If I swap Anthem AVM60 over a Yamaha RX-A 3070 what a I missing/gaining?

dms

Active Member
Since I set up my active speakers (F/L/R) my Yamaha RX-A 3070 has been bothering me for two reasons. Firstly I'm using RCA->XLR adaptors (obviously unbalanced) over a run up to 15m which is far beyond the manufacturer's recommendation and secondly the room correction on the Yamaha is... primitive and doesn't adjust the bass at all.

I should probably say I'm very happy with the sound of my system and films with decent sound tracks do sound absolutely great... so not having heard differently it may be the case what I have is absolutely fine and I've just suffering the dreaded AV itch! The only evidence I have of anything being amiss is that if the speakers are on and the receiver is off then there is a lot of noise produced by the speakers which goes instantly when the receiver is turned on even with no actual output. If there is no XLR cable in the speaker it doesn't make this noise. As I don't know better I assume that is some form of interference.

For the room correction I used the YPAO and then did the bass and very high frequency myself (simply adjusted down a bit), I could try harder with REW but I find it frustrating frankly and the limitations of the PEQ on the Yamaha are all too obvious. Then again as I say it does sound great to me ;-)

Looking at "affordable" processors the Anthem AVM60 stands out in that is appears to have truely balanced XLR. I say that because Anthem say so on their website ;-) but also because I have seen other processors in this price bracket either criticised in reviews for not being truely balanced and not outputting pro levels (e.g. homecinema review of Arcam AV860 ) ; or because processors I've passed my uncle has been criticised for the same reasons when he's checked the specs (e.g. Yamaha CX-A 5200). Also the Anthem's ARC seems well regarded.

In theory I could move my receiver or new processor to be near my speakers and use a very short RCA->XLR run. In that case I'd have to run getting on a 20m HDMI cable through trunking with 90 degree turns with cables for the rear speakers (standard speaker wire) of 20M and roughly 25m. I'm not sure that is a better option. Also I don't like the idea of converting the unbalanced RCA->XLR output of the Yamaha to balanced using another bit of kit, I'd prefer to keep the number of units down.

Obviously I'm happy for any guidance but I'm aware the AVM60 is an older (2015/2016) model than my Yamaha (2017/2018) and so I'm a bit worried about "missing out" on any features I already have especially in regards of any HDMI performance or handshaking issues. I pretty much use nothing from the Yamaha apart from input select, standard straight DSP, and very occasionally streaming music from my PC via Windows "send to". I'm using an Xbox, Panasonic 820, PC and a Sony 760 4k projector (so HDR10, no double vision). I don't care for 8k for >60fps because I don't play the lottery and don't want to replace the projector unless it's forced on me!

I don't know anything about Anthem but the avsforums owners thread's recent posts are all people having HDCP handshake issues or worse (DoA units), I know if you google any product you'll find people with problems but it's a bad sign. Also it's interesting seeing comments by people who went from a Yamaha to an Anthem (random reviews on resellers websites) with both positive and negative opinions based on the "Yamaha sound".

Also I've seen one large AV firm offers a 2 week try-at-home service for £100 for this Anthem model which seems a very sensible proposition but given I'm in Hertfordshire I should probably look around for a local firm which may offer a more personal service.

Also given Blackfriday is on the horizon and it's an old model I'm certainly not jumping out to pay full RRP right now! I've seen one shop offering it £700 below others but I've not made contact with them.
 

barnitto

Active Member
As someone who has recently moved from Marantz to Anthem, I don’t think you will be missing any ‘features’. The room correction on the Anthem is simply better, and is easy to use.

the only thing I do notice with the Anthem Is that it is slightly slower in switching sources and on and off, but nothing major.

it is likely to sound different, whether or not you prefer it is only something you can answer. You seem to have a long history with Yamaha and it may take some time to adjust to a new sound.

in my case the the Anthem does sound different to Marantz and there are both positives and negatives.
 

dms

Active Member
How long is "longer"? My system is pretty slow to switch sources and I've always assumed this it to do with 4k and the projector to be honest as switching used to be very quick with 1080p material.

