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I'm a complete newbie - so just two basic questions:

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by johann1979, Oct 4, 2005.

  1. johann1979

    johann1979
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    Hey guys,

    As the name of the thread suggests, I am completely new to this particular part of the forums. I am seriously considering getting myself a projector and so I have decided to do my homework before I blow my interest-free student overdraft on one (he he!).

    The general idea that I am getting is that DLP (for home cinema purposes) is more appropriate and durable than LCD. Can anybody confirm this?

    My main two questions are these: How far are we away from manufacturing a projector that has a non-renewable light source? I must say that I feel the maintanance issue of approx £300 for a replacement lamp is making me think long and hard. I could argue that one projector and two lamp changes later constitutes a plasma screen, but then I have none of the mobility.

    My second big question is which projector for around the £1 000 - £1 200 mark would be most recommended, bearing in mind the resolution, lamp life and lumens.

    Thank you very much to anybody that takes the time to reply to my post.

    Cheers,
    Johann :)
     
  2. jriihi

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    Well LCD would be just great. Projector is much cheaper than plasma even with lamps but then it requires dark room and you cant just switch it on for 1 minute to check something from tv. I mean 80-100" plasma cost quite much..
     
  3. Menace

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    I always find plasmas a bit of a let down (even the expensive 1s). Most people go into stores and get the wow factor (they hike the settings right up to make them look good, trust me, they never look as good in an everyday enviroment). What the stores dont tell you is the plasmas also have "half life". So in about 3 to 4 years time the picture is pants to look at. Plus the fact they size is limited to price...lol. If you want to impress get a projector. That way you can get the perfectly flat, very large screen to show off with, at the fraction of the price.
    If you are going to have you PJ on all day every day the hours will clock up fast and bulbs will have to be replaced every 7 to 8 months.
    Why not get a widescreen for the day and use the PJ at night? Thats the path Ive gone down (just choosing the right PJ for me, my room and my requirements)
     
  4. Knyght_byte

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    i got my PJ thinking i'll use it for movies mebbe 5 nights a week, plus a few hours gaming on the weekend for a giggle......

    have had my PJ for a couple weeks and clocked up 120 hours...lol

    its just so much more fun watching anything on it, even TV, than using a normal telly...lol

    hell, once i've switched my puter over to it to play a game, once i come off the game i find i prefer using it to do post on forums, chat on msn etc....lol...

    this may just be a novelty, i hope so, i cant afford 100hrs every 2 weeks, i'll be out of bulb in about 15 months.....i'm gonna struggle to afford a bulb in 2-3 years time, nevermind just over a year!..lol

    my advice to avoid costs, set up your room so you have to face one way to watch PJ and other way to watch TV....lol...and dont plug your TV in to the PJ at all...heh
     
  5. johann1979

    johann1979
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    Thanks for the replies so far. The reason I said that DLP was probably a bit more durable was because I read an interesting article LCD Vs. DLP on avprojectorlamps.com - find the article here --> http://www.avprojectorlamps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=49

    I quote from the article: "The test indicated that given enough time LCD panels, primarily those in the blue channel, will degrade, causing shifts in colour balance and a reduction of overall contrast"

    "The test included five LCD projectors that were run constantly in 24/7 operation for several months. Thus while the test revealed a failure mode in LCD technology, it did not include a large sample of test units."

    It goes on sayin that this could happen within the warrenty period, which is a slight problem if it occurs just outside that period. It might even be cheaper to replace the whole projector, rather than just the specific panel.

    This all put together makes a projector a very expensive toy - or at least so it seems.

    I am yet to test run some models but one that grabbed my attention so far is a Mitsibushi XL8U offering 2 000 lumens, 1 024 x 768 resolution and 350:1 contrast.

    I have a good perception of lumens and resolution, I've been quite impressed with the picture of a 1 500 lumens machine, but am unsure what to make of the contrast.

    How does this all sound?
    cheers ;)
     
  6. PJTX100

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    Is that the TI (Texas Instruments who invented DLP) sponsored test where they tested quite a number of LCDs and only one or two DLP machines?

