If in middle of 12 months contract & move to no-cabled area what happens?

MrMister111

Well-known Member
Hi

I currently have V+ XL TV, BB, and phone with Virgin, I'm out of 12month contract and so gonna phone up and try to get it all cheaper, or maybe BB upgraded for nothing. (dont want to pay anymore than am now)

However, I know with a new deal your tied in for 12months, so what happens if you move within this 12months into an area that is non cabled? do you have to pay up the contract? what happens? bit unfair if you do.


cheers
 

stevelup

Distinguished Member
I believe you would have to take their 'national' offering for broadband and phone. They will drop the TV part with no further payment.
 

def

Novice Member
I believe you would have to take their 'national' offering for broadband and phone. They will drop the TV part with no further payment.
No you don't. The terms of their national phone and BB are different to those on the cable network, so as they can't provide you with your original service you may cancel the contract with no penalty.
 

IIIGREGIII

Novice Member
No you don't. The terms of their national phone and BB are different to those on the cable network, so as they can't provide you with your original service you may cancel the contract with no penalty.

Def, if u mean you can cancel the contract with no penalty without taking 'national services' you're wrong/been misinformed.

If you are in a contract and move to a new property that hasn't got cable. To get around the EDF's (early disc fees) you would have to take out a new BT line at the new property (as VM cannot install this) and then have the National service (which is the ADSL BB + Tel calls). As you have TV that would just be disconnected (with no EDF's).

If you CHOOSE not to have VM National's service, then EDF's would apply. The maximum EDF to be applied is £120. Also, same applies if you move from cable home to cable home too, moving to the new property will renew a 12 month contract. (So if you move every 6 months - yes you technically will never be out of contract).

Hope this is clear and helpful.
 

MrMister111

Well-known Member
Def, if u mean you can cancel the contract with no penalty without taking 'national services' you're wrong/been misinformed.

If you are in a contract and move to a new property that hasn't got cable. To get around the EDF's (early disc fees) you would have to take out a new BT line at the new property (as VM cannot install this) and then have the National service (which is the ADSL BB + Tel calls). As you have TV that would just be disconnected (with no EDF's).

If you CHOOSE not to have VM National's service, then EDF's would apply. The maximum EDF to be applied is £120. Also, same applies if you move from cable home to cable home too, moving to the new property will renew a 12 month contract. (So if you move every 6 months - yes you technically will never be out of contract).

Hope this is clear and helpful.
err I think so, so if I just want to cancel then I have to pay £120 - is that for everything, ie all 3 services, TV, phone and BB.

If not I HAVE to get the national BB + telephone, what is this like? moneywise, service, speed etc? compared to Virgin cable and other BB out there now?

TBH If I move I would probably look at BT vison or Sky, as they have all 3 services so would look into that.

cheers
 

IIIGREGIII

Novice Member
Yeh the Max is £120. I think the way Relations do it is downgrade all three to the lowest service and from wat u got - tel/bb/dtv with v+ - that would be £25 per month so it would just be 6 months remaining times £25 so £125. But like I said £120 is the max you'd pay. So they let u off a fiver! Whoo hoo!

I do work for VM so if anyone wants to question what I've said let me know and I'll double check. But before posting these I have spoken to the relevant depts just to make sure.

Greg
 

IIIGREGIII

Novice Member
And also, I would recommend that if you do move to a non cable area to not go to BT vision (this is just my personal opinion) and contact Sky. But mention that you will have to pay EDF's to VM and ask if they can help you out at all for ur business. The reason I advise Sky is that if you are after a half decent TV package, and u cant get cable, get Sky. But that again is just may personal opinion.
 

stevelup

Distinguished Member
No you don't. The terms of their national phone and BB are different to those on the cable network, so as they can't provide you with your original service you may cancel the contract with no penalty.
I'm sorry but this is definitely not correct... It is as I stated - the TV is terminated without further cost and you are obliged to take out the 'national' services at your new address. If you do not do so, then you will have to pay an early contract termination fee.
 
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Johnboy_1975

Novice Member
You can get BB and Virgin phone calls through a BT landline? Didn't realise this.

