Idiots not wearing masks enabling other idiots not to wear masks

[brian s]

Karen on an EasyJet flight from Belfast to Edinburgh

Unbelievable! I hope they throw the book at her.

Bri

 

[krish]

She's an anti-vaxxer arsehole who I had a spirited exchange with on Twitter back in Feb, after LBC gave her a very brief platform (tbf Shelagh Fogarty shut her down pretty quickly). She seemed to think that her several thousand followers compared to mine in double digits gave her arguments credibility. Attention seeking social media whore. She's also a pro-lifer QAnon Trumptard.

Btw, she was definitely bullsh*tting in that tweet, only posted to get her the follows and infamy
- debunked in this thread ...

 

[IronGiant]

Last cheeky photo of 2 of them not socially distancing by moving seats

 

[SteveAWOL]

 

[Scaletail]

Interesting to read opinions that date from a few months ago. The consensus on mask wearing has steadily changed during this pandemic. WHO and UK gov initially saying that masks are innefective, to now recommending and even making it law in some circumstances.
Something I've observed, is a worrying level of infantalism in the adult population.
People looking to a surrogate parent, ( the govmnt), for guidance about what should be done.
If its not againsed the rules, then I'll do it. Dad, ( Boris) said so.
I'd rather look at the scientific data, and use logic to make my own decisions.
The gov have a poor track record of good policy recently. Credit where its due, some very good decision making, mixed with very bad.
I was wearing a mask in shops, trains in February. When the govmnt were discouraging.
There was less data available then, but a paucity of data means that its an unknown. To use this lack of data to state a negative is nonsensical and very unscientific.
Besides, even back then, there was data to support the efficacy of face coverings, and, as far as I could tell, little to none for the opposing case.
In that scenario, the pro mask stance has the greater credibility.
This action alone won't be enough to halt a pandemic, but it helps.
Its naieve to trust that every non mask wearer is genuinely exempt.
Today I met with my child's teacher, who was struggling under her mask. But she carried on regardless. I was impressed with her dedication.
I'm seeing more and more shop staff wearing masks, all day long.

 

[Hampy1972]

Seen numerous idiots not wearing masks in shops...why aren't retailers refusing entry?

 

[Sloppy Bob]

Because if you refuse the wrong person you're likely to get a punch in the face and the supermarket is liable for their staff.

You may have a medical exemption and you (stupidly) don't need to prove you have one.

I'd be happy for it to be compulsory but we're "too free" to allow such a measure.

 

[gavinhanly]

Because if you refuse the wrong person you're likely to get a punch in the face and the supermarket is liable for their staff.

You may have a medical exemption and you (stupidly) don't need to prove you have one.

I'd be happy for it to be compulsory but we're "too free" to allow such a measure.

What I’ve never understood is why the supermarkets with big security guards on the door don’t at least remind people they’re not wearing a mask. Would they be afraid to tackle a thief too?

 

[Sloppy Bob]

big security guards on the door

My 2 nearest supermarkets have old men who are past retirement age.

Would they be afraid to tackle a thief too?

Many retailers used to have a policy of not getting physical with shoplifters, again, for fear of staff being injured. I'm not sure if that's changed. They were to confront you and if you're weren't compliant they'd call the police and leave you to it.

 

[weaviemx5]

It's pretty clear masks don't make any difference at all. They were only made compulsory in July 2020 to give people the confidence to go back out and start spending money again to stop the economy completely tanking - no other reason. If masks were so damn effective, why have we had two further lockdowns since? Masks just give people a false sense of protection. Jeez, the world has gone to hell in a handcart, but hey, wear your mask and all will be good. You couldn't make this stuff up.

I assume you’re against the idea of the vaccine too, being a proponent of natural herd immunity and survival of the fittest? That’s good to know though, it’s one more dose available for someone who needs it.

 

[gavinhanly]

Many retailers used to have a policy of not getting physical with shoplifters, again, for fear of staff being injured. I'm not sure if that's changed. They were to confront you and if you're weren't compliant they'd call the police and leave you to it.

There's one near here that gestures to everyone who's not wearing one or who has it on as a chin nappy. TBH - that's really all that's needed but everyone's completely ignored.

 

[ChuckMountain]

I assume you’re against the idea of the vaccine too, being a proponent of natural herd immunity and survival of the fittest? That’s good to know though, it’s one more dose available for someone who needs it.

He doesn't say he is against mask-wearing, just that they have limited effectiveness as we are now in our third lockdown.

Have they helped contain the spread, do we have data to support that or not? Or maybe it's just spreading in idiots that don't wear their masks properly or a false sense of security allowing mask-wearing people to mingle closer and still continue the spread.

And for clarity, I wear a mask and will be getting the vaccine when I can.

 

[weaviemx5]

He doesn't say he is against mask-wearing, just that they have limited effectiveness as we are now in our third lockdown.

Have they helped contain the spread, do we have data to support that or not? Or maybe it's just spreading in idiots that don't wear their masks properly or a false sense of security allowing mask-wearing people to mingle closer and still continue the spread.

And for clarity, I wear a mask and will be getting the vaccine when I can.

If you look at their other posts, they're a proponent of herd immunity and believe Sweden got it right over every other country, because it's essentially worth killing off those older/more vulnerable in return for everyone else being ok (in their opinion).

