If only BK which one?

Flobs

Active Member
I've started looking into subwoofs to enhance my Rega Aethos experience.
My room is 7.4m by 3.4m and 2.5m high. My speakers are set along the long reflective wall.
My speakers are Mordaunt Short MS 3.50's nominally 8ohm, transmission line charged, frequency response 45Hz to 22KHz (though from testing them I only hear up to 18KHz).
Anyway what I want is down firing (easier to place and better for my room) closed charged (to go better with transmission line and get tighter bass). Also need to controll crossover at the sub (will be hooked up to the Rega Aethos' preouts (that's why the Yamaha is useless as it's for AV stuff)).
From what I have seen only BK do such subs (easily available at least). So really it's a question of which one?
If anyone knows of others that fit the bill do let me know for the comparison.

For what it's worth I already have a Yamaha sub which is down firing but bass reflex and very floppy. It has an AB amp that delivers 70W and where it is it delivers thunderous bass at 1/2 volume through the TV (the poor neighbours). N.B this is from joining left and right channels with an inversed splitter into the LFE entry). So I might not need that much 'power' so a sub with AB amplificaction would be nice.

I know many on here know the BK subs well so am looking for your advices, thanks.

N:B will add piccies and info later when I'm home (at work at the minute but thought I'd get things rolling.
 

Flobs

Active Member
Music. Allsorts from Punk to classical only Jazz hasn't been on my list but is starting to develop (oh and rap just prefer other stuff so much more).
I pass films and TV series through my stereo but find I am happy with that and makes up no more than 5% of my listening (Btw I had a cheapo AV system as a stop gap once, until lightning blew it up and I managed to repair my amp, a sony. still 90% of the time I listened to it in stereo. The only advantage i got was with DTS which is so stupid it's almost impossible to convert it to stereo correctly.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Whichever one you get they're all great value for money and the cabinets are well built.

The Gemini 2 and xls200 are great in a small to medium sized room. The Gem 2 is a little faster, the bass notes start and stop quicker with less overhang, but isn't as deep.

I currently have a Gem 2 and xxls400 and used to have the xls200. The xxls400 is basically a larger version of the xls200 and plays a little deeper and a lot heavier and bigger. I cant comment on the p12 or monoliths.

I reckon 2 Gemini 2s would make a great stereo set up for music. They go loud but doesn't play as deep. Not a problem depending on how deep your music is. They are not recommended for large rooms.

If you have the space and budget I think the xxls400 is a great allrounder. That said, the xls200 is very capable and Im sure you won't be disappointed with either.
 

Flobs

Active Member
Whichever one you get they're all great value for money and the cabinets are well built.

The Gemini 2 and xls200 are great in a small to medium sized room. The Gem 2 is a little faster, the bass notes start and stop quicker with less overhang, but isn't as deep.

I currently have a Gem 2 and xxls400 and used to have the xls200. The xxls400 is basically a larger version of the xls200 and plays a little deeper and a lot heavier and bigger. I cant comment on the p12 or monoliths.

I reckon 2 Gemini 2s would make a great stereo set up for music. They go loud but doesn't play as deep. Not a problem depending on how deep your music is. They are not recommended for large rooms.

If you have the space and budget I think the xxls400 is a great allrounder. That said, the xls200 is very capable and Im sure you won't be disappointed with either.
Thanks, my room is medium medium sized in volume. From what you say the Gemini would be too small for my purposes but great for my daughters set up in her bedroom.
Sounds like I'll be going the whole hog with the xxls400's to go with my amp and speakers.
Let's face it this is in place of buying new speakers for which I was possibly looking at 4000 euros so it's not the expense that's in question.
I do feel down firing is best for my room and placement posibilities also I have a preference for AB amps over D class. Which are 2 reasons BK appear to be the 'only' option. My speakers being transmission line mean the bass is tight so the main problem might just finding the sub with enough control tighness to the bass (I just don't have the experience of subs to know with the little Yamaha I have I more often than not plug the bass reflex port with a sock full of sand).
Still I do have to get those Spendor A7's and PMC 25 23i's auditionned before making a final decission.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
I think forward firing is more flexible as you can experiment with the driver facing different directions on the same spot.

The Gemini 2 is best avoided for movies in a large room or if you listen to music with a lot of deep bass.
 

