if we lose physical media, we'll lose ownership of movies!!!

wilson85uk

Novice Member
I really hope DVD's, Bluray's and 4k bluray's will remain for the foreseeable future, we all know streaming is the norm (I stream), but people forget you don't own the content, it's on demand to access while its available, even if you make digital purchases their not secure ownership and can be removed.

Physical is safer then in the cloud, ok discs could be damaged, lost, stolen etc but even if their out of print you still have other copies in circulation, used or new old stock. It may be hard for rare or limited editions but still.

My concern is the big movie outlets especially walt disney (who now own 20th century) along with the others will hold the vaults to ransom meaning once they ditch discs all together other outlets and distributors won't be able to buy licences and rights thus killing off collectors and those who prefer actual hard copies.
 

Coz22998

Distinguished Member
They will......just as much more of a niche product like vinyl now seems to be.

While we (physical media fans) can't hold back the inevitable streaming future, there are still enough out there so that even if major studio's do ditch physical media production themselves, they will still see sufficient $ in licensing out to boutique firms to make limited special edition runs. So yes, we may find a time when the next generic mid-budget thriller from WB or Universal isn't released on physical media, but that the more boutique-friendly titles (which frankly are the ones I want to own on physical media anyway) are, via Arrow, 88 Films, Eureka, Shout Factory, et al.

I think what even the most ardent physical media fans should be doing is embracing digital movies (streaming and digital purchases) and using it alongside and enhancing their physical media purchases and collections. The ridiculously low prices on iTunes of even the most random boutique titles (Tammy and the T-Rex for £1.99 a few months ago? Hells yeah) means I took a punt on that obscure title, loved it and immediately dropped £16 on the disk version........something I would never have done if I hadn't had seen it.

Arrow have it right - £5 a month to access their streaming channel to try out all these obscure titles, which physical media fans can then go out and pick up the lavish boxsets in the highest quality with all the bells and whistles that accompany it.

This is the future - using streaming and cheap digital purchases to watch MORE content to INCREASE our physical media purchases. That's my two pence worth anyways.......
 
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andy1249

Distinguished Member
They will......just as much more of a nice product like vinyl now seems to be.

While we (physical media fans) can't hold back the inevitable streaming future, there are still enough out there so that even if major studio's do ditch physical media production themselves, they will still see sufficient $ in licensing out to boutique firms to make limited special edition runs. So yes, we may find a time when the next generic mid-budget thriller from WB or Universal isn't released on physical media, but that the more boutique-friendly titles (which frankly are the ones I want to own on physical media anyway) are, via Arrow, 88 Films, Eureka, Shout Factory, et al.

I think what even the most ardent physical media fans should be doing is embracing digital movies (streaming and digital purchases) and using it alongside and enhancing their physical media purchases and collections. The ridiculously low prices on iTunes of even the most random boutique titles (Tammy and the T-Rex for £1.99 a few months ago? Hells yeah) means I took a punt on that obscure title, loved it and immediately dropped £16 on the disk version........something I would never have done if I hadn't had seen it.

Arrow have it right - £5 a month to access their streaming channel to try out all these obscure titles, which physical media fans can then go out and pick up the lavish boxsets in the highest quality with all the bells and whistles that accompany it.

This is the future - using streaming and cheap digital purchases to watch MORE content to INCREASE our physical media purchases. That's my two pence worth anyways.......

Except no , that is not going to happen , there will be no optical disc niche market.
Once optical media dies its gone forever.

Optical disc players require specialist semiconductors to work.

Specialist semiconductors require an up and running semiconductor fabrication line , and these cost billions to set up and are very expensive to keep running.
When declining media sales hit a certain level , these lines will shut down and they wont be back.

The Situation is like the Spitfire vs the Vulcan bomber.

The Spitfire is still flying , mainly because its simpler tech and you could build one in a shed , much like a record player.

