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If I do nothing wrong ....

paulyoung666

Distinguished Member
... then why should I fear being observed by CCTV , I would rather there were cameras everywhere to try and catch people before atrocities like the recent event in Paris happen , thoughts please , and can we keep it civil and constructive , thanks ....
 

wiz

Distinguished Member
..but do you really want other people knowing your business even though you mean no harm?
 

IronGiant

Moderator
@OP The main objection is that it's an erosion of civil liberties. Would you object if GCHQ took over your web cams just to ensure you weren't up to no good in your house?
I don't think we need cameras everywhere, but i don't object to areas where crimes are known to occur being covered, just as I don't object to speed cameras at accident blackspots.
 

=adrian=

Distinguished Member
All cameras do is record crime. They don't "catch people". Most times when an operator sends police to the spot everybody are long gone.

On serious note. Where would you draw the line? You seem happy with cameras recording you. What about the police / gov going through your texts, emails, saving your internet history and letting all that data to be checked by whoever wants. What about installing cameras in your home? What about having to actively prove you are a good citizen, instead of "innocent until proven guilty" - "guilty until proven innocent"?

We are not all terrorists. We are citizens who want to live their live with dignity. Why should I allow everybody to know everything about my life just to prove I'm innocent? This is madness.

Right now, it actually all works as the terrorists want. Every citizen now is a suspect. This leads nowhere else than to mass paranoia.

And last, who watches the watchers?
 

Inferno

Distinguished Member
@OP The main objection is that it's an erosion of civil liberties. Would you object if GCHQ took over your web cams just to ensure you weren't up to no good in your house?
I don't think we need cameras everywhere, but i don't object to areas where crimes are known to occur being covered, just as I don't object to speed cameras at accident blackspots.

I too have no problems with CCTV watching what is occurring outside as I have nothing to hide and as long as they do not start going all Big Brother on us and doing as IG says above about teh webcams in your own home, but i have none of them.
 

LiamHD

Active Member
I really don't like the thought of some ned getting himself of to a nice shot of me undressing at night or watching me slurp my morning coffee and sleep instead of work at the office. Nanny State bullsh*t is on the increase unfortunately and David Cameron and his goons can piss off with there "filter this " and "watch that" nonsense. Acting in the name of protecting the people. They are reading our emails and tapping our phones in the name of "stopping terrorism" when really the biggest terrorists are themselves.
It won't be long before the government try and implement something similar to the new bond film.
It sounds ridiculous but it's not far off I tell you.

Terrorism is a lot closer to home than you think and those involved are the ones supposedly "protecting" you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Det

Distinguished Member
I really don't like the thought of some ned getting himself of to a nice shot of me undressing at night or watching me slurp my morning coffee and sleep instead of work at the office. Nanny State bullpoop is on the increase unfortunately and David Cameron and his goons can piss off with there "filter this " and "watch that" nonsense. Acting in the name of protecting the people. They are reading our emails and tapping our phones in the name of "stopping terrorism" when really the biggest terrorists are themselves. It won't be long before the government try and implement something similar to the new bond film. It sounds ridiculous but it's not far off I tell you.

Terrorism is a lot closer to home than you think and those involved are the ones supposedly "protecting" you.
I also think that maybe some of you are potentially a bit tin foil hat about it.

More likely they have computer programs that trigger based on keywords before they get sent to some analyst to read through to determine intent. Then for video they probably run a series of facial recognition and other various computer programs before, again, it gets sent to some analyst. I doubt anyone would actually ever view your sipping your morning coffee.

If the gov had to monitor every single video feed (including private webcams, kinect, et al... then there is NO way they would be able to afford it. Billions of texts and emails and crap sent every day... it's just not gonna happen.

I think Google, MS, and Apple are the biggest nanny states out there that everyone overlooks. The amount of info they have logged is ridiculous.
 

=adrian=

Distinguished Member
I also think that maybe some of you are potentially a bit tin foil hat about it.

More likely they have computer programs that trigger based on keywords before they get sent to some analyst to read through to determine intent. Then for video they probably run a series of facial recognition and other various computer programs before, again, it gets sent to some analyst. I doubt anyone would actually ever view your sipping your morning coffee.

If the gov had to monitor every single video feed (including private webcams, kinect, et al... then there is NO way they would be able to afford it. Billions of texts and emails and crap sent every day... it's just not gonna happen.

I think Google, MS, and Apple are the biggest nanny states out there that everyone overlooks. The amount of info they have logged is ridiculous.
The problem is that if they want, they can produce all the data about you, every single text message you sent and received, all emails, your browsing history, etc. All of that is there sitting on some server, ready for whoever wants for whatever reason. It's there, forever. Just because there is a tiny chance that you or me might be a terrorist.

It is a ridiculous approach, treat everybody as a terrorist just to catch a few. And they can't even catch the few, as recent and previous events showed. They spend billions to come up with the ever newest way of spying on us and tell us there is not enough for NHS or schools, etc.
 

Member 55145

Distinguished Member
Trust me, they are far too busy to be spying on you.
However, if you do something to bring yourself to their attention, then they will access everything past and present.

It's a PITA at the best of times sifting through all the data, so unless you got a nice rack you won't get a second look.
 

LiamHD

Active Member
I also think that maybe some of you are potentially a bit tin foil hat about it.

More likely they have computer programs that trigger based on keywords before they get sent to some analyst to read through to determine intent. Then for video they probably run a series of facial recognition and other various computer programs before, again, it gets sent to some analyst. I doubt anyone would actually ever view your sipping your morning coffee.

