1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

If.............??

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by petrolhead, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    ..I was going to replace my Epson TW100 what would I replace it with? I have £3K to spend.

    I will not make any suggestion myself as I do want slant the answeres in any way
     
  2. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    If you're not a DLP fan then the Epson TW500 is a fantastic machine and you will see the improvement over the 100. If you prefer DLP (although you may miss the extra resolution the TW100 uses so well) then the best up to £3k is gonna be the Sharp Z200 or Z201.

    However, I think the TW100 is fantastic anyway, very hard to make a life altering upgrade for £3k, and I would wait until you could increase your budget a little more to get into a WXGA DLP. If you've got a wodge burning a hole in your pocket you could grab yourself a video processor - the new Lumagen will give your system one hell of a boost when it's out later in the year and will still be used when you evertually do upgrade PJ
     
  3. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    Not much experience with video processor. What would it do for me?

    How much will I need to spend for WXGA?
     
  4. rOAdeh

    rOAdeh
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Messages:
    602
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Winchester
    Ratings:
    +5
    Any reason why you aren't recommending the BenQ 8700 Liam? Comes in at just under £3k brand new, HD2+ 1280x720 and to my eyes looks as good as the z200 if not better (albeit i do have owner's bias and it's been about 3 months since i saw the z200 :D )
     
  5. theritz

    theritz
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,451
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +27
    petrolhead,


    If DLP is on the menu, then the NEC HT1100 has to be on the list.......... £3231 from Nexnix, for example, not a huge budget overshoot.......... the BenQ 8700 might have the advantage over the NEC in terms of resolution (pixel count) but I'd do some reading over on avsforum before I opted for the BenQ.... The NEC HT1100 (judging by the 1000, its predecessor) should give you brilliant performance. There's a HT1000 for sale in the forums here (by Vexorg) which would rock your world and leave you with well filled pockets.................

    Jeez, I just love spending other peoples money........ :thumbsup:



    Sean G.
     
  6. MikeA

    MikeA
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    26
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    West Lothian
    Ratings:
    +1

    As a former TW100 owner I would say go for the TW500.........I did :smashin:


    Mike
     
  7. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    An off-board video processor will handle all deinterlacing and scaling duties for your system. A dedicated processor like the DVDO iScan or Lumagen will outperform the processor built into your projector giving a new lease of life to the system, that can be carried over to any new display when the time comes. The processor will maximise the picture quality you can get all the way up to the physical limitations of the projector and DVD player (which can always be upgraded too ;) ). It will also make quite a noticeable difference to picture quality from Sky/Freeview/Cable etc.

    You could then go feeding that into the BenQ mentioned earlier but I feel with the BenQ you can see where some corners have been cut for the sake of getting the HD2+ chip in on a budget. If you are going for ultimate PQ then I would sacrifice resolution for the NEC or wait for something like the Mitsubishi HC2000 (delayed) or Optoma H77 (always delayed!) which will hit at £5K.
     
  8. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    Isn't the NEC a 4:3 pannel and therefore create light overspill. One of the reasons I went from a 4:3 to a 16:9 pannel



    I doubt if going to the Epson TW500 I would be blown away compared to DLP???
     
  9. Messiah

    Messiah
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +339
    What about the Tosh MT8 available in the classifieds for £2k. Having owned both a TW100 (2 of them actually and a Yamaha clone LPX500) and an MT8 I can assure you that if you do not suffer rainbows or nausea from DLP then the MT8 will be a VERY WORTHY upgrade.
     
  10. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    Is the MT8 a clone of somit else or the other way round, can't remember
     
  11. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    InFocus made it, Toshiba OEM'd it. Get the Toshiba, then install the InFocus firmware from their website!!
     
  12. Messiah

    Messiah
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +339
    InFocus SP7200
     
  13. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    Sorry but wasn't there geometry problems with the 7200 as opposed to the 5700?
     
  14. harrisuk

    harrisuk
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Messages:
    5,322
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Ratings:
    +58
    A friend of mine upgraded from a hs 10 to a NEC HT1100. He is well impressed with it.
     
  15. theritz

    theritz
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,451
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Although the HT1000 is a 4:3 panel, it does 16:9 mode (or you could run from a hcpc in 1:1 mode and let the dvd software do the 16:9 (or 2.35:1) bit - Gary Lightfoot has the low-down on this. the overspill is not really noticeable, effectively non-existant with appropriate screen masking and Liam is right, it has the ultimate picture quality short of going into serious money. Having run one for over a fortnight, the colour fidelity and complete absence of panel artifacts (Fixed Pattern Noise or Banding) is breathtaking. There's a mega thread over on avsforum by Andrea Manutti (spelling check...) comparing the HT1000 with Sim and one other (can't recall details) but the HT1000 was not outclassed by any stretch of the imagination. The resolution of a HD2 panel is certainly attractive, but I'd still think the HT1000 is an absolute stormer.


    Having got over it, now I want the bloody thing again......... :blush:

    Sean G.
     
  16. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    Screen masking and HTPC and a no go area for me I'm afraid
     
  17. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    I think with or without HCPC and masking the NEC or the MT8 are absolutely your best option with a budget of around £3k. To my eyes the only matterhorn chip PJ with a sweeter picture than the NEC is the projectiondesign zero five but that lists at over £4k!!
     
