if we lose physical media, we'll lose ownership of movies!!!

zantarous

Distinguished Member
I agree but I still watch quite a few DVD's on mine - all of which arent on Blu-ray or 4K disc. DVD's can look quite good upscaled but obviously don't compare to HD or 4K.
But the difference is, you would buy it on Blu if you could, your not choosing the DVD cause you think it is better.

They have other hobbies, they race kayaks in comps, weekly, they have spent over $100000 on this hobby and own more than 10 kayaks between them... They also like camping, and gold prospecting, and have also spent over $100000 on this hobby. Would it be fair to call you an idiot if you were to do either of these hobbies, and only spent a few hundred or few thousands dollars on low end quality stuff to participate in these activities?
I think there seems to be a misunderstanding here, I wouldn't spend £1 on a kayak but I wouldn't think someone who did was an idiot (although camping that is like a total madness :laugh:). Movies to me is a hobby not an art. I like to watch in the best quality. Like I said I am sure to those that only have a fleeting interest in film DVDs on a regular 55" HDTV probably look fine. I think your the only one that seems to have thrown the term "idiot" around. I have looked back and can't see anyone else having used this.
 

Cevolution

Well-known Member
That was exactly GrazzaB’s point re: mental barrier & why they buy DVD over the BD/4K.
It just boils down to they can’t get over the mental barrier of paying £25 when £10 will suffice. All the rest of the reasoning is just window dressing. It’s just a case of why pay £25, when £10 will do.

Artistic merit, as others have already said, has nothing to do with this particular discussion.
The main reason ‘we’ buy HD/4K over SD is because SD looks crap on modern TVs. Nobody is buying Transformers in 4K over DVD for its artistic merit. It’s all about the picture/audio quality.

‘We’ don’t like the poor PQ & are willing to pay the extra. Some people (like your parents) don’t mind/care/put up with the poor PQ.
If everything were equal & your parents already had a 4K/BD player & TV at home, & 4K/BD were exactly the same price as DVDs, would your parents still buy the DVD over 4K/BD? Unlikely.

The member that quoted my original post today brought up the artistic intent, not me, go back and reread his comment:

But there’s nothing idiotic about wanting the best possible version, once that’s as close to what was filmed in the first place - much like wanting the best version of an artist’s album.

"The main reason WE buy..."

You, me, and people on this site, don't represent the majority, we represent the minority.

"The main reason ‘we’ buy HD/4K over SD is because SD looks crap on modern TVs."

To you, me, and some on here, but plenty of people don't think this.

"Nobody is buying Transformers in 4K over DVD for its artistic merit. It’s all about the picture/audio quality."

If you can produce the sales data for Transformers over all formats, the 4K UHD sales would make up a speck... Most people that are interested in the movie don't care about artists merit, or the P/AQ to the extent you do.

"We’ don’t like the poor PQ & are willing to pay the extra"

Sure, you and I, people on here, and other on forums like this are, but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of people aren't.

"Some people (like your parents) don’t mind/care/put up with the poor PQ.
If everything were equal & your parents already had a 4K/BD player & TV at home, & 4K/BD were exactly the same price as DVDs, would your parents still buy the DVD over 4K/BD? Unlikely."

They already have a 4K tv, but they still choose to watch DVDs on it. They also often pay a high price for DVDS, for instance, they bought Nobody a couple of weeks ago on DVD for $20-25 Australian dollars (I'm not sure exactly what they paid), the 4K+BD set is au$25.89 at the moment. If they were forced to upgrade, then I believe they would make the transition to streaming rather than Blu-ray or 4K.

This might be a UK forum, but that doesn't mean that all members are from the UK, and the discussion is solely about the UK market Hippo99... The majority of 4K UHD Blu-ray's don't cost the equivalent of £25 here in Australia, they are much cheaper than that. Also, discounts and specials are a regular occurrence here in Australia, it's not uncommon to be able to get 4K Blu-ray's for a simlar price to the Blu-ray or the DVD, sometimes even less.