If the gov had to monitor every single video feed (including private webcams, kinect, et al... then there is NO way they would be able to afford it. Billions of texts and emails and crap sent every day... it's just not gonna happen.

I think Google, MS, and Apple are the biggest nanny states out there that everyone overlooks. The amount of info they have logged is ridiculous.

It's the government. They do whatever they want, whenever they want. The Intel they could achieve by logging everyone would be amazing to them. The U.K's increasing ties and relationship with China is worrying for this reason.
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member

Det

Distinguished Member
The problem is that if they want, they can produce all the data about you, every single text message you sent and received, all emails, your browsing history, etc. All of that is there sitting on some server, ready for whoever wants for whatever reason. It's there, forever. Just because there is a tiny chance that you or me might be a terrorist.

It is a ridiculous approach, treat everybody as a terrorist just to catch a few. And they can't even catch the few, as recent and previous events showed. They spend billions to come up with the ever newest way of spying on us and tell us there is not enough for NHS or schools, etc.
So?

What will they find out? That I'm some random joe shmoe that's funny as ****? Even if they did have access to all that there is no way they could provide it in a court setting. Hell, even Hillary got away with evil deeds because she had her techs wipe her email, and there were some big hitters gunning for her. If this was a reality then there is a good chance she wouldn't have gotten away with it.

I just don't believe it exists yet. At least not to the level that people are worried about. If it does, then I think it would only be utilized for terrorist incidents and/or treason. Any criminal proceedings there is no way in hell because it is a violation of civil rights. When terrorism and treason are involved your civil rights go out the door.
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
Does massive CCTV surveillance stop crime or does it just help catch criminals?. And Paris is not a good example because the perps didn't give a damn about getting caught because it was a suicide mission.

Is ordinary crime less prevelant or is the clear up rate better in London? ( I really don't know)
 
D

Deleted member 498601

Guest
I find this an interesting topic whenever it's raised - and it is raised often. My opinion of being recorded, whether that's browser history, walking down the street on CCTV, texts or whatever, is that I don't care who watches me. I really don't.

My ego is not big, and I honestly don't think that I'm so interesting that on a planet of 7 billion, I'm going to be singled out by anyone at GCHQ, the NSA, the CIA, James Bond, or Jason Bourne.

People in this country bang on about our 'civil liberties being eroded' and other such nonsense. If you really believe that our civil liberties are so bad, spend 5 minutes talking to someone that comes from, well, throw a dart at a map of the middle east, and take your pick.

We have an amazing amount of freedom in this country, we take it for granted every day and we will continue to enjoy it. A bit like hot and cold running water, electricity, heating, television and so on. Poor old Brits. We're so hard done by...Sierra Leone or Iraq looks like a much better deal - at least they don't get watched when they're buying their lottery tickets in Waitrose, lucky bastards.
 

RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
All cameras do is record crime. They don't "catch people".
Here's a case solved almost entirely by CCTV:

Cowardly killer stabbed City worker to death trying to get revenge on wrong man

When the attack took place, all of the offenders were masked/hooded. But by backtracking their movements through a network of CCTV, police were able to reach a point were the murderer had withdrawn cash from an ATM. The camera on the ATM captured his image clearly & the timestamp used to confirm his account details & so ID.
 
D

Deleted member 498601

Guest
Here's a case solved almost entirely by CCTV:

Cowardly killer stabbed City worker to death trying to get revenge on wrong man

When the attack took place, all of the offenders were masked/hooded. But by backtracking their movements through a network of CCTV, police were able to reach a point were the murderer had withdrawn cash from an ATM. The camera on the ATM captured his image clearly & the timestamp used to confirm his account details & so ID.

That may be so. But I take umbrage at the fact* that last weekend, there was some fat guy, eating pizza on night shift at the police CCTV control centre, watching me walk down Poole High street, strutting my stuff, singing 'You can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk' at approx 01:37 hrs. That's infringing on my civil liberties that is.



*not a fact at all.
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
Here's a case solved almost entirely by CCTV:

Cowardly killer stabbed City worker to death trying to get revenge on wrong man

When the attack took place, all of the offenders were masked/hooded. But by backtracking their movements through a network of CCTV, police were able to reach a point were the murderer had withdrawn cash from an ATM. The camera on the ATM captured his image clearly & the timestamp used to confirm his account details & so ID.
That's not to say that this crime wouldn't have been solved had there been no CCTV though.
After all, the Hatton Garden robbers were all masked. Were they caught because of CCTV?
 

=adrian=

Distinguished Member
I find this an interesting topic whenever it's raised - and it is raised often. My opinion of being recorded, whether that's browser history, walking down the street on CCTV, texts or whatever, is that I don't care who watches me. I really don't.

My ego is not big, and I honestly don't think that I'm so interesting that on a planet of 7 billion, I'm going to be singled out by anyone at GCHQ, the NSA, the CIA, James Bond, or Jason Bourne.

People in this country bang on about our 'civil liberties being eroded' and other such nonsense. If you really believe that our civil liberties are so bad, spend 5 minutes talking to someone that comes from, well, throw a dart at a map of the middle east, and take your pick.

We have an amazing amount of freedom in this country, we take it for granted every day and we will continue to enjoy it. A bit like hot and cold running water, electricity, heating, television and so on. Poor old Brits. We're so hard done by...Sierra Leone or Iraq looks like a much better deal - at least they don't get watched when they're buying their lottery tickets in Waitrose, lucky bastards.
Again, where do you draw the line. If you are happy now, you will be happy with CCTV cameras in your house too. C'mon, you have nothing to hide. Or do you?
 

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