Flobs

Active Member
The Gemini 2 is best avoided for movies in a large room or if you listen to music with a lot of deep bass.
Good to know I listen to Christine and the Queens quite often and Avril Lavigne when ever I feel my neigbour and his kids won't have their sleep disturbed (which isn't as often as you might imagine as I work nights). Might have to think more along the lines of the xls200 for my daughter as well. The Gemini is a lovely looking little thing though isn't it?

The sweet spot for a sub in my room really imposes down firing unless I point it inward or outward meaning the back panel becomes visible. Then there's the height, there again the sweet spot is very low so I'd end up with a miniscule driver and the box upsidedown. 🤣
 

password1

Distinguished Member
I actually prefer the design of the gem 2 as it has a lovely led digital display screen. The xls200 and xxls400 appear to be exactly the same amp plate, just more power in the 400. Despite its relatively low price, build quality of the cabinet is the same, they feel just as solid. I doubt you'll be disappointed whichever sealed BK sub you go for.
 

DrH

Well-known Member
The XXLS200 has the 10 inch driver with 200w
The XXLS400 has the 12 inch driver with 400w

I have the XXLS400 down firing and it really rocks, the bass drop in skater boi is quite something. My room used to be the garage so is 5m x 2.4 x 2.3m, so quite small. The 400 hardly gets warm
 

Flobs

Active Member
the bass drop in skater boi is quite something.
That's what I'm looking for, when I heard that on PMC twenty5 24i's my eyes poped out and mouth dropped open. My current speakers just don't go that low and the sudden stop at about 40Hz I guess is 'deafening'.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
@Flobs I'd also have a look at a BK Double Gem. - It has 2x 10" drivers stacked in 1 slim cabinet, That can be positioned both horizontally and vertically.


Very keenly priced too!
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
ur room is big, u need biggest u can get IMO for output and 2 of them.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
ur room is big, u need biggest u can get IMO for output and 2 of them.

It's for a music system, he doesn't need 100 subwoofers each of 1.21 gigawatts. Two XLS 200 or 400 will be more than sufficient.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
It's for a music system, he doesn't need 100 subwoofers each of 1.21 gigawatts. Two XLS 200 or 400 will be more than sufficient.
Everyone needs 100 subwoofers 1.21 gigawatts
 

Flobs

Active Member
ur room is big, u need biggest u can get IMO for output and 2 of them.
I have a sub sweet spot, 1/5 of the length of the longer of my room. I have a little 75W ported yamaha there hooked to the TV set at 50% output and it rocks the room. If I put it on full output it blows the roof of the house and makes all the stuff on the neighbours shelves fall off.
Yamaha YST-SW030, 20cm woofer.
IMG_20220128_105443.jpg

It's there to the left of the left speaker with a 5 litre bottle of water on it (so it doesn't jump up and down) but to hit the sweet spot the sub needs to be down throwing and no bigger than 60cm square in width and depth. It really is a perfect spot as it's against the 'back' wall and outside the speakers. The next sweet spot is where the TV stand starts and that's not moving as that would mean moving the speakers which are fine where they are.
You are correct that if I ignored sweet spots and went with front firers I would need some awesome sized monsters with mega D class amps.
 

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martin 39

Well-known Member
That's what I'm looking for, when I heard that on PMC twenty5 24i's my eyes poped out and mouth dropped open. My current speakers just don't go that low and the sudden stop at about 40Hz I guess is 'deafening'.
Not sure if this helps but my mate has the twenty5 24 pmc. He was thinking of going dual subs when moving to a cinema music system. I spoke to bk and rel about which subs. Two very different answers rel recommend two of there reference range at a very hi price and bk said just 2 bk 200 subs as they were quicker than the 400. In the end the bass is so good on the pmc he just went with twin svs2000 for film
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Whichever one you get they're all great value for money and the cabinets are well built.

The Gemini 2 and xls200 are great in a small to medium sized room. The Gem 2 is a little faster, the bass notes start and stop quicker with less overhang, but isn't as deep.

I currently have a Gem 2 and xxls400 and used to have the xls200. The xxls400 is basically a larger version of the xls200 and plays a little deeper and a lot heavier and bigger. I cant comment on the p12 or monoliths.