Do you pay BT line rental - if so how are you expected to pay "line rental" to Virgin as well. I'd hope to cancel and pay nothing myself, especially if I had recently been on a rolling contract.

Is this enforced, or just theory/ worst case scenario??
 

IIIGREGIII

Novice Member
You can get BB and Virgin phone calls through a BT landline? Didn't realise this.

Do you pay BT line rental - if so how are you expected to pay "line rental" to Virgin as well. I'd hope to cancel and pay nothing myself, especially if I had recently been on a rolling contract.

Is this enforced, or just theory/ worst case scenario??

In answer to you're first question yes you can have service through a BT line. there's 5 packages (well 3 but 5 prices) first of all there's BB on it's own which is 'up to' 8Mbps and you get a wireless router. This cost's £18 per month. Then the other two bundles have two different prices. Firstly the same BB and evening and weekend calls (01/02 numbers only). This costs £16 per month or even £12 per month if you're in an LLU area (just means that VM have more control in the exchange so it's cheaper) Then the other option is to get free calls all the time and the BB for £19 per month and then £15 per month if you're in an LLU area.

So:

BB Solo (8Mbps) @ £18 (Non LLU + LLU)
TEW + BB @ £16 (Non LLU)
TEW + BB @ £12 (LLU)
TU + BB @ £19 (Non LLU)
TU + BB @ £15 (LLU)

And yes you do pay the BT line rental on top of all these prices.

Next, yes. This is enforced. I mean that's entirely why there's a contract. You cant exit a mobile contract without paying off the contract it's the same thing.
 

def

Novice Member
I'm sorry but this is definitely not correct... It is as I stated - the TV is terminated without further cost and you are obliged to take out the 'national' services at your new address. If you do not do so, then you will have to pay an early contract termination fee.
I am certain this isn't right. Your original contract with Virgin is for a phone, TV and Internet package delivered over their cable network. If you move to a non-cable area Virgin cannot force you to remain in your contract by failing to provide you with a TV service, mandating you take a further BT phone line, and offering a functionally different broadband service before you can continue with the Virgin service.

It's tantamount to a major change of terms and conditions, which you don't have to accept. For example, the national ADSL service is £18/month for up to 8mb, which is nothing close to the price and performance level of their on-net service.

I would take this to the Office of Fair Trading first - it's not legal just because Virgin customer service monkeys say it is.
 
S

Sadsak

Guest
A friend of mine was two thirds of the way through a 12 month VM contract, (TV, BB and Telephone) then moved house so had to cancel as moved to non-cable area and there was no charge from VM, they did not even try and make him pay anything. Perhaps he was a bit lucky?
 

Johnboy_1975

Novice Member
This is enforced. I mean that's entirely why there's a contract. You cant exit a mobile contract without paying off the contract it's the same thing.
and there was no charge from VM, they did not even try and make him pay anything
u pay jack, i was half way through my contract and was moving they cancelled my contract.
Annecdotal evidence is against you, not saying VM wouldn't try it on though..... Have you experienced this?
 

MrMister111

Well-known Member
So there seems to not be a definate answer then eh, sometimes you have to pay £120, other times not.

Its just thinking of phoning up for a better deal, but may move this year, but dont wanna pay for something not geting, even the £120 cancelation would**** me off, hate paying for something dont get
 
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Johnboy_1975

Novice Member
So there seems to not be a definate answer then eh, sometimes you have to pay £120, other times not.

Its just thinking of phoning up for a better deal, but may move this year, but dont wanna pay for something not geting, even the £120 cancelation would **** me off, hate paying for something dont get
Speak to retentions then and explain the situation to them (how certain are you that your new area will be non cable anyway?) and because of this you think its better to leave now - I am sure they will offer you a rolling deal, or will offer you a 12 month deal which they won't force you to stay on if you move to a non cabled area.

Thats what customer service is all about, I've usually been pleasantly surprised by NTL/VM :clap:
 
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Glenn Uk

Active Member
The first thing to do is to read your terms and conditions, i cannot read mine as i am away from home but i do know for a fact that VM adopts unfair pratices (unfair in a lelgal sense in respect of changes to your contract) which may not be refelcted in the contract so i would have no hesuitiation in quesiotning them about what they are entitled to do if necessary.