I pre-ordered A Quite Place Part II on 4K yesterday for under 20 Australian dollars (roughly £11). If you guys are paying £25 for the majority of your 4K discs, then you are getting taken for a ride.
 
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hippo99

Distinguished Member
But there’s nothing idiotic about wanting the best possible version, once that’s as close to what was filmed in the first place - much like wanting the best version of an artist’s album. The two sides will always see the other side negatively - each side has a relevant viewpoint regarding their own choice, but not of the opposing viewpoint.
This post?
Nothing about artist intent here. Best possible version (as close to what was filmed) obviously he means best picture quality. If he was talking about artistic intent, you can buy alternate/directors cuts on both DVD or BD/4K so obviously he wasn’t talking about that.
Best version of an artists album ie best audio quality.

As already said no one is buying Transformers in BD/4K for its artistic merits. To be crystal clear, no one is buying Transformers on DVD for its artistic merits either. It’s just down to price & indifference to the PQ on SD.

I don’t think anyone is under the assumption that we are the majority (since everyone here knows & repeatedly say to you that DVD sells more than BD/4K). Not sure why you keep bringing it up (since we know DVD is the majority, why we would then think we’re the majority? 🤷‍♂️).
Price & indifference to the PQ on SD is the reason DVD still sells. You seem to be the only one arguing against this reasoning, but it’s still not clear what exactly what reason you think it is.

Also since your parents don’t have a BD/4K player then it makes no sense to buy the BD/4K disc as they can’t play it. My hypothetical was if they did already have a BD/4K player & the discs were the same price.
 
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Cevolution

Well-known Member
This post?
Nothing about artist intent here. Best possible version (as close to what was filmed) obviously he means best picture quality. If he was talking about artistic intent, you can buy alternate/directors cuts on both DVD or BD/4K so obviously he wasn’t talking about that.
Best version of an artists album ie best audio quality.

Of course there was, wanting the best picture and audio quality, and "as close to what was filmed in the first place" is the member saying that they want the closest to the directors artistic intent as possible.

As for idiotic, the member might not think constantly buying multiple versions of discs, upgrading to new versions when they released, is idiotic, but a lot of people do, including myself, and that's coming from someone who has and still does buy a crap load of discs... I love my physical media collection, however, I still do think that I am a complete fool for wasting the amount of money I have on it.
As already said no one is buying Transformers in BD/4K for its artistic merits. To be crystal clear, no one is buying Transformers on DVD for its artistic merits either. It’s just down to price & indifference to the PQ on SD.

Speak for yourself, I wouldn't have upgraded to the Transformers 4K disc if there was any evidence that it was a backwards step to the Blu-ray in terms of the director's intent.

You're making this discussion about enthusiasts, when it's not... Your opinion is irrelevant when evaluating this as a whole. Plus, you're biased, because your are an enthusiast, that wastes their money on discs just like I do... It's the opinion of people that don't buy Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray's that I'm interested in hearing from, not you.
I don’t think anyone is under the assumption that we are the majority (since everyone here knows & repeatedly say to you that DVD sells more than BD/4K). Not sure why you keep bringing it up (since we know DVD is the majority, why we would then think we’re the majority? 🤷‍♂️).
Price & indifference to the PQ on SD is the reason DVD still sells. You seem to be the only one arguing against this reasoning, but it’s still not clear what exactly what reason you think it is.

The discussion was about DVD and the majority... The member I originally responded to posted about DVDs still being the preferred physical media format by the masses, I was responding to that, saying that I don't agree with their speculation as to why plenty still stick with DVD (and mentioned Blu-ray and 4K enthusiasts thinking that people that still buy DVDs are idiots, because I regularly see comments from enthusiasts stating this):
DVD is by far, somehow, still the biggest physical media format and I would imagine a significant part of that is due to the impulse buy in stores like this. I also think the mental barrier of the £10 level contributes to this, so 4K at £25 must seem incredibly expensive for most people. £10 is much more palatable. So I’m surprised they’re even dropping DVDs.