  18. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    Hi Liam

    Have you changed your mind. You origionally suggested going video scaller ;)

    I think you are probable right. My only concern will be value of my TW100 second hand.

    Ypu mentioned DVDO iscan, which one? Will this improve the composite signal from my freeview box?
     
  19. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Sorry meant best projector upgrade option for £3k. For your system (well what's on your website anyway) I would still go scaler route for now and wait for a more affordable HD2+ chip PJ which is quite an improvement over the HD2.

    If you are running Freeview composite then you could really do with rewiring your system!!! You could use an RGB to SVHS converter and feed RGB to the local TV and SVHS to the PJ. Or if you go scaler use an RGB + Sync cable to send RGB to the scaler from freeview.

    You should be able to set up in a way that the scaler will feed the Epson 720P via DVI with all your devices running into the scaler. The DVDO iScan HD is the one I was referring to and is a relatively easy to use solution that also takes audio from your devices to battle any audio sync delay problems. Later in the year the new Lumagen range will also be available which look very tempting...
     
  20. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    My Freeview does not output SVHS.

    So you nwould go HD and ooposed to Ultra? If I output RGB to scaler why the sync cable and if I have a sync problem will it not manifest itself with my DVD player?

    Sorry Liam for the silly questions but this is a new area to me
     
  21. inzaman

    inzaman
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Messages:
    7,875
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Derby
    Ratings:
    +929
    Petrolhead keep them coming :thumbsup: as this is also quite new to me and turning into quite an interesting thread.

    I had previously considered a scaler but was always put off by the lip sync problems not having a master audio delay on my amp, and not wanting to change my amp. The new HD one does have its own audio delay so my interest has now been restarted.
     
  22. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Yeah I wasn't too clear again either!

    If you don't go scaler and want a quick and easy better connection to the projector then buy a JS Technology RGB to SVideo converter which has RGB scart in, and RGB scart AND SVHS scart out. RGB scart goes to TV, SVHS to projector. However this is irrelevant if you go the scaler route.

    Ultra is good (and cheaper) but won't make enough of a difference IMO. The HK25 already has a very good progressive scan output and so only sky would see some benefit. The DVDO HD or new Lumagen make even better use of the Silicon Image chipset plus they carry out scaling duties too so the DVD and Sky signal will be scaled up to 720P and will look fantastic :D

    RGB as it exists in scart form is R, G, B and sync (sync is extracted from composite video). A scart to 3 RCA lead won't do it, a scart to 4 RCA will.

    An audio visual sync problem will manifest itself on every source, but it will only likely be visible on Sky channels where there is already an inherent delay. No worries though cos your AV32r has lip sync delay anyway!! (and is another reason why we buy quality components - things we don't even know about are already done for us ;) ) You can orget I even mentioned it :)
     
  23. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    So to clarify:

    1) Freeview The HD will 100% improve the picture. All I need is a RGB inc Sync converter. What if I still want to view on my TV as well
    2) DVD. The HD will improve the picture but not as much as the Freeview. This is due the the onboard processing on the HK.

    So if the HD takes over the processing I assume that I switch it off on the DVD and Projector?

    Where is a good place to buy one of these Iscans?

    Mods if you now want to move this, feel free as its now a processing topic
     
  24. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    The HD will improve freeview picture, I couldn't put a percentage on it. It won't totally remove all processing artefacts however since it is still working from a pants signal to start with. It will look leagues better though :) If freeview has only one scart then you will need a scart splitter of some form to duplicate the signal to TV.

    DVD will have relatively less crap to be cleaned out from the signal in the first place. You can experiement with Prog scan on and off within the DVD, IIRC there wasn't too much in it demoing the HD at Owl when it first came in (they have a DVD25) but only longer term testing will tell. Either way the improvement will be quite fantastic :D

    The projector shouldn't need processing "switched off". You'll need to experiment with settings a bit but you can try sending either 720P component or 1280 x 720 RGB (so the same res but either RGB or YUV colourspace) and via either analogue VGA/YUV or DVI. You never know 1080i or 1080p might work well!

    As for where to get one I think I know a pretty good dealer :rolleyes: ! If you want me supply it or to help with your setup specifics drop me a mail and I'll get a schematic together etc.
     
  25. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
    Send a mail re cost.

    When you say quite fantastic can you elaborate please. Whats going to be better
     
  26. inzaman

    inzaman
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Messages:
    7,875
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Derby
    Ratings:
    +929
    Liam, so for DVD then both PAL & NTSC material would the picture quality really be that amazing. Also as the HD scaler is £1k would this be far superior to a £1k dvd player, cheers inza.
     
  27. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81
  28. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    PAL & NTSC is irrelevant - the HD will add £1000 worth of dedicated video processing to a system. Even a £1000 DVD player will be improved by a video processor, and after seeing Gordons 42PHD6 fed by Arcam DV79 into Lumagen HDP I think I am now ruined for life since not much will get close to that!!

    In terms of should I buy a £1000 player or £1000 processor, or how best should I spend a grand, I would say the processor. It will work it's magic on your DVD and your other sources too (Sky etc) and if you really fancy going for top-notch you can slap a £1000 DVD player in the mix later :D
     
  29. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    I remember Dale saying there would only be space for one SDI socket, but it does add a very tempting upgrade route for later.... :rolleyes:
     
  30. petrolhead

    petrolhead
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    4,477
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +81

Share This Page

Loading...