In respect of their unfair practices this is related to changes in level of service. The T&C specifically say if you ADD something to your package then you will have to enter into a new contract of 12 months.

The T&C say nothing about removing or downgrading your package or services and therefore they are not entinteld to imopose a new contract when you reduce or remove anything from your package.

I understand from Customer Services that the VM 'system' automaticllay thinks that when a customer changes anything in their package that a new 12 months contract is entered into.

Well at least the last paragrpah is anecdotal since i dont know if the system actually does or whether the agent automatically imposes this condition.

However, a couple of points abot consumer contracts.

1st of all if it is not in the contract then its extremely unlikey that a business could impose a term.

Secondly even if it is in there, if it is deemed to be unfair in terms of the unfair terms in consumer contract regs then it cannot be enforced.

As much as the esteemed member who works for VM has made statements based upon questions and answers from his colleagues; and with all due respect, id read the T&C and make my own mind up.

Incidentaly i am pretty certain that the T&C do contain reference to circumstances such as those outlined.

JMHO

Glenn
 

MrMister111

Well-known Member
Thanks.

Suppose I could phone and ask the situation, and what if I leave, but I know what will happen, you'll speak to some person and they'll say"oh dont worry you wont have to pay if you move etc etc, will make a note on account etc etc.." then when you come to move, its not on the account, they never said that, tough you gotta pay!!

The area looking at hasn't got cable, already done a postcode check
 

Glenn Uk

Active Member
Thanks.

Suppose I could phone and ask the situation, and what if I leave, but I know what will happen, you'll speak to some person and they'll say"oh dont worry you wont have to pay if you move etc etc, will make a note on account etc etc.." then when you come to move, its not on the account, they never said that, tough you gotta pay!!

The area looking at hasn't got cable, already done a postcode check
The most important thing in my view is to know what it says in your terms and conditions, if you dont then you are at the mercy of the person on the other end of the phone.

The person at the other end of the phone may know the terms and conditions, but in my experience its unlikley and they will tell you what they think rather than what the position is.

JMHO

Glenn
 

def

Novice Member
The most important thing in my view is to know what it says in your terms and conditions, if you dont then you are at the mercy of the person on the other end of the phone.

Exactly.

Here are Virgin's published T&Cs and product terms for their cable and national products:
Product Terms and Conditions (On Cable)

There is absolutely no mention in there of you being forced to take on a national product if you move out of a cable area. Actually the simple fact that they have separate T&C for cable and national services implictly means that they are two totally separate and non-equivalent products, and you can't be switched from one to the other.

This page actually states the difference when moving from cable to national:
Moving house: cable- Moving house - Customers - Virgin Media

What about my contract?

Don't worry about your old contract. You can simply start a new one when you get your National services.
There you go then!
 

IIIGREGIII

Novice Member
So there seems to not be a definate answer then eh, sometimes you have to pay £120, other times not.

It's not that if you canx you pay £120. If you have just the Phone, TV and BB and only have 2 months left VM would put you onto the smallest package which would be £20 per month and settle that. So 2 months x £20 = £40 EDF. It's the remaining rental or £120 - whichever is the smaller. I do think however if it's less than £50 and towards the end of the term there's an unwritten rule that it can be forgotton about.

It's not really something that you can go to Fair Trading about becuase you're in a contract that you've agreed. Even if you havn't signed anything if you've had services from a company for more than 3 months you're bound by they're terms and cond. As I understand it anyway - correct if I'm wrong.
 

Glenn Uk

Active Member
It's not that if you canx you pay £120. If you have just the Phone, TV and BB and only have 2 months left VM would put you onto the smallest package which would be £20 per month and settle that. So 2 months x £20 = £40 EDF. It's the remaining rental or £120 - whichever is the smaller. I do think however if it's less than £50 and towards the end of the term there's an unwritten rule that it can be forgotton about.

It's not really something that you can go to Fair Trading about becuase you're in a contract that you've agreed. Even if you havn't signed anything if you've had services from a company for more than 3 months you're bound by they're terms and cond. As I understand it anyway - correct if I'm wrong.
If a contract or a term within it is deemed to be legally unfair you cannot be bound by it. So you are correct if the term is legal then you can be bound, however, simply having a term in a contract does not in itself make it a binding term.