The Vulcan is not flying anymore , because it is much more complex technology and the means to maintain it safely is gone , obsolete and passed into history.
This is the fate of CD and optical disc media , once its gone , its gone forever , most of the major manufacturers are out of the player market , only one or two left , and when they go , then the semiconductor lines shut down and its simply a matter of how long existing players live and then that's it.
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
Your last paragraph is almost moving. I see the sad day that my UHD player's laser will stop glowing, like when the Terminator's red eyes go out :eek:(
 

Dobbyisfree

Active Member
More seriously, won't the broadband infrastructure get better and better, meaning that the streaming won't have to be as compressed and rubbish? That's my hope anyway.
Sadly though, that may not happen, as do people care enough about it? We care about it. I wish both the picture and sound were better now. But thousands of people probably watch "4k streaming" and haven't even set it in 4k on the app, the device or the TV and don't even realise...
As an example, there are people I have spoken to who think that they have something that says "Atmos" on the box so they think that "they have Atmos" and don't even realise what they have to do to enable it.
There are, believe or not, thousands of people now who have "Freeview HD" and sit watching what is called Channel 1 (BBC1) and don't even know it's not in HD.
 

Coz22998

Distinguished Member
Except no , that is not going to happen , there will be no optical disc niche market.
Once optical media dies its gone forever.

Optical disc players require specialist semiconductors to work.

Specialist semiconductors require an up and running semiconductor fabrication line , and these cost billions to set up and are very expensive to keep running.
When declining media sales hit a certain level , these lines will shut down and they wont be back.

The Situation is like the Spitfire vs the Vulcan bomber.

The Spitfire is still flying , mainly because its simpler tech and you could build one in a shed , much like a record player.

The Vulcan is not flying anymore , because it is much more complex technology and the means to maintain it safely is gone , obsolete and passed into history.
This is the fate of CD and optical disc media , once its gone , its gone forever , most of the major manufacturers are out of the player market , only one or two left , and when they go , then the semiconductor lines shut down and its simply a matter of how long existing players live and then that's it.
Oh I agree up that eventually, all optical media will go away....its just evolution of media, the same way that VHS tapes have stopped, etc.

But given that there won't be a superior physical media format to make the current one obsolete (as has happened with every other form of media to date) and that optical media is far more than DVD (CD, etc), surely there will enough of a market to warrant at least a limited number of suppliers remaining viable for the next couple of decades or so? Or actually should we all be rushing out and buying back up players now?

But being a technical ejit that I am, does your point also stand for the production of the disks themselves rather than the players? That may be the bigger worry, the infrastructure needed to produce the disks.......oh I don't know. As long as there is another 20-or so years left in optical media, that'll do me.........my eyes will be shot and I wont remember how to wipe my own backside by then so at that point streaming will suffice........
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
But given that there won't be a superior physical media format to make the current one obsolete
Betamax vs VHS , Vinyl vs CD , CD vs MP3 and so on , the superior format does not always win.

Economics dictate that the format everyone buys IS the superior format and that is streaming.
The only upside is that there is way less requirement to manufacture tons and tons of plastic discs.
 

lgans316

Distinguished Member
Back up your precious discs fellas. I have invested heavily in back-up after a dozen discs going bad.
Backing up a disc I will own forever is the first thing I do once I unwrap even before watching it.
 

Coz22998

Distinguished Member
Back up your precious discs fellas. I have invested heavily in back-up after a dozen discs going bad.
Backing up a disc I will own forever is the first thing I do once I unwrap even before watching it.
And the irony being that by the time I've backed up all 3000 of my disks, everything will be obsolete, including myself! :rotfl:
 

lgans316

Distinguished Member
And the irony being that by the time I've backed up all 3000 of my disks, everything will be obsolete, including myself! :rotfl:

I have backed up 700+ discs in about a year. ;)
 

IGC

Well-known Member
You see what happens when you have fun with a stranger in the Alps?

Britain used to be a land of child chimney sweeps, candlestick and wagon wheel makers. What happened to all those folk?

Central heating, AC electric and rubber tyres put them to a slow death. It's progress.

Discs are definitely on the way out but it's not news streaming is the new rubber tyre! I think increased costs (COVID and Brexit (importation of raw materials) plays a part too) will speed the demise for sure. I lub YouTube but it's not the same thing as my countless dusty shelves of DVDs & Blu-rays.

I don't know maybe 5 years or so things will start to come to an end. If you look at all the big studios they're 'media companies' so it doesn't matter how they sell their product as long as it sells rents.

You will only own memories in a few years and I suppose that's what always happens but for me I like to go and look at my bulging shelves because that woks for me.

I'm having fun getting to the end of discs -hold tight! 😀
 

HumansRAnts

Standard Member
Made me angry when the first Covid wave started in the UK all the news was about how not one company in the Uk knows how to manufacture face shields, ventilators Dyson and JCB had a go at making a ventilator.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
I think eventually with improvements in technology and full fibre internet the quality of streaming will catch up. If my physical media keep me going until then that's fine by me. I did see that the physical market is still a $7 billion dollar market so I don't see it dying off too quickly. As this is really a global market even a 100 million people keen on physical could happily support sales. Companies never turn down a revenue stream if enough people are willing to pay for it.
 

