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If you had £1000 quid?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Bill, Aug 4, 2003.

  1. Bill

    Bill
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    Sort of torn at the minuite, I was going to go down the CRT route, but after measuring the dimensions and placing a template in my room; I think it might prove impractical.

    So I am considering the Sanyo PLV-Z1 : for Price(ex VAT): £945.00 from Nexnix.co.uk.

    I plan to use it for 16:9 with component eventually. ( I have what is now an old Panasonic A310 which I think has these outputs it is region 1 only, need to get it out of it's box and have a look). This will get me started.

    At the minuite I have no plans to use a HCPC, so I would like to hear people's experiences using it with a Standalone DVD Player.

    However would this be compatiable with 1:1 mapping if I did go that route in the future using powerstrip.

    As far as I can see this machhine ticks all the boxes, but i would like to hear your opinions before I make a purchase.

    I will be using a 7ft wide 16:9 screen, sitting at around 12ft. I would like to wall rather than celling mount, will that cause any other problems.

    I have used the search feature to get answers for all of the above, but If you can help a novice confirm his suspicions

    I appreciate any help now with what problems I might come across; so I can calculate them into my costs/expectations.

    Cheers Bill.
     
  2. Mr Bump

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    Hi Bill. Glad to hear you are joining the wonderful world of front projection! Yeah, CRT is great, but you need room and more importantly money - a half decent entry level CRT pj will set you back £6000! With £1000 to spend about the only advice I can give is if you decide to go for a DLP projector make sure both you and anyone else that will be watching it regularly give it a thorough demo. DLP rainbows are visible even on £10,000 projectors to those that are susceptible to them, but they are much more prevalent at the cheaper end of the market. 6 segment colour wheels seem to seriously cut down rainbows, but projectors with these start at about £3000. If you do decide to go for a LCD pj like the Z1, again see if you can demo it and see if you are happy with the picture - LCDs at that price do tend to suffer from the 'chickenwire' effect, although like DLP rainbows, many people don't see them/don't mind. As for HCPC, well, I know lots of people love them, but they are pretty expensive and the benefits they give may not be so apparent on a cheaper pj. One thing you will want though is a progressive scan player - blowing a interlaced picture up to 7 foot wide really makes those artefacts visible!
     
  3. theritz

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    Couldn't agree with that - check Roland's site (B4projection.co.uk) for evidence to the contrary........ or check the "For Sale" forum - serious CRT delight available there.

    Sean G.
     
  4. buns

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    Bill,

    Screen look ok thus far?

    I was dashing off to classieds having seen a seleco on there...... but you beat me to it by some distance! :D As i mentioned i had the 400ht model for a short while and the 350 is very similar. It isnt anywhere near as bulky as i expected...... it had a home pre buitl for it in the form of a large coffee table, so its not bad at all.

    As far as lcd's im not up with the technology these days but if i were you, i would change track a fraction. Instead of buying the best you can afford, what about buying the likes of the AE100 and with the spare change then buying an iscan (which are going cheap due to reverting to dvdo or something like that). Bang for your buck it is likely to be the best solution and it will give you a couple of years good use (depending how mad an upgrader you are!) before you feel the need to move on to bigger and better things. In contrast, i think going with a projector and not having any de-interlacing scaling capabilities may leave you itching for another upgrade not long after you buy the projector! :eek:

    All the best!

    Ad

    ps. the seleco isnt hard to set up..... i never had mine done properly but an hour gave me a picture.
     
  5. Bill

    Bill
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    I have considered the Panasonic 100, but as I'm sure you know the psu has had severe problems.

    Although the deal from Robert White is a hard one to pass over, but then if will probably go bust, and as you know were in Northern Ireland were things are never that simple to get picked up and fixed.

    The Screen I got from you is in great condition, thanks again. I am putting it up on the wall tonight with the help of a mate.

    I really fancy CRT, and the seleco 350 seems to be a great machine, but I'm just considering my options one last time - did you ceeling mount yours, or table mount?

    If I do get it, if it isnt sold, I might be looking some advice, you fancy a trip to Tyrone? LOL.

    (The day after I saw you some muppet hit my car, it's costing me £450 to fix, so I've had to put of any purchase until the last day of the month.)

    The joys of life eh,

    Bill
     
  6. Bill

    Bill
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    Mr Bump

    Thanks for the advice, but you can go the CRT route for under a grand.

    I dont overly mind the idea of slight chickenwire effect, however the rainbow effect sounds very disttracting.

    The problem is that here in Northern Ireland it isnt easy to see before you buy. So good advice is really needed.

    Why does the rainbow only effect some people, is it like the refresh rates on computer monitors or somthing?>

    Thanks again,

    Bill
     
  7. Bill

    Bill
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    Thanks for rolans site address; I lost it a while ago.

    Can I ask you if you have went the CRT route?
    Where in Ireland are you from?
    ie. If I was to go the CRT route, I would like to know that it was set up properly, to get the most out of the tube life and also pic. quality. Could you recommend anyone, with approximate costs?

    Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for the advice,

    Bill
     
  8. buns

    buns
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    Hi Bill, real nuisance about your car...... i wont even start cos i have plenty of whinges!

    I did know about the various AE100 issues...... i wasnt sure just how muh of a thing they currently were mind you. Have you checked out for projector stockists here? I know of 3 for certain and i suspect some of the lower end machines may almost be breaking into more mainstream suppliers..... but anyhow, of the 3 i know i would like to have hoped they could have come up with something!!

    I never had a chance to properly mount the crt. I bought it with a tight deadline to sell my lcd elese credit card company would be breathing down my neck...... so i ended up having the seleco sold on rather sharpish :eek: As i said, i did have a picture set up very roughly on my wall from a very stort time fiddling, i imagine the rest is a bit tougher, but im sure its achieveable! My services are freely available, but i suggest it will take a very short time before you know as much as me! :D

    all the best

    Ad
     
  9. Mr Bump

    Mr Bump
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    Bill, it's to do with the way the colour wheel in a DLP projector works - unlike a movie theatre DLP projector, that has a separate DLP chip for the three colours (therefore making the pj prohibitively expensive). Home DLP pjs have just one chip and the light is passed through a rotating wheel with a red, green and blue panel before hitting the chip. The little mirrors on a DLP chip can turn 'on' and 'off' thousands of times a second and by varying the amount of red green and blue that is reflected at the screen at any given moment they can form colours, as your brain interprets the three sequential colours as a mix. Unfortunately certain peoples brains can break this colour mix back down under the right (wrong) conditions. This is usually when you have a bright white against a black background - when you re-focus your eyes on another part of the screen your brain 'breaks down' the components of the image back to the RGB that formed it, so you see a flash of the three colours - as 'rainbow'. Now, it sounds awful and if you are one of the people who can see them all the time, I'm sure it is, but it only affects a small part of the population and if you can't see them DLP offers a much smoother picture than LCD and the pixels are bang up next to each other, unlike LCD, so you don't get the chickenwire effect, that is caused by LCD pixels being a fair distance from each other. Unfortunately no one can tell you if you will be one of the unlucky ones who see the rainbows - the only way to find out is try a pj and see.....
    As for why some people are affected and others not, I'm not sure. Official figures say only 1-2% of the population are affected, although I think it's probably higher than that. Not much more though - DLP is a big form of projecting after all and it wouldn't have got this big if it was fundamentally 'broken' for the vast majority of the population.
     
  10. theritz

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    Bill.

    I'm in Dublin, and I'm an AE100 guy - considered CRT but opted for the convenience of the AE100 to start with (didn't have a dedicated room at that point, have one now and would consider CRT as an upgrade option.)

    I know I'm probably sticking my neck out, but I'd advise going for an LCD projector to begin with - prices are seriously low for entry level projectors, an AE100 or 200 or Z1 running dvd from a simple pc with 1:1 pixel matching will rock your world. You can always consider upgrading a year/18 months down the line - the technology is moving so fast that you'd probably want to do that anyway.

    Have a look at www.meedja.ie/ht for Meeps' (a member of the forum) crt installation for interesting info.

    All the best,

    Sean G.
     
  11. calscot

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    Can't see anyone answering the original question so here goes.

    I have a Z1 but as it's my first projector I can't really compare to any others except for the odd crap demo.

    So I'd say it's a great projector which is punchy enough for a 7ft screen on low lamp mode with an fld filter as long as there is low ambient light. Colors look natural and well saturated and the resolution is reasonably good seeing as it's 540 lines versus PAL's 576.

    The fisrt caveat is that sitting too close means that you'll have to defocus the projector for screen door which can be very apparent at 1.8 times screen width (I have a 6 foot 8 screen and sit about 12 feet away). This takes a bit of fiddling to compromise between hiding screen door and having a decently sharp picture. But if you spend 10 minutes or so you can get a reasonable setting and can probably leave it for good if it's mounted and not moved.

    The second caveat is that, although the scaler seems pretty good, the deinterlacer is very basic - but this can be cured with an IScan or a new Pal prog dvd player. I'm thinking about the Yamaha S540 at about £120 delivered.

    BTW the lens shift function is invaluable for tiny adjustments once you've mounted your pj and screen. It also means you don't have to be too pedantic when measuring up beforehand and allows you to mount it right way up on a wall/shelf mount. When I upgrade I definitely want this feature again.

    From what I've read 1:1 HCPC pixel mapping is no problem except that you have to rechoose the saved setting every time you power up.

    Hope this helps,
    Cheers,
    Cal.
     
  12. calscot

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    PS other costs:

    Mount + rawl plugs and screws - £82
    FLD filter - £17
    Component cable - £31.50
    Avia calibration disc - £25
    Surge protection adapter - £4.50
    Total ~ £160

    Of course you'll also need a prog scan DVD player (from £120), screen (maybe remote control), surround reciever, speakers, subwoofer and universal remote.