The Unfair Terms in consumer Contracts Regulations are designed to prevent businesses imposing unfair terms on consumers, accordingly the law in this respect is biased towards the consumer.

If a term is not in the contract then it cannot be enforced either, so if the contract doesn't deal with a situation then the company cannot simply impose a term on the consumer.

I do not have the time to read through all the T&Cs for the OP to find out if he/she is in fact bound, if however the relevant term or terms are not in there then they dont have to pay. If they are then its probalbe they will have to pay, the example i used of VM unfair practices relates to the automatic application of a 12 month contract for changes to levles of service as opposed to taking new services.

HTH

Glenn
 

def

Novice Member
It's not really something that you can go to Fair Trading about becuase you're in a contract that you've agreed.
If you're a cable customer you haven't agreed to purchase a BT line install just to get a different product to the one you signed a contract for. The onus is on VM to provide you with the service you purchased - if they cannot, the contract is void. Remember, contracts work in two directions: you are obliged to pay for the service, but VM is also obliged to provide it.

I'd take it to OFT before even considering paying them a penny.
 
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IIIGREGIII

Novice Member
Ok all sounds valid. But one thing I DO know. VM will hold that debt against you for years (15+) and it may stop you from getting services in the future.

It will be 'written off' and they may not chase you for it but if you want services in the future they will ask you to pay it. Even at a new property!

There may be a way you can get around this.

As Glenn said, if it's a change of service then there may be a way to get out of the new contract but if you get new services and canx within that 12 months surely even the OFT would advise you're bound by it.

I understand what you mean about VM providing a service as originally agreed and as you said its a two way street but surely because you're the one that moved into a non cable area it's you that changed the circumstances first.

I'm just trying to look at all the angles here cos I don't think its that bad a thing. I mean Vmobile have just started doing wireless BB and if you take the £15 per month pack with a 3Gb download (it's an 18 month contract) and canx after 5 months you have to settle the remaining months @ £15 so £195! Would you argue with this? I just think its unusual that VM 'cap' the EDF which is in you're favour.
 

def

Novice Member
Ok all sounds valid. But one thing I DO know. VM will hold that debt against you for years (15+) and it may stop you from getting services in the future.

It will be 'written off' and they may not chase you for it but if you want services in the future they will ask you to pay it. Even at a new property!
That's not legal either. If they don't take action to collect a debt it amounts to an unregulated, unauthorised credit agreement, which is illegal.

Virgin can of course decline to provide you with a service for an undisclosed reason, but there is no way they can silently hold a random charge against you for "15+ years" then demand you pay it.


I understand what you mean about VM providing a service as originally agreed and as you said its a two way street but surely because you're the one that moved into a non cable area it's you that changed the circumstances first.
No, you're looking at this the wrong way round. You haven't signed a contract with Virgin that states "I will not move home to a non-cable area for the duration of my contract", and even if you did it would be deemed unenforceable. You've signed a contract for a cable TV, Phone and BB service for 12 months. If Virgin are capable of providing you with that service you are obliged to see out the contract term. If they are not capable, you are not obliged to pay a penalty. The reverse of this is exactly why there's a clause in the Virgin contract that says Virgin are allowed to cancel your services and not pay you compensation.


[
I'm just trying to look at all the angles here cos I don't think its that bad a thing. I mean Vmobile have just started doing wireless BB and if you take the £15 per month pack with a 3Gb download (it's an 18 month contract) and canx after 5 months you have to settle the remaining months @ £15 so £195!
It's a different situation, as described above. You can receive that mobile service anywhere in the UK, so as long as Virgin provide it and you're capable of receiving it you have to see out the contract term.

However if you were to move abroad, even to a country that has a roaming agreement, you could still exit the contract mid-term because Virgin would be unable to provide the service you signed up for. You could probably even cancel it if you moved to one of those little Scottish islands that have about 3 sheep and no mobile reception.

Anyone who has emigrated can tell you that they simply got all their contracts cancelled.
 

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