You're right though unless the delay is unreasonably long it's not an issue as the only time I ever really need to change quickly is when doing a dvd (old player) vs bluray (xbox) vs 4k (panasonic) demonstration which isn't that often and not at all during the lockdown!

Long history with Yamaha yes... I've only ever had them for home cinema and it's been over 20 years.
 

barnitto

Active Member
A few seconds longer, the Marantz was pretty instant.
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
Since I set up my active speakers (F/L/R) my Yamaha RX-A 3070 has been bothering me for two reasons. Firstly I'm using RCA->XLR adaptors (obviously unbalanced) over a run up to 15m which is far beyond the manufacturer's recommendation and secondly the room correction on the Yamaha is... primitive and doesn't adjust the bass at all.

I should probably say I'm very happy with the sound of my system and films with decent sound tracks do sound absolutely great... so not having heard differently it may be the case what I have is absolutely fine and I've just suffering the dreaded AV itch! The only evidence I have of anything being amiss is that if the speakers are on and the receiver is off then there is a lot of noise produced by the speakers which goes instantly when the receiver is turned on even with no actual output. If there is no XLR cable in the speaker it doesn't make this noise. As I don't know better I assume that is some form of interference.

For the room correction I used the YPAO and then did the bass and very high frequency myself (simply adjusted down a bit), I could try harder with REW but I find it frustrating frankly and the limitations of the PEQ on the Yamaha are all too obvious. Then again as I say it does sound great to me ;-)

Looking at "affordable" processors the Anthem AVM60 stands out in that is appears to have truely balanced XLR. I say that because Anthem say so on their website ;-) but also because I have seen other processors in this price bracket either criticised in reviews for not being truely balanced and not outputting pro levels (e.g. homecinema review of Arcam AV860 ) ; or because processors I've passed my uncle has been criticised for the same reasons when he's checked the specs (e.g. Yamaha CX-A 5200). Also the Anthem's ARC seems well regarded.

In theory I could move my receiver or new processor to be near my speakers and use a very short RCA->XLR run. In that case I'd have to run getting on a 20m HDMI cable through trunking with 90 degree turns with cables for the rear speakers (standard speaker wire) of 20M and roughly 25m. I'm not sure that is a better option. Also I don't like the idea of converting the unbalanced RCA->XLR output of the Yamaha to balanced using another bit of kit, I'd prefer to keep the number of units down.

Obviously I'm happy for any guidance but I'm aware the AVM60 is an older (2015/2016) model than my Yamaha (2017/2018) and so I'm a bit worried about "missing out" on any features I already have especially in regards of any HDMI performance or handshaking issues. I pretty much use nothing from the Yamaha apart from input select, standard straight DSP, and very occasionally streaming music from my PC via Windows "send to". I'm using an Xbox, Panasonic 820, PC and a Sony 760 4k projector (so HDR10, no double vision). I don't care for 8k for >60fps because I don't play the lottery and don't want to replace the projector unless it's forced on me!

I don't know anything about Anthem but the avsforums owners thread's recent posts are all people having HDCP handshake issues or worse (DoA units), I know if you google any product you'll find people with problems but it's a bad sign. Also it's interesting seeing comments by people who went from a Yamaha to an Anthem (random reviews on resellers websites) with both positive and negative opinions based on the "Yamaha sound".

Also I've seen one large AV firm offers a 2 week try-at-home service for £100 for this Anthem model which seems a very sensible proposition but given I'm in Hertfordshire I should probably look around for a local firm which may offer a more personal service.

Also given Blackfriday is on the horizon and it's an old model I'm certainly not jumping out to pay full RRP right now! I've seen one shop offering it £700 below others but I've not made contact with them.

