so much for your advice. I had asked him for his bank details to do a transfer but I'll message him back and tell him to send me an invoice through Ebay. I'm also going to let Ebay know exactly what's going on.
I had a look at his other listings and he's still got floor standing speakers for sale but he's changed the P&P from £18 to £20! I'm sure I won't be the last to feel his wrath.
I'm taking his threats with a pinch of salt. I feel like I've accomodated him enough with super erratic behaviour. It's up to him now to let me know if he wants his money back or not.
I do want to keep the speakers and the knock is on the lower back corner of the speaker so I can't see it and I don't think it affects the performance so I'm happy enough.
These are the messages since:

Him:
You really think the technicality that I reduced the from the price entitles you to class it that you paid postage don't you.

My family run a firm of solicitors in Scotland - if you want to argue all of that against a claim for damages go right ahead.

Its been refunded so make sure you do not take receipt & they are return to sender. If you do anything whatsoever to defame from this point you'll get a solicitors letter.

Me:
Morning Cameron.
I haven't had a refund so if the speakers turn up (which I'm pretty sure now that they won't) I'll be keeping them. And without a tracking number I can't garauntee I'll be in to "turn them away" so they'll go next door. So, I'd appreciate a tracking number. The case with ebay will remain open until I either get my speakers or until my £200 gets refunded.
I hope that you're on really good terms with your family of solicitors because when they see these messages they might not be too pleased that you're wasting their time. As for defaming, if you deal and talk to people the way you've dealt with me I'd say the only person damaging your reputation is you and you alone.

I just want to reiterate that the case will remain open until this whole debacle is resolved.

Him:
Hi. I'm new to all of this

Outright deception from your first words.

Right now the status is stolen.

Me:
Cameron, why refund me after you've sent the speakers? Absolute madness.
As soon as the refund has cleared into my bank account I'll get back in touch to get your money back to you for the second time.

Him:
NO - matters moved to a state where by your actions you have taken these without permission. It was perfectly clear that you were not to take possession & had no reason to do so as an official status of refunded is all that was required.

Claiming the money had to be in your bank account is meaningless. The status by all legal definition is that your funds were back with Ebay you had no right to the item. You had several communications from the owner stating that the item was not to be taken possession of but you still did it. Taking things without the owners permission is Theft.

Me:
Cameron.
The refund has cleared, so can you let me know how you want me to send you the money.
Thanks.

And just for info, one of the corners on the bottom of one of the speakers has had an obvious knock. I'll attach photos for you. The speakers were indeed really well packaged so I can only assume it happened at your end. I don't want any money off, I just wanted to make you aware so you could maybe be more descriptive in your future listings. I also noticed that the P&P on some of your other speakers you have for sale are priced at £20. Can I assume the courier companies have dropped their prices?

Anyway, let me know how you'd like your money.
Thanks.
Matt.

Him:
NO it didn't happen at this end

Me:
Whatever, I'm past caring. Send me your bank details and I'll transfer you the money. If you don't I'll assume you don't want it. In which case, thanks for the gift.
Don't let your misguided pride get in the way of what should have been an easy sale.
Under no circumstances send money directly to his bank account! His "legal wifwof" about this now being "a crime" is basically a lot of non-sense. Contact Ebay and ask them what to do. He can invoice you as you are willing to pay. He is obligated to complete the sale. There is no reason to explain why he needs to cancel a sale that has been sucessfully delivered to a buyer who is willing to pay the agreed price. As you said, only his pride stands in the way. Don't contact him again directly. Its only making it worse. Deal only with Ebay. He is in the wrong and it isn't your job to pander to his ego or his delusional ravings. Good luck, my friend. Hold firm. Ebay will back you...I'd be super shocked if they don't.
 

andybebbs

Active Member
when i buy off ebay i always use paypal they sort things very quickly if things don`t turn up or your wanting a refund.
 

Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
@ITFLmojo - I’d reject them there’s plenty of other speakers available to your
He’s p*asked you about so hit him where it hurts, in his pocket. He’s supposedly had a higher transport cost which will double when he has to pay for them to be collected.

As the other lads have said don’t communicate with him eBay you can’t trust these clowns they don’t think rationally
Good Luck.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
@ITFLmojo - I’d reject them there’s plenty of other speakers available to your
He’s p*asked you about so hit him where it hurts, in his pocket. He’s supposedly had a higher transport cost which will double when he has to pay for them to be collected.

As the other lads have said don’t communicate with him eBay you can’t trust these clowns they don’t think rationally
Good Luck.
Hey @Ascotbilly ... Personally, I'd return them too. Heck, he's already issued a refund. They arrived damaged, so filling out a return via Ebay would be easy. The OP really wants these speakers though. Personally, either way should not be an issue. Its the seller that's making this an issue. The guy obviously has serious mental health problems. There are many other, and better, speakers out there. I'd cut it loose too.
 

Timmy C

Distinguished Member
Under no circumstances send money directly to his bank account!

This needs to be in capital letters! No payment unless it's through ebay.

As far as suggestions of rejecting them, I wouldn't take my chances at this stage. He's already denied the knock on the corner and has mentioned he has sold many pairs of 752's, so could well have pictures of a mint pair to try and prove they weren't damaged before sending. There can't be many used speakers much better than 752's that can be had for 200 quid so as long as you are happy with them, pay him his money through ebay and hopefully you'll never hear from him again.
 
Last edited:

FootHealer

Active Member
This needs to be in capital letters! No payment unless it's through ebay.

As far as suggestions of rejecting them, I wouldn't take my chances at this stage. He's already denied the knock on the corner and has mentined he has sold many pairs of 752's, so could well have pictures of a mint pair to try and prove they weren't damaged before sending. There can't be many used speakers much better than 752's that can be had for 200 quid so as long as you are happy with them, pay him his money through ebay and hopefully you'll never hear from him again.
I agree. It's a personal choice he needs to make. It should, in theory, be easy to go either way. But you are right, it may be easier to just keep them, if the buyer can be given a shot of thorazine and convinced to send an invoice so the OP can pay and never deal with this guy again. That would be best for them both, really.
 

ITFLmojo

Standard Member
Hi all. Apologies for not getting back to you all individually.
After reading all your advice I got in touch with ebay last Wednesday. They said because he's sent a refund that ends the case and I can't pay him though ebay. They said I'd have to do it privately. They said I've got nothing to worry about, they've read through the messages and said I'd done my best to send the money back and eventually he'll calm down and send me their PayPal details as I have the speakers and the money. He's obviously not calmed yet as I haven't heard anything. I guess I'll just put it by for when he does get in touch.
Thank you all again for the advice, your mind goes down some crazy paths when you're dealing with people like this. I'm still half expecting a knock from the Police!
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Hi all. Apologies for not getting back to you all individually.
After reading all your advice I got in touch with ebay last Wednesday. They said because he's sent a refund that ends the case and I can't pay him though ebay. They said I'd have to do it privately. They said I've got nothing to worry about, they've read through the messages and said I'd done my best to send the money back and eventually he'll calm down and send me their PayPal details as I have the speakers and the money. He's obviously not calmed yet as I haven't heard anything. I guess I'll just put it by for when he does get in touch.
Thank you all again for the advice, your mind goes down some crazy paths when you're dealing with people like this. I'm still half expecting a knock from the Police!
I understand. Basically, it is up to him now. He can swallow his pride and accept the money you are quite willing to pay him, or he can drive himself crazy and remain out of pocket. You have done all you can.
 

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