I reckon 2 Gemini 2s would make a great stereo set up for music. They go loud but doesn't play as deep. Not a problem depending on how deep your music is. They are not recommended for large rooms.

If you have the space and budget I think the xxls400 is a great allrounder. That said, the xls200 is very capable and Im sure you won't be disappointed with either.
Hi mate I was also thinking of upgrading my Cambridge minx to a BK xls200 down fire for my 2 ch audio as it has the high level inputs, do you know if this sub turns on and off when it detects a signal like my cambridge, I couldn't see any info on this on their website.
 

Flobs

Active Member
Not sure if this helps but my mate has the twenty5 24 pmc. He was thinking of going dual subs when moving to a cinema music system. I spoke to bk and rel about which subs. Two very different answers rel recommend two of there reference range at a very hi price and bk said just 2 bk 200 subs as they were quicker than the 400. In the end the bass is so good on the pmc he just went with twin svs2000 for film
Yes, it's a toss up the XXLS400 goes lower and is heavier (less lesting) and has 400W amp.
The XLS200 is faster.
I'm just going with one for music (if I want flappy bass I can plug the little Yamaha into the tele for films but not too bothered).
My current speakers go down to 45Hz so I'm looking to just fill in from 20Hz to 55Hz I'm not sure the sub needs to be that fast, just not flappy like a ported would be. BK seem to be the only manufacturer making down firing subs and they have a good reputation. I'll E-Mail them and see what they say.
I'm penching for the XXLS400 as I only want 1 and 'overkill' is better than being dissappointed. Positioning 2 would be really difficult as the wall behind me is plaster board and bass doesn't see it (which would mean having to put it under the stairs in a cuboard or something rediculous). It's not necessary anyway my room/house is such that bass boost isn't a problem once you find the sweet spots.

P.S I also have to impress my daughter so the bigger the better. lol
As for PMC I'm looking to audition the 25 23i's as the 24is mid bass driver is at 1/3 room height so would be horrible in my room and if I opt for them or the Spendor A7 I'll probably give the sub a miss as they both go so low anyway (they need to be good though as I really like the sound of my present speakers).
 
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rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Not sure if this helps but my mate has the twenty5 24 pmc. He was thinking of going dual subs when moving to a cinema music system. I spoke to bk and rel about which subs. Two very different answers rel recommend two of there reference range at a very hi price and bk said just 2 bk 200 subs as they were quicker than the 400. In the end the bass is so good on the pmc he just went with twin svs2000 for film

Bet rel told you to run your bookshelf speakers a large and use high level? Lol

Also not sure if someone asked about standby only the newer models have auto standby all the regular gemeni xls monolith are always on
 

martin 39

Well-known Member
Rel love a hi level and setting to large. But i suppose that dosent matter if only a 2ch amp with no settings. My mate did try a 212se trouble was it was the size of a under unit fridge in the frt room
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Hi mate I was also thinking of upgrading my Cambridge minx to a BK xls200 down fire for my 2 ch audio as it has the high level inputs, do you know if this sub turns on and off when it detects a signal like my cambridge, I couldn't see any info on this on their website.
I only owned an xls200 briefly a few years ago. so Im not able to check. However, from memory I don't think it has auto on / off. The amp plate looks the same or similar to an xxls400 which doesn't have the auto on /off. Im not sure if it can be fitted to an xls200, best to enquire with BK.

Someone with an xls200 may be able to confirm for you.
 

DrH

Well-known Member
The XXLS400 does not have auto on off.
Mine has been on constantly since 2010 with no issues.

Might have to reconsider with the price of electricity now though
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Might have to reconsider with the price of electricity now though
If you're serious with this comment. I'd consider plugging the sub into a smart adapter, such as this:

Kasa Mini Smart Plug by TP-Link, Wi-Fi Outlet, Works with Amazon Alexa(Echo and Echo Dot), Google Home and Samsung SmartThings, Wireless Smart Socket (KP105), A Certified for Humans Device Amazon product

I use these models to control lamps and lights on both fish tank & vivariums etc. They have built in timers too.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Im not sure how much power the xxls400 consumes when idle (my little Rel is 5 watts according to the manual) so it would be interesting to work out how long it would take to break even.

Im guessing the xxls400 uses more power as it's a less efficient class AB design, so maybe similar to leaving a couple of light bulbs on 24/7?
 

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