Also since your parents don’t have a BD/4K player then it makes no sense to buy the BD/4K disc as they can’t play it. My hypothetical was if they did already have a BD/4K player & the discs were the same price.

I already answered the question in a previous post, and said that my parents probably wouldn't buy a Blu-ray/4K player and discs, they would likely move from DVDs to streaming. If their DVD player did happen to break, it's possible that they might purchase a Blu-ray player to replace it, however, if they did, I believe they would still buy DVDs to play in it, rather the Blu-ray's and 4K discs. Though, your hypothetical makes little sense really in the context of the discussion... "What if" who bloody cares what if, it's irrelevant.
 
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hippo99

Distinguished Member
Of course there was, wanting the best picture and audio quality, and "as close to what was filmed in the first place" is the member saying that they want the closest to the directors artistic intent as possible.
I think you would probably be one of very few people that would interpret it that way.
Most people would just interpret “...wanting the best possible version, once that’s as close to what was filmed in the first place” to mean, I want the best presentation possible (ie best PQ/AQ possible).
ie I want the best version that looks as close to the original negative as possible.

Nothing about artistic intent implied. You’re projecting that interpretation onto the quote yourself.

As for the rest of your post, as others have said - a weird rant.
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
If 4K discs were £11 I would never buy streaming versions, but they’re £20 sometimes, and increasingly £25 has become the standard which I won’t pay personally. Obviously everyone is different and can afford different amounts, but for me a 4K release without anything special (steelbook, box set extras etc) isn’t worth it for £25. I’ve gone through decades of spending money on laserdiscs, VHS, DVD and now Blu-ray and 4K and probably don’t have either the money or the will to do it all over again. I had probably over a 1000 DVDs but half that number of BRs and a third of the BR amount for 4K. I value physical very much but the outlay is too much for me a lot of the time, especially in the last year. Yes they come down in price, but not before I’ve got the iTunes version for half the price or less, and the iTunes version 9 times out of 10 comes with just as many extras and isn’t a pain for anyone else in the family to play it around the house. And that quality is very much good enough. If they were the same price though? I don’t think I’d ever buy a streaming version.

But most people would think I’m mad to pay even £20 for a 4K disc as DVD - or obviously streaming - is good enough for them. I’m not criticising them because people have different hobbies and priorities and who’s the mug, them or me when for something like The Thing or Halloween I’m now contemplating buying it in, what, its FIFTH physical format release! Obviously I think it’s worth it! But many may well quite reasonably think my hobby is crazy while I’m trying desperately to tell them about the benefits of lossless audio…
 
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Cevolution

Well-known Member
Of course there was, wanting the best picture and audio quality, and "as close to what was filmed in the first place" is the member saying that they want the closest to the directors artistic intent as possible.

I think you would probably be one of very few people that would interpret it that way.
Most people would just interpret “...wanting the best possible version, once that’s as close to what was filmed in the first place” to mean, I want the best presentation possible (ie best PQ/AQ possible).
ie I want the best version that looks as close to the original negative as possible.

Nothing about artistic intent implied. You’re projecting that interpretation onto the quote yourself.
I haven't projected that interpretation at all, what you have said about what you interpreted the members comment to mean - "ie I want the best version that looks as close to the original negative as possible.", means exactly the same thing as I said... Wanting it to look as close to how it looked on the original negative/how it originally looked in theatres, means that you want the directors artistic vision that they shot, preserved, ie colour timing, film grain etc. What I said and what you said are one in the same, we just worded it differently. Also, the best versions to the majority of Blu-ray and 4K enthusiasts for P/AQ are often the ones that gets the closest to this.
You're not going to find people who don't buy Blu-ray and 4K Discs on this forum, perhaps you should try a forum on Kayaking?
A bit of a silly comment from you really... Obviously I wasn't saying that I expected to find them on here. I was merely meaning that nobody on here that is a Blu-ray and 4K enthusiast is qualified to answer the question about why the masses still buy DVDs, and why many haven't moved to Blu-ray and 4K like you have. And also, it's meaningless whether members on this site agree with each other, it's no surprise, your amongst people who share the same hobby... Your point of view might be popular on here and sites like this, but it isn't anywhere else, that's what matters, because it's the masses that you need to convince for DVD to dispear, and for Blu-ray and 4K to take over.
 