    I also use a dvd recorder with s-video cable as well as sky and cable tv to watch films and sport off air.

    Cheers,
    Cal.
     
  13. Bill

    Bill
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    calscot- Thanks for answering the original question; It sounds a
    great machine with all the basics covered.

    Although, I have now ran across some of the pics submitted by retro of the Panny 100 and was more than impressed . If it was not for the reliability issues that seem to plauge this model, for the price you just cant beat it.

    theritz - I think your advice has made the most sense of all. The truth is I want to get a projector sooner rather than later. So the panny would give me the entry level required, with a view to upgrade in the future 1-2 years. I guess the warrant will cover the product for at least a year, so if worse comes to worst I can upgrade then.

    I can then work slowly to either converting my loft or one of the spare rooms upstairs to enable me to go the CRT route eventually.

    Buns- From what I can gather iscan is inplace of the HCPC idea, will this also allow you to connect say my PS2 or SKY? iF not I might go the HCPC route.

    Infact it would be very easy to drop a cable from the computer room upstairs down to the living room where I intend to set up. About 5-7metres should do it.

    At the mo my PC has the following:

    450 processor
    256mb ram
    Vodoo 3000 graphics card
    5.1 sound blaster
    LG cd/rewriter DVD combo
    Powerstrip software

    so it might not take that much to change it round with a new Board / Processor / and Radion graphics card.

    Bill
     
  14. Bill

    Bill
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    calscot

    Thanks for the costs of the extras - I see that i will need the Hoya filter; I have a mate who works in Jessops who should be able to get me this at discount/cost.

    I have the speakers/amp sorted:

    Fronts - Monitor Audio PMC 703's

    Centre - Mission 75C ( I know some will think, why not balance the drivers?, ie with a MA Centre; but I originally listened to many centre speakers- not knowing which I was listening to and this was what I liked the sound of. Gotta trust your own ears.

    Rears - Boston VRS Micros

    Sub - M&K V-125 THX

    Amp - Marantz 5200


    Bill:
     
  15. Bursar

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    I demo'd a Z1 today, and was quite impressed. I ran it through several scenes from Pitch Black and Shrek.

    I'd guess the screen was about 7ft wide, and I was sat about 12-14ft back from it. For that width of screen, I felt it was a little close.

    I could see the screendoor effect quite easily. As mentioned though, a smaller screen or slight defocus should cure that. When I walked up to the screen, I could see each individual pixel on the screen.

    The room was reasonably dark, there were probably about 10 or so halogen lights that were dimmed. The dark scenes in Pitch Black (the prime reason I took that film along) seemed to be pretty good.

    I'm sure with a little tweaking and better light control in the room a bit more detail would have been noticable.

    I forgot to ask which DVD player they were using. It was a Tag something or other. They hooked it up with S-Video cables, but the picture quality was still impressive.

    I wanted to demo the AE200 as well, but unfortunately they don't stock it. They looked at the Z1, decided it was the better of the two, so went with it.
     
  16. buns

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    Nice front speakers Bill...... a few years back i really would have killed for a pair of those but ended up with a different path.

    The iscan would do ps2 or sky (so long as of course you dont exceed its inputs). The only reason i suggest this is that you should be able to get one for £300 odds and it does a good job (not as good as pc) without the hassle of the pc (and trust me, it CAN be one hell of a hassle!). You just plug everything in, turn it on and away you go! With the pc there is endless fiddling and always room for something to go wrong as im currecntly experiencing.

    Ad
     
  17. Daniel Booker

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    If you want a Sanyo PLVZ1 i have one available for £895 advertised in the classified's. My email is :nono: if your interested.

    [e-mail address removed - you know you shouldn't be doing that - Kramer]
     
  18. theritz

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    Bill,

    You should check whether that Voodoo card will do customs resolutions under Powerstrip for a start - if you're just playing dvds, then using hardware acceleration in Powerdvd/whatever, it should run fine. A radeon 9000 (reasonable price, fanless so quiet) would be a good start if the voodoo doesn't do its thing. You can always upgrade a hcpc if you get bitten by the bug, but for dvd playing alone it doesn't need to be a screamer.

    All the best,

    Sean G.
     
  19. Bill

    Bill
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    Daniel Booker : I was unable to find your projector in the classifieds; could you provide a link.

    Thanks to everyone for the help, :clap:

    I'm going to try Lyric Hi-Fi in Belfast to see if they can arrange a viewing of some projectors to give me a better idea.

    Bill


    :smashin:
     
  20. theritz

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    Bill,

    Kronos (link ) in Dungannon also do projectors - might be worth a try.

    All the best,

    Sean G.
     
  21. Bill

    Bill
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    Cheers Sean

    However, I live in the same town and went there about 2 months ago.

    They were looking nearly 2 grand for the Panny 100, looks like they wont be able to match the prices of the big boys.

    (They were however very pleasant, it has to be said)

    Bill
     

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