    Marketing BS mate. I don't doubt LCD does degrade over time, but it's like saying if you eat twice your own body weight of cornflakes every day it will kill you (but not before you've built an impressive collection of novelties)...PJ :D
     
  7. jriihi

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    Well i think sounds bad. Something around 400 lumens (probably too bright) in theater black mode (silent) and 1000:1 or more contrast would be much better..
     
  8. Penfold73

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    That test was sponsored by TI and drew bogus conclusions. It was actually the blue polarizers that were failing and not the LCD panels (the polarizers are relatively cheap to replace).
     
  9. theritz

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    If you're new to projectors I suggest that you do some reading of threads here on the forum over the last few months and you'll get a feel for which models are popular and why........ a projector of the kind you've described (2000 lumens, XGA resolution) is almost certainly aimed at the presentation market and is probably unsuitable for home cinema use.

    The DLP vs. LCD comparison is, unfortunately, exercised here from time to time. The TI "test/experiment" comparing DLP and LCD is regularly derided as being unrepresentative of typical use. Each technology has it's own benefits and disadvantages. I suggest that you decide how much you want to spend on a projector, get an idea of what's popular from the forum and go and see them in action from decent dealers - plenty to choose from in the forum sponsors like Ivojo (Ken Davies), Discounttv (Ben Millar) or Nexnix.


    S.
     
  10. Anim

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    There are many projectors to choose from. The lastest for Home Cinema seem to be

    LCD
    ===
    Panasonic AE900
    Sanyo Z4
    Hitachi TX200
    Epson TW600

    DLP
    ===
    Mitsubishi HC3000
    InFocus ScreenPlay 5700

    And i dont know many other DLP ones being an LCD person myself.

    Also factor in screen, mounting kit and cables to your budget

    Anim
     
  11. Neil in Bristol

    Neil in Bristol
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    Don't think of a projector as a poor alternative to a plasma screen. If you want something to watch films on and have a light controlled environment, a projector is light years ahead of a plasma. (You could watch one film a night for over three years before you even need to think about replacing the lamp).

    However, if you're looking for something for watching television on, or daytime viewing, then a plasma or a standard CRT might be a more suitable buy.
     
  12. johann1979

    johann1979
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    So you guys think it is more beneficial to get a projector with lower lumens but higher contrast as aposed to the 400:1 sort of contrast with the 2 000 lumens?

    I'm going to spend some time reading through some of the previous threads too.
     
  13. Neil in Bristol

    Neil in Bristol
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    Yes, but it also depends whether you'll mainly be watching it in the dark or with some light coming into the room.

    A 600 lumen rated projector is enough to project a 90" (200cm -ish) diagonal image in a completely dark room at an acceptable brightness. An image from a 2000 lumen machine at full brightness in the same conditions would probably just hurt your eyes!

    However, poor contrast can severely detract from the quality of the image. It's hard to imagine how much until you've seen a film like Bladerunner disappear into a grey fog.

    If you can't control the light in the room, then higher lumens would be better, but if that's the case you should probably consider whether a projector is a good idea anyway.
     
  14. johann1979

    johann1979
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    This is an ugly one - coyote ugly to be precise, but it seems to have impressive features. Price is good too. With that sort of contrast would it be important that it is not true widescreen? Wouldn't the black be black enough above the film for instance?

    I will mostly be using it at night, but can't guarantee darkness in the day...

    What do u guys think about Acer as a brand?

    here is the link... http://www.ivojo.co.uk/acer-pd725p.htm
     
  15. Knyght_byte

    Knyght_byte
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    holy mackeral.....3600 lumens? wow, thats a projector for use in a brightly lit office showing off a lovely powerpoint presentation on shiny things...

    u need to work out what u want this to be used for...

    if its likely to be used mostly in the dark with movies, go for a DLP, however to get Hi Def when sources are abundent u need to spend more than £2,000

    if its for using during daytime with movies, TV or games, then a plasma screen might suit you more....

    if its for use at various times and lights, wiht various sources and you want Hi Def on a budget, then LCD will be your choice...
     