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hippo99

Distinguished Member
Feel like you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing...
Finding Nemo on DVD & UHD share the same ‘artistic vision’. They do not have the same picture quality.
I was merely meaning that nobody on here that is a Blu-ray and 4K enthusiast is qualified to answer the question about why the masses still buy DVDs, and why many haven't moved to Blu-ray and 4K like you have
That’s like saying if I enjoy fine dining, I can’t possibly understand why someone would (or myself enjoy) eat McDonald’s or other junk food 🙄
 
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Cevolution

Well-known Member
Feel like you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing...
I've felt that about you, that you have just been arguing for the sake of it, for pretty much our entire conversation.


Finding Nemo on DVD & UHD share the same ‘artistic vision’. They do not have the same picture quality.

You used an animated Pixar movie as an example, surely you could have thought of something better. The DVD and UHD of Finding Nemo certainly would not share the same artistic vision, if there are differences in colour timing between the discs for instance... It's not uncommon to find these differences between a DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K disc. The colour timing is one aspect that makes up the overall picture quality.
 

Cevolution

Well-known Member
That’s like saying if I enjoy fine dining, I can’t possibly understand why someone would (or myself enjoy) eat McDonald’s or other junk food
I didn't say that you can't possibly understand the masses point of view on why they haven't made the transition to Blu-ray and 4K, just that you can't speak for them.
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
Now I know you’re being argumentative just for the sake of of it.
99% of people would interpret ‘Artistic vision‘ to be the cut/edit of a film.
Colour timing/grain etc is all picture quality related.

When people were calling for the ‘Snyder cut‘ so they could see his artistic vision of Justice League, do you honestly think people were talking about seeing his colour timing/grain etc or were they talking about seeing his cut/edit of the film 🤦‍♂️
 

Cevolution

Well-known Member
99% of people would interpret ‘Artistic vision‘ to be the cut/edit of a film.
I don't agree, more than a decade of reading on sites like Blu-ray.com, is enough to know that your "99% of people" claim is nonsense.

The edit/cut is another aspect of the director's artistic vision.
Colour timing/grain etc is all picture quality related

They are a part of the director's artistic intent, which contributes to how the picture quality ends up.
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
I don't agree, more than a decade of reading on sites like Blu-ray.com, is enough to know that your "99% of people" claim is nonsense.

The edit/cut is another aspect of the director's artistic vision.


They are a part of the director's artistic intent, which contributes to how the picture quality ends up.
If you interpret what you read on Blu-ray.com the same way that you do on AVForums, that’s not really saying a lot.

On most Movie/DVD/BD/UHD review sites, reviews are broken down into
1) Movie itself/artistic merit/intent
2) Picture Quality (colour timing etc)
3) Audio Quality
4) Extras (if applicable)

After a decade of reading sites like Blu-ray.com I’m surprised you’re not aware of this convention.
 

Cevolution

Well-known Member
If you interpret what you read on Blu-ray.com the same way that you do on AVForums, that’s not really saying a lot.

On most Movie/DVD/BD/UHD review sites, reviews are broken down into
1) Movie itself/artistic merit/intent
2) Picture Quality (colour timing etc)
3) Audio Quality
4) Extras (if applicable)

After a decade of reading sites like Blu-ray.com I’m surprised you’re not aware of this convention.

You've outlined how "pro reviewers" structure their reviews, I don't pay any attention to those sources... I was talking about conversations in threads between members on the Blu-ray.com forums, who often have more knowledge, and pick up far more issues with discs, than the majority of so called pro reviewers.
 
