If House's patients were at Birmingham's Selly Oak Hospital...

Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
they'd all be dead.
I mean honestly, House's patients have the weirdest, obscurest problems that they manage to fix.
My father in law had a bleed in the brain and the doctors at Selley Oak just starved him to death.
Can we trust the national health service to do the best for us any more?
I think emigration has to be an option. For health reasons if not the politics, the immigration, the weather, the standard of living, the education, the policing and the religious nutters.
 
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kopchoir

Banned
Stuart,
firstly sorry to hear about your father in law
without knowing all the facts and not to pry what might seem one thing to an untrained eye is a completely different perspective to others.

I know the NHS has its faults but it is the best health care system in the world IMO some people are incredibly lucky to have the financial luxury of going private, doctors at a drop of a hat 1 2 1 nursing care but the majority of the country dont have this luxury.
As for doing a flit i made a thead on here stating the country has gone to pot sometime ago and im hoping to jump on the next available plane when the time is right for me and my family, but if you look at the state of the helath service now and say 10 years ago its a much better scene much better funded and patients much better informed.

Again sorry to hear about your father in law

Si:smashin:
 

John Simon

Well-known Member
they'd all be dead.
I mean honestly, House's patients have the weirdest, obscurest problems that they manage to fix.
My father in law had a bleed in the brain and the doctors at Selley Oak just starved him to death.
Can we trust the national health service to do the best for us any more?
I think emigration has to be an option. For health reasons if not the politics, the immigration, the weather, the standard of living, the education, the policing and the religious nutters.

Stuart,

Its not just Selley Oak, I'm sure you're aware what's been going on at Stafford NHS Hospital. Looking at last nights Shropshire Star I see this Council criticises Princess Royal Hospital, Telford : Shropshire Star:

Between us we have covered most of the hospitals in our area so the answer to your question should be no we can't trust the NHS to do the best for us but 3 members of my family have been fortunate to have successful surgery by the NHS in the last 12 months.
 

Kieron

Distinguished Member
Sorry to hear your sad news Stuart.
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
Can we trust the national health service to do the best for us any more?

No. But the big hospitals around the Midlands do seem worse than most. SWMBO's aunt went in to have a benign tumour removed from her leg. Then a few days later had half the leg removed. Then the rest of the leg. Then her life went the same way. Pointless, absolutely pointless.

,

I know the NHS has its faults but it is the best health care system in the world

It may be good value for money and perhaps the most equitable, but the French pay much more for their health services and they are so much better. But the NHS is a long way from being the best.
 

JUS

Well-known Member
Sorry to hear your news Stuart. I have very little confidence in them. I would guess the problem is funding. Not having the money to do all the needed tests (unlike House and the US health insurance situation).

My friend broke his leg playing football and came out of hospital with MRSI. 2 years on he's still on strong antibiotics, having surgery and still can't walk properly. He is in his late 30's!! It's sickening.

I worry for my father who's going in for heart surgery soon. I'm not only asking myself whether they are going to do it in time, whether they are going to botch the job but what other ailment is he going to come out of the hospital with :rolleyes:

I know the NHS has its faults but it is the best health care system in the world IMO

Well we can all have our opinions :eek:

Spanish system is meant to be really good. Many UK people I know living over there have raved on about how short waiting lists are and the quality of the care compared to the NHS.

Swiss hospitals are like hotels. Friend had her baby in one, they had a number of days to recover, with people to look after the baby so they could have a meal with their partner etc. In the UK you give birth and next day turfed out.

I twisted my knee 2 years ago. It blew up the size of a balloon and was in extreme pain. I waited in UK A&E from 8pm to 2am until I was eventually seen. I'm currently in India. I had flu, I walked into a local hospital...was approached by someone who asked how they could help. I said I would like to see a doctor and he said "yes sir, I am one, how may I help". I get annoyed now if I wait more than 20 minutes after walking off the street to see someone + they always give you a few tests to work out exactly whats wrong with you rather than fobbing you off with a pack of antibiotics.
 