  16. Neil in Bristol

    Neil in Bristol
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    If you're mainly going to be watching movies, get a widescreen projector that's designed for the purpose. Presentation projectors are generally designed to be very bright but they're optimised for showing Powerpoint presentations, and so may have lousy colour reproduction, inadequate scalers, too much screen door effect, low contrast, high black levels etc. etc.

    Do some reading on the forums about the difference between LCD and DLP. There are some slight disadvantages to both that you might want to be aware of. There's more to it than one being more suitable for dark rooms than another IMHO.
     
  17. mitor

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    Yep all sensible points being made.

    I think at the price point you mentioned (the oft' used 1K) you could simply decide if high def is impotant to you, if it is go LCD if not DLP.

    A little simplistic, but given the respective prices of the two camps it's fairly sensible.

    But I would also chuck in my two penneth that unless you want to use it in daylight, get a proper home cinema 16:9 model.

    oh, and GOOD LUCK!
     
  18. johann1979

    johann1979
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    I think I'm starting to form a clearer picture in my head about LCD and DLP. I think I'm more scared of the rainbow effect with single chip DLP models than I am of the blue LCD panel degrading with LCD projectors.

    I also read a long article with all the facts about the TI experiment and have to say that I take their findings with a pinch of salt. I am not arguing that LCD will degrade over time, but I firmly believe that operating portable machines 24/7 would have accelerated the process.

    Thanks for the help so far - I will keep reading :)
     
  19. mitor

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    Senisble, better to read it now than after a purchase!

    Don't forget that rather like the "issues" with plasma screens a lot of the life expectancy issues are grossly exaggerated, or at least, taken out of context.

    Some of the figures for life expectancy use unusually high numbers of hours per day, I think you'll find with most of these technologies that barring a fault the device will work well long past the point of it having any real replacement value.

    We have an old epson PJ in work which has been thoroughly abused over many years and still show a very good picture (if you ignore the dreadful screen door that's always been there!)

    I would try to find somewhere you could get a demo though (not easy I admit) I had a quick demonsration of the AE700 before my purchase but did not notice the VB till later as I like you was looking mainly for the absence of screen door!

    As for DLP's I've seen the RBE but it's hard on a short demo to know wether this would effect you during general viewing.

    I think we all need to have someone's house to visit before purchase to see these things in action!
     
  20. Neil in Bristol

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    I think it's safe to say that generally DLPs project a better image (no screen-door effect, smoother, more vivid) but the rainbow effect can be a real problem for some people.

    I was also worried about rainbows, and whether my friends would also be affected, so I went for LCD. I wouldn't get hung up about panels degrading. My five-year-old LCD that I've just replaced was still fine.
     
  21. n0s

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    Simple answer, if you want HD at your price, it has to be LCD, if you can afford more then go with a DLP if you dont suffer from rainbows. The Benq 7700 is nice, but if you take out a loan you could buy a H79 and that would really impress you, oh and if you win the lottery the get a Sim C3X, all the pluses of DLP and no rainbows!!!
     
  22. summat

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    Be interested when the Z4's get popular to see if the DLPs still rate as highly for the contrast level.

    Oh, and to OP - consider where you're going to mount the PJ, and work out if the PJ noise is going to be an issue. For me, it is, and I really, really appreciate the Sanyo's (Z2) low noise level.
     
  23. PJTX100

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    It absolutely isn't safe to say this. Yes pay multiple times as much on a DLP and it will out-gun LCD. Put a 1K LCD against a 1K DLP and it's swings and roundabouts. TV test - 4805 vs a PJTX100 and the LCD was preferred. Yes it was just one test, yes it's not the be-all-and-end-all, but enough to suggest that pound-for-pound it isn't as clear cut as most of the AV press would lead you to believe. And that's before the new crop of D5 panels...PJ
     

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