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hippo99

Distinguished Member
You've outlined how "pro reviewers" structure their reviews, I don't pay any attention to those sources... I was talking about conversation in threads between members on Blu-ray.com, who often have more knowledge, and pick up far more issues with discs, than the majority of so called pro reviewers.
The members on Blu-ray.com are considered a bit of a joke on here...

Non pro reviewers (ie fan reviews) also use the same convention. That’s why it’s a convention.

In the context of the discussion re: DVD vs BD/4K the vast, overwhelming majority of films don’t differ in the ‘artistic intent’ between the DVD & BD/4K.

Where they differ is PQ/AQ. This is obvious to everyone except yourself, that this is what @davidf was referring to when he said ‘best possible version’.
 
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movieman1866

Well-known Member
Sorry, totally off topic but reading this thread reminded me of an old joke.

An Eskimo was telling his cockney friend how he was trying to keep warm and accidently set fire to his kayak. “Ah!” came the reply “Just proves the old saying. You can’t have your kayak and ‘eat it.”

On a more serious note I think one member telling another that their opinion is irrelevant is uncalled for.
I enjoy reading the various opinions on here but sadly one person here just wants to argue with anyone that doesn't agree with their opinion. A shame as that member has put up some decent posts before. Maybe just need to chill out for a bit.
 

captainarchive

Distinguished Member
And also, it's meaningless whether members on this site agree with each other,
I agree it's meaningless and so is you coming on here to argue with people about the reason why most people buy DVDs. I don't care what people, who don't share my hobbies and interests, do or don't do. I'd hazard a guess most people here feel the same way.
 

davidf

Well-known Member
I see most people buying DVD because of price, and of course, because the option is still there. Bluray has been around for almost 15 years now, and DVD is still here - DVD should’ve been discontinued a decade ago. If Bluray was the only option on the shelf, they’d buy that instead. Old formats need to go in order for new formats to make any impression on the sales stats, and to make it relevant.

If when Bluray was released, a DVD copy was included in all Bluray releases, the discontinuation of the stand alone DVD release would have made way for a genuine Bluray take over - we’d now be seeing Bluray at the top of the format sales figures, and things would look very different, no matter how you view the stats.

People still buy DVD because they can.
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
I say this every time we have a thread like this and it descends into a DVD v Blu. Blu-ray's biggest hurdle has always been its name, Blu-ray is the least descriptive product name ever. No one knows what it is unless you are really in to movie collecting or a console owner. Most normal folks are are not digitally native see DVD and know what that is, they look at Blu-ray and have no idea what that product is.

DVD ah that is the disc I can buy to watch a movie on, Blu-ray no idea what this is, why is Blue spelt like that, is this a French thing or something? I bet there are folks that went looking for a DVD player and were sold a cheap Blu-ray player and have no idea it can play these discs.

I remember a conversation with an ex girlfriend form a few years ago, she asked me why I still bought DVDs, I said they are not DVDs they are Blu-rays. Her exact response was what is a Blu-ray?
 

movieman1866

Well-known Member
I say this every time we have a thread like this and it descends into a DVD v Blu. Blu-ray's biggest hurdle has always been its name, Blu-ray is the least descriptive product name ever. No one knows what it is unless you are really in to movie collecting or a console owner. Most normal folks are are not digitally native see DVD and know what that is, they look at Blu-ray and have no idea what that product is.

DVD ah that is the disc I can buy to watch a movie on, Blu-ray no idea what this is, why is Blue spelt like that, is this a French thing or something? I bet there are folks that went looking for a DVD player and were sold a cheap Blu-ray player and have no idea it can play these discs.

I remember a conversation with an ex girlfriend form a few years ago, she asked me why I still bought DVDs, I said they are not DVDs they are Blu-rays. Her exact response was what is a Blu-ray?
Is that why she is an ex girlfriend?

I agree about the name, HDDVD made far more sense and everyone would have understood that.
 

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