Ned Senior

Well-known Member
Sorry for you stuart I know my gran dear went in for one thing and died of something totally unrelated whilst there... I too would love to head for sunnier warmer climes ..maybe the med coast of France.. BUT it it is providing for yourself whilst there that worries me..
As for the health service when you are acute they rally but seem to be getting on and they never ever even check in to ask how do you feel this is from personal experience aswell
 

Jenn

Distinguished Member
My father in law had a bleed in the brain and the doctors at Selley Oak just starved him to death.

I'm sorry to hear about this Stuart.
My father in law had stomach (and other digestive organs) cancer, he couldn't keep any food or drink down yet the hospital thought it'd be better to send him home basically starving about a week before he died. :mad:
 

Codehead

Distinguished Member
I think emigration has to be an option. For health reasons if not the politics, the immigration, the weather, the standard of living, the education, the policing and the religious nutters.

Sorry to hear your news.

I was within one interview of tranferring to the NZRAF in 2006. I only pulled out because of financial constraints to do with the transfer of my pension. Since then the UK has gone downhill even more. In two years those pension constraints will be gone and I'll be applying again.

It doesn't suprise me at all that people want to get out of the UK.
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
I think emigration has to be an option.

I too would love to head for sunnier warmer climes ..maybe the med coast of France.. BUT it it is providing for yourself whilst there that worries me..

I only pulled out because of financial constraints to do with the transfer of my pension.

Would you all like some advice?

Well here it comes, if you want it or not.......


J.F.D.I.

If you have any resources at all, financial, intellectual or skills based, just do it. Move!
Every country in Europe is actually, even in a recession, a place of opportunity for those who are ready and willing to grab it with both hands. (And I do actually include the UK in there too). So long as you are prepared to work hard and diligently, put in as much as you take out, take control of your own destiny rather than hand it over to others who don't care (eg become self-employed rather than an employee of a company who will drop you on a whim) then there is no reason to expect not to succeed.

As for using non-transferability of pensions etc, well you have more faith than me in the future if you think that your (even 'Rock Solid' state pensions) financial future is secure. Not under any government. You may get something, but paying everything that is 'due' to my generation is looking more and more impossible. So it won't happen. Because pensioners can't fight back. Especially against education, health, defence, debt etc etc.


So, why not move? It won't be easy, but it will be hugely rewarding, interesting, satisfying and give you a great sense of achievement that you did it. You may lose your 42" plasmas and regular pay cheques, but you won't have to put up with 24/7 BBC Gordon Brown, Dave, Gloom, despondency, depression and rubbish healthcare.

Or you could stay in the UK and enjoy the recession and the 18 month run up to the next election. :clap::clap:
 

Ned Senior

Well-known Member
going by what john the expat says it makes that more appealing will start another thread on the subject.

back on topic are we really worse off for healthcare than other countries?

which countries are best?

I read once that the jamaican health service runs rings around our british one tho'
 

Codehead

Distinguished Member
New Zealand appealed to me because they are positive about a multicultural society. Also, you can ski and do the beach in the same day. :smashin:

The cost of living is lower (apart from cars), as are wages. However, they catch alot of the stuff that's going on in the 'Tiger' economies so the future is bright.

Plus, I could transfer to the NZRAF and get help with the move, a job and a house as part of the deal. :thumbsup:

I just couldn't transfer my pension and would have lost it. :( However, in two years, it'll be secure and I can jump ship. :clap:
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
I'm sure there is an unwritten rule in this country regarding healthcare provision for the elderly. If you get to a certain age, let's say 70+, it's more economical for you to die. The NHS just doesn't seem to give a stuff about sick old people. My Grandad laid in hospital with a perforated ulcer for two days because nobody could be bothered to operate on him, the ulcer was caused by his GP prescribing the incorrect medicine to treat a slight liver problem...needless to say he went from fit and healthy to deceased within a week. He was 72.