Laureline

Well-known Member
It's unfortunate that the UK doesn't have the Movies Anywhere system that the US has. If the studio is a member of MA (of the majors only Paramount, LGF and MGM aren't) then your digital movies are accessible to any Digital Seller that's a member of MA

So, if you buy a film from Apple from a studio that's a member of MA then your film is available on Google, Amazon and a number of other vendors. Which means you can often go looking for the best price and the best player to stream your films

It also means that should a vendor go bust most of your movies are still available via one of the other vendors.

It does mean that if you're thinking of buying the entire Bond catalog in UHD you're more likely to choose someone like Apple instead of Vudu because Apple are more likely to be around in a decades time than Vudu
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
It's unfortunate that the UK doesn't have the Movies Anywhere system that the US has. If the studio is a member of MA (of the majors only Paramount, LGF and MGM aren't) then your digital movies are accessible to any Digital Seller that's a member of MA

So, if you buy a film from Apple from a studio that's a member of MA then your film is available on Google, Amazon and a number of other vendors. Which means you can often go looking for the best price and the best player to stream your films

It also means that should a vendor go bust most of your movies are still available via one of the other vendors.

It does mean that if you're thinking of buying the entire Bond catalog in UHD you're more likely to choose someone like Apple instead of Vudu because Apple are more likely to be around in a decades time than Vudu
That's definitely a little more insurance. I'm old school and like to have physical possession of something. The older you get the more times you see where companies promises or sales pitch means nothing when the money runs out. I also don't like being tied to a service. If I pay £10 for a 4K disc it doesn't cost me anything to watch it again, no monthly subscription required. The fact that some try to charge a lot more for UHD streaming is annoying too. Netflix for example, £12/month £144 per year, add a few more services to that and it's going run into £100's per year, every year.

I suspect they all know 4K is more or less the endgame for home entertainment. No more chances to sell you the same film over and over, hence the "rental" system. You "buy" it but then pay rent to watch it year after year. If I buy a UHD disc and the quality never gets any better I never have to pay them again. This must have been raised in many boardrooms?
 

cezarL

Active Member
I think eventually with improvements in technology and full fibre internet the quality of streaming will catch up.
It already has.
A few rips from Bravia Core have shown up you-know-where.
The Legend of Zorro 4k HDR10 for example clocks in at 76GB with lossless audio (DTS-HD and TrueHD 5.1), that's above a regular UHD disc since the streams don't have additional language tracks. Goosebumps is 59GB and comes with lossless Atmos.
I can't speak to the video bitrate as I don't download torrents, but at those sizes I expect they'll be on par or very close to discs.

Don't have a Sony TV to see what else they offer, but I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few other titles that may never make it to discs.

This is the worrying part for me... I see more and more films available in 4k HDR but ONLY on streaming (and I mean the crappy services not Bravia) with no apparent plans to have them released on disc... :(
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
It already has.
A few rips from Bravia Core have shown up you-know-where.
The Legend of Zorro 4k HDR10 for example clocks in at 76GB with lossless audio (DTS-HD and TrueHD 5.1), that's above a regular UHD disc since the streams don't have additional language tracks. Goosebumps is 59GB and comes with lossless Atmos.
I can't speak to the video bitrate as I don't download torrents, but at those sizes I expect they'll be on par or very close to discs.

Don't have a Sony TV to see what else they offer, but I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few other titles that may never make it to discs.

This is the worrying part for me... I see more and more films available in 4k HDR but ONLY on streaming (and I mean the crappy services not Bravia) with no apparent plans to have them released on disc... :(
It could potentially be cause for concern but I've yet to see a big corporation turn down easy profits. We may find they'll prioritise streaming services and then release on disc one the revenue starts to tail off.

The other side of high quality streaming is, whilst it may work for one person streaming 76GB could the infrastructure as a whole cope with the masses streaming in that quality? I suspect it will be years before that happens besides which most people seem happy with DVD quality. High bitrate may still remain as niche as 4K disc just down to demand for something that good that most have never seen.
 

IGC

Well-known Member
Streaming has just about caught up to proper UHD discs but for very very few people. Most streaming is just fake 4K [compared to a UHD disc] squeezed through a copper cable.