I changed from a Denon with all the latest bells and whistles to the AVM60 and Anthem sounds so much better, the only thing that annoys me with the Anthem is the app as it's a pain to get it connected on wifi.

Other than that its a great piece of kit and can be purchased with some decent discounts.
 

dms

Active Member
I changed from a Denon with all the latest bells and whistles to the AVM60 and Anthem sounds so much better, the only thing that annoys me with the Anthem is the app as it's a pain to get it connected on wifi.

Other than that its a great piece of kit and can be purchased with some decent discounts.

Most places seem to advertise it for £3.3k or are you saying it will go for less than that?
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
Most places seem to advertise it for £3.3k or are you saying it will go for less than that?

May go a little lower but I was happy to pay more when I got mine.
 

barnitto

Active Member
AVM60 can be picked up for a lot less if you look around
 

callahan

Active Member
I have had my AVM60 for a few years now and am looking to move it on soon and upgrade to the next level, but I think I can answer your HDMI fears.
The only issue I have is when switching from TV (4k) to projector (1080p) because the handshake doesn't seem to like it. The AVM60 is only passing through the signal but just doesn't seem to like both displays being connected.
There are two fixes to this: one - I just unplug the hdmi from my TV before I turn the AVM60 on if I'm going to use the projector; two - get a 'one in, two out' HDMI switch so you're only taking one output from the AVM60 and then splitting it. I've heard the Pulse Eight switch recommended for this but never got round to it.
I absolutely love my AVM60 and ARC Genesis is the easiest to use room correction software out there and one of the best. I would recommend the upgrade wholeheartedly ( I just have an itch for a Trinnov, or maybe Acurus, or Storm ;) )
 

dms

Active Member
I have had my AVM60 for a few years now and am looking to move it on soon and upgrade to the next level, but I think I can answer your HDMI fears.
The only issue I have is when switching from TV (4k) to projector (1080p) because the handshake doesn't seem to like it. The AVM60 is only passing through the signal but just doesn't seem to like both displays being connected.
There are two fixes to this: one - I just unplug the hdmi from my TV before I turn the AVM60 on if I'm going to use the projector; two - get a 'one in, two out' HDMI switch so you're only taking one output from the AVM60 and then splitting it. I've heard the Pulse Eight switch recommended for this but never got round to it.
I absolutely love my AVM60 and ARC Genesis is the easiest to use room correction software out there and one of the best. I would recommend the upgrade wholeheartedly ( I just have an itch for a Trinnov, or maybe Acurus, or Storm ;) )

My projector is 4k, so is the Xbox but my PC does various resolutions so I don't know if that would make a difference and frankly it's a good reason why I should get a home demo or other form of trial. I couldn't cope with having to unplug cables or a switch I'm afraid!

In a perfect world (well ok it wouldn't have to be perfect, I'd just be loaded) I'd try a Trinnov. There is a local dealer who would even demo me a unit if we thought I'd actually buy it ;-)
 

callahan

Active Member
Do you have a TV as well? If not you'll be fine. If you do and it is also 4k you'll be fine. The only issue I have is because of the different resolutions of my (ancient) projector and new TV, the sources don't matter.

This is the type of switch I was recommended: neo 1x2 HDMI Splitter - Pulse-Eight - Ultra HD Distribution and Control Products - as far as I can see it is just 'fit and forget' and I'm sure there will be cheaper options too.
 

dms

Active Member
Do you have a TV as well? If not you'll be fine. If you do and it is also 4k you'll be fine. The only issue I have is because of the different resolutions of my (ancient) projector and new TV, the sources don't matter.

This is the type of switch I was recommended: neo 1x2 HDMI Splitter - Pulse-Eight - Ultra HD Distribution and Control Products - as far as I can see it is just 'fit and forget' and I'm sure there will be cheaper options too.