On the other hand my Son, as a lot of you will know, has been having a few problems of his own since just before Christmas and the NHS has been generally superb in their treatment of him. The aftercare service is crappy now that his seizures seem to be under control but throughout the time he was being diagnosed and the time he spent on the high dependemcy wards they were fantastic!

The only places where it goes wrong in hospitals are on the general wards where conditions are pretty poor. There are not enough nurses and the ones who are there are generally miserable and overworked to a ridiculous level.
 

PoochJD

Distinguished Member
Hi,

My sincerest condolences Stuart, for the loss of your father. :(

With all due respect to yourself, and with my tongue firmly in my cheek, I hope you will attend your father's funeral service, unlike "House" in Season 5, Episode 4, where he was coerced into attending by his mother and Wilson. ;)

FWIW, I think the NHS is probably the best healthcare system in the world, despite its problems. :)


Pooch
 

FZR400RRSP

Banned
No complaints about the NHS here either.
Their treatment of my wife through 5 miscarriages and an emergency ectopic operation was beyond reproach.
Same with their treatment during the births of our two daughters.
I was recently admitted for two days too, again the treatment was superb.
As others have said, it's got its problems, but it's still a fantastic service.
Its problems also don't strike me as being peculiar to the NHS.
It just appears to be endemic to hyper-large organisations.
 

kopchoir

Banned
We will have to agree to disagree.

The NHS is the third largest employer in the world and the largest employer in europe there are bound to be problems in an organisation of this magnitude, but on the whole IMO i would still class as the best in the world and many countires are very envious of our system and hospitals.

Maybe im blinkered because of the line of work i am in even biased maybe and i have seen first hand many other countries as well, all have their faults and posotives but if there has one thing this goverment has got right is the nhs since they took goverment.

Kop
 

ukdan

Active Member
I broke my leg in a car accident and had a pin put in at an NHS hospital.
They snapped 2 drill bits trying to drill through the bone and pin and left them in there.
It got infected and couldn't walk.
Went private to sort the rest out.
 

tigermad

Distinguished Member
I had gangerous appendicitis. It was close to bursting point and it if it had I would have died.

It took 2 trips to hospital for them to diagnose it after I was told it was gastroentritis.

Then after the appendectomy I was in a room on my own and was in extreme agony and could not move (in the middle of the night). I buzzed and buzzed and screamed and screamed for hours but no one came. Unfortunately I do not have private health cover so there was nothing I could do but stay there, bloo*y NHS :(
 

Jenn

Distinguished Member
The NHS is the third largest employer in the world and the largest employer in europe there are bound to be problems in an organisation of this magnitude, but on the whole IMO i would still class as the best in the world and many countires are very envious of our system and hospitals.

Because it's big doesn't mean it's better (and I don't suggest that's what you meant) or that patients should suffer from it and its "problems" otherwise do away with it and make small regional systems where patient care is the most important thing.

I'd love to know though what countries are envious of our hospitals! :eek:
Envious of the system, possibly because it's free for patients for example compared to the french system where you still pay towards your medication (unless you're old etc.) and need health insurance to compensate.

However I know that if I fell ill and needed to go to hospital, I'd rather do in France than here!

I'm not blaming the people working for the NHS by the way (not the ones who do the hard work anyway) although some could do with realising that people in hospitals aren't there because they enjoy it and a bit of caring attitude would go a long way.
I think it's the whole system that needs to be looked at and re-prioritise.

I could tell you the story of my son's birth and the more I think about it the more I'm ****** off but it's a bit long so you'll just have to add my experiences to the list of people here with a bad one.
Let's just say that it's amazing that they expect a woman who's had a difficult birth to walk on her own to the cantine to feed herself leaving her newborn alone or do without food and they don't even notice!
 

kav

Distinguished Member
Let's just say that it's amazing that they expect a woman who's had a difficult birth to walk on her own to the cantine to feed herself leaving her newborn alone or do without food and they don't even notice!