70 houses in my street and only about 18 have the option of 900MBPS from OpenReach for some reason and speaking to a few neighbours it looks like only 3 of us have that service. BT and Zen offer the FTTP nobody else for some reason.

Everyone knows about the service as it was started just before COVID and finished (or they left the area with poles not connected) this March (I was checking weekly and got my order in November and got installed 6 weeks after). A revelation having those speeds.


I've only watched 1 film on a streaming service (couldn't get it anywhere else and when I did it was a horrible DVD) as I like physical media and that's my best option.

For now.

I'd be a lot more relaxed about streaming if we could actually own the file ie download it and I'd just make a box and shove the file on a USB stick. That would work for me.

I just bought this today:

s-l1600(10).jpg

Streaming ain't gonna cut it for lovely stuff like that and with the added bonus I like the gamble of it getting seized too by Her Maj's customs :D
 

lgans316

Distinguished Member
I've only watched 1 film on a streaming service (couldn't get it anywhere else and when I did it was a horrible DVD) as I like physical media and that's my best option.

Sounds like a feedback from a disgruntled customer at TripAdvisor. Clearly you have been watching the wrong content on a streaming platform.

Come to my home. I will play iTunes/MA 4K HDR movies and the same movies on discs. Let's do a blind test from reasonable viewing distance and find out if one of them really looks like a horrible DVD. :laugh:
 

Tim2049

Well-known Member
The argument that streaming quality doesn't compete with discs simply doesn't wash.

i'm big into physical media but that's because I love artwork/ownership and all that archaic jazz. However, I've watched UHD streams of plenty of films I own on disc and I struggle to notice any difference.

Personally, i hate 'owning' stuff digitally & that's why I'll always buy physical. It is somewhat frustrating seeing certain other physical media advocates harping on about the quality differences though. If you've got a decent TV/setup then that simply isn't a factor...
 

Jim Di Griz

Distinguished Member
I see you have used your Lockdown time wisely, have been doing the same myself. Including TV shows as well. I almost lost the will to live doing the Friends boxset, a complete madman authored those discs the order of episodes is nonsical. Separate video tracks for the audio commentary was a pain nuisance as well.

Friends is nonsensical. And a pain. And a nuisance. Best avoided.
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
I really hope DVD's, Bluray's and 4k bluray's will remain for the foreseeable future, we all know streaming is the norm (I stream), but people forget you don't own the content, it's on demand to access while its available, even if you make digital purchases their not secure ownership and can be removed.
The demise of physical media has been greatly exaggerated. While sales have dropped of a cliff and nowhere near the hayday of the 2000s lots of labels are still churning out discs and selling out of their first runs on most titles. Between now and the end of July I have a wallet busting number of titles on order.

The most concerning thing about digital media is the ownership just see this law suite Apple lawsuit over ‘buy’ and ‘rent’ labels for digital content can continue, rules federal judge

But the most dangerous aspect of all of this is that if you have a dispute with Apple, Google, Amazon they can close your account and you can lose all your purchases. I have seen it time and time again especially with Google who will close your account over a charge back and you lose your purchases, your photos, your emails.
 

IGC

Well-known Member
I've seen 100s of streams on Netflix but not films -just not my bag. And WTF is it with the 'let us choose something for you since you have a tiny brain' option? D'oh.

Netflix has been a life saver for many the last year (I watched Tiger King in 1 sitting) but it's not exactly exciting sitting in front of the TV to stream something or as I've found, swimming through lots of swill to find 1 or 2 gems. I got these from Australia today:

1.PNG


That's exciting*.

If you have a physical media collection you'll ALWAYS find something to watch (and it won't disappear) and as I've said many times elsewhere you have the memory of it in your hand. No streaming service can come close to my collection as it's my collection.

I have around 600 DVDs that have never made it to Blu-ray and never will that's where streaming may be good (I've already downloaded ripped HD versions of DVDs on USB). I reckon 300+ or so have never been streamed and likely never will.

One great thing about streaming is the rights holders can often be a different entity so you get rare stuff like The Pursuit of D. B. Cooper which looks amazing. It's never been on DVD except a horrible release in Australia.

I think I'm preaching to the converted as people who like to actually own something will continue doing that for a very long time.

*not sure what Jack Thompson is doing to that sheep but I don't condone it and it may be illegal in England and Wales. Please contact your MP immediately.
 

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