No I've no tv. Not had one for about 20 years! I did have a 28inch wide-screen once.... it felt huge.
 

callahan

Active Member
I wouldn't worry about it at all then, I have zero issues if I'm just using TV. I think it's the best sounding processor at the price, you need to take a significant step up in price to improve on it. I know, I've been looking!
 

dms

Active Member
I simply can't find anything useful on what "True-balance" in the Anthem AVM60 actually means in comparison with the competitors. The only advice I've had from a hifi/tech nut is "it's marketingspiel and it's not professional grade gear". The closest I myself got was a passing reference to other processors just having a XLR socket which wasn't actually wired up on all three connectors. If that's the case the socket/connector isn't actually balanced at all and I don't believe a respectable firm in the industry which I would likely buy from would incorrectly market something as balanced.

If that's the case, which seems likely to be honest, I've no particular reason to go for the Anthem and it's age does put me off.

I'll sleep on it but if I see a new or second hand one for "too good to miss" I might make the plunge as it's still tempting for the balanced XLR out and ARC which I know will make a difference. Also frankly it would be good not to have a huge great amp producing noise and burning power next to me when I'm not using it for anything other than driving two Mission 77ds!

Otherwise clearly I need to go with a home demo which would make the most sense, but sadly that does make it hard to justify getting a second hand unit which may crop up now-and-again.
 

callahan

Active Member
I have no way of testing it but I have always believed that the AVM60 is a true balanced layout and I have certainly always run it that way in my system.

One thing to bear in mind when talking about the age of the AVM60 - when it launched it was using ARC2 correction, which was a good system. Somewhere along the line Anthem released ARC Genesis which is a massive improvement over ARC2 in terms of capability, but also in terms of speed and ease of use. The best companies will continue to support their product with software updates for as long as they can so even an 'older' design can still have the latest features.
 

callahan

Active Member
Fair point about auro3d, although I'm not sure if it's a huge loss as a format even though it does sound good.

HDMI 2.1 is a hardware upgrade though and still a bit of a moot point as very little (if anything) supports it yet.
 

dms

Active Member
I've not used auro 3d before and my projector won't have hdmi 2.1 do no loss on those points.
 

dms

Active Member
Otherwise clearly I need to go with a home demo which would make the most sense, but sadly that does make it hard to justify getting a second hand unit which may crop up now-and-again.

Going to test out an Arcam AV40 which I have on loan for the next week...
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
Auro3d isn't a format it's a digital sound process afaik like lexicon logic 7

It's both. Just a shame there's not been more content released encoded with it. The Auromatic Upmixer on the other hand can be used with pretty much everything apart from DTS:X.

There's two upmixer options on my Marantz. Auro3D (which uses Heights) and Auro2D for just the base layer. These sound far better to me than Dolby Surround and DTS Neural X.
 

dms

Active Member
Did.really badly on av science

Yes I saw that. The problem with av science is that every single review I read on there leaves me with the impressive the processors are rubbish ;-)

He (is it a he?), the reviewer in any case does say that subjectively it should sound good with Dirac. Frankly though I'll do some scientific tests the main bulk of what I'm looking for is subjective.
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member
Yes I saw that. The problem with av science is that every single review I read on there leaves me with the impressive the processors are rubbish ;-)
He did at least like my Nad power amp so I should feel very honoured :D

Having Moved from a Yamaha 3080 to the AVM60 I’m so far delighted with the upgrade. People talk about upgrading the speakers or treating the room for better sound but in this case changing the electronics alone has massively helped. The HDMI switching is also better for the record.
 

dms

Active Member
Finished testing the Arcam AV40.

In a nut shell... don't like the Arcam and it wasn't reliable, using XLR connects didn't improve anything over what I had.

I had 1.4 firmware from memory, in any case it was current when I tested it. Issues I experienced were ones I hadn't heard other people reporting (no sound from speakers, or incredibly low level output, audio stream not recognised from bluray player) and have never had with my Yamaha or system before.

To be fair Dirac was great but all it did was make the system sound just like my existing system (which admittedly took me a lot of REW work and frustration)... but my system sounds good they way I have it.
 

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