My wife's mate had a hysterectomy early in the morning (7am-ish) a couple of weeks ago. Just after mid-day she was told she had to go home as they needed the bed. :eek::(

IMO the NHS needs a governance structure similar to what you would get in the private sector. I appreciate that you would need to balance the needs of the population against the efficiency of the system that supports those needs. At the moment, the NHS just seems to be collapsing under its own weight.

My wife and several mates have worked in various roles for the NHS, and the level of inefficiencies and poor working practices they describe are frankly staggering, and that's only at a local level. Multiply this wastefulness up to a national level and it doesn't bear thinking about.

If the NHS were a corporate organisation, it would have gone under and its profitable parts bought up years ago. Of course I'm not saying this is how I want it to go, but I think some of the principles used in corporate governance for how to manage large organisations are badly needed. Or, in other words, chop out all the dead wood. Get a couple of former CEOs in and use them to shake it up!
 

Codehead

Distinguished Member
If the NHS were a corporate organisation, it would have gone under and its profitable parts bought up years ago. Of course I'm not saying this is how I want it to go, but I think some of the principles used in corporate governance for how to manage large organisations are badly needed. Or, in other words, chop out all the dead wood. Get a couple of former CEOs in and use them to shake it up!

That's a dangerous road to go down. Look at the Ambulance thread.

I agree that there is a lot of waste and inefficiency in the Public sector, the Armed Forces are the same, money pouring down the drain in some areas. However, we are talking about people's lives in the NHS, can you really put a price on that? IMO Defence and Health are things we must have, and that means throwing money at them to get it.
Unfortunately, that kind of money throwing attracts unscrupulous contractors who siphon off anything they can get their grubby mits on. That's where the knife needs to go in.
 

kav

Distinguished Member
That's a dangerous road to go down. Look at the Ambulance thread.

I agree that there is a lot of waste and inefficiency in the Public sector, the Armed Forces are the same, money pouring down the drain in some areas. However, we are talking about people's lives in the NHS, can you really put a price on that? IMO Defence and Health are things we must have, and that means throwing money at them to get it.
Unfortunately, that kind of money throwing attracts unscrupulous contractors who siphon off anything they can get their grubby mits on. That's where the knife needs to go in.

Totally agree mate - I probably haven't made myself clear enough. The nature of what the NHS does means that the protection and improvement of human life should be the absolute highest priority - there is no question about that. Just as a bank's highest priority will be to deliver value to its shareholders, so too should the NHS's priority be to deliver the best possible care to its patients.

What I meant in my post above is, in order to deliver this care in the best manner possible, you need the most efficient people, processes and procedures within your organisation. Any extraneous crap which is discovered to be detrimental to your fundamental objectives should be sidelined to allow the focus to remain on the priorities.

In the example you give, of contractors taking the NHS for a ride: the reason this happens is because the NHS staff they have running these projects are more often than not skilled in patient care, and not in project management or information technology, ie the skills that count when it comes to working out what you want a third party to deliver. The level of computer illiteracy I've experienced first-hand with people working in the NHS is a sight to behold, yet they expect these same people to be able to define their technical requirements and project manage a third-party contractor to get the product they need. Half the time they don't even know what it is they need, yet they jump headlong into a project to deliver a "magic box" that will sort out all their problems! Of course unscrupulous contractors will use this to their advantage and charge a fortune any time a change is made to the requirements spec, but equally I know a good few people working in third party support for NHS contracts, and they regularly express their exasperation about the fact that the staff managing their contract do not have a clue what they actually want. How on earth can they deliver on something when they can't even define what they want them to deliver? :D

Getting back to my point, this kind of thing is where I believe input from big business is necessary in the NHS. Keep the staff whose expertise is in patient care working on the patients who need them so badly, and get in some competent personnel with the right skills and background to allow you to deliver the infrastructure you need to support the key objective: that of patient care. :smashin:
 
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