 

[ChuckMountain]

If you look at their other posts, they're a proponent of herd immunity and believe Sweden got it right over every other country, because it's essentially worth killing off those older/more vulnerable in return for everyone else being ok (in their opinion).

Fair point then, haven't looked in detail at his other posts

 

[TheAdmiralCS]

It's pretty clear masks don't make any difference at all. They were only made compulsory in July 2020 to give people the confidence to go back out and start spending money again to stop the economy completely tanking - no other reason. If masks were so damn effective, why have we had two further lockdowns since? Masks just give people a false sense of protection. Jeez, the world has gone to hell in a handcart, but hey, wear your mask and all will be good. You couldn't make this stuff up.

I'm going to give you an hour to provide scientific evidence for this or else you'll be thread banned (at the minimum) for posting things you "think" as fact.

 

[brian s]

For me the masks are working. Six years ago I had cancer. One of the side effects of the treatment was that I became very susceptible to chest infections. l was doing really well If I went for as much as a month without getting a really bad one. Since the first lockdown I haven't had a single chest infection. Of course I've been taking other precautions like attempting to socially distance and not going to pubs, restaurants or visiting other houses. I'm all for them and I wish everyone would wear them. If they have a genuine reason for not wearing one they should at least keep their distance from those around them.

Bri

 

[Scaletail]

Its a massive mistake to make assumptions purely based on a personal notion, and in doing so creating fuel for potentially harmful ideology.
There is plenty of scientific data to prove the efficacy of masks in preventing viral spread. I've seen no data to support the opposite view. There was recent press attention on a study conducted by a Danish university, stating that masks don't help to prevent the spread of covid 19. I was very curious to read the data, as I'd been looking for months to find some. I emailed them. Their response was to deny any knowledge of such a study!
The study had since been scutinised. Its massively flawed. The participants were doing what the general population do, not wearing the ppe properly, so rendering it rather less effective. Human error.
Its worrying to hear medical professionals and scientific academics making confident statements based on no data or flawed data.
Guesswork isn't credible, no matter who it comes from. You could argue that informed guesswork is credible if it comes from someone of vast experience, but this has been proven to be unreliable. If you have an opinion, better back it up with some solid data.
I get the feeling that some people like to take a counter view just to be provocative and gain attention, regardless of facts.

 

[gavinhanly]

Still people not wearing them in supermarkets today. SIGH.

I've said before, I take non-mask-wearing as an alert that the person probably pays scant attention to the other advice and therefore is much more likely to be a spreader. Avoid those idiots like the plague as they're probably responsible for it.

 

[Scaletail]

On the subject of shops not enforcing mask wearing.
I think some don't want to enforce rules because they don't feel that its their job to implement laws.
They also Want to avoid potential conflict with aggressive non maskers, in order to protect staff.
I have issue.
Firstly, allowing someone to enter without a mask is putting their staff at risk, and all other customers. Its negligant to allow this. Likewise, not insisting staff wear face coverings is putting those staff and customers at risk.
Secondly, when a business operates, it has a duty to provide an environment that is safe. There are all Sorts of health and safety regulations that all shops have to comply to.
Failing to do so can result in legal actions being taken.
If a shop won't confront a non mask wearer, would they also not confront a shoplifter?
Would they stand back and call the police, who turn up an hour later, thief long gone?
Many shops employ security staff, who tackle shoplifters. How is tackling covid deniers any different?
Certain supermarkets have issued statements that outline how they feel its not their place to deny non mask wearers entry. This could be construed as avoiding responsibility.

 

[krish]

Something I've observed, is a worrying level of infantalism in the adult population.
People looking to a surrogate parent, ( the govmnt), for guidance about what should be done.
If its not againsed the rules, then I'll do it. Dad, ( Boris) said so.
I'd rather look at the scientific data, and use logic to make my own decisions.

Good points. My elderly parents and I have been exercising more caution than advised by govt, especially over the Christmas period. Even though we can be a support bubble, I only visited them twice before we mutually decided, before any vaccine had been approved, to knock that on the head until they're both vaccinated.

I've noticed that some who often tell others to "man up" now rather disingenuously bring up mental health arguments against lockdown and restrictions. Did they "man up" over the festive period and curb their usual behaviour?

 

[IronGiant]

If a shop won't confront a non mask wearer, would they also not confront a shoplifter?
Would they stand back and call the police, who turn up an hour later, thief long gone?

In some places it is policy not to confront shoplifters in case they are violent. The business would rather lose a few hundred quid than risk having an employee injured.

 

[goingoingong]

In some places it is policy not to confront shoplifters in case they are violent. The business would rather lose a few hundred quid than risk having an employee injured.

And thus are fulfilling their duty of care and health and safety obligations to their staff.

Which points to a dichotomy for stores: protect their staff by not exposing them to risk by confronting nose peepers or fail to protect their staff by not exposing them to risk by confronting nose peepers but, by following that course of action, then allow the peepers to potentially spread covid to their staff (and customers). They are between a rock and a hard place...

 

[Scaletail]

In some places it is policy not to confront shoplifters in case they are violent. The business would rather lose a few hundred quid than risk having an employee injured.

Its interesting how policies differ. We've all seen security guards chasing down felons on reality TV docs. A security company know the risks involved, as do police officers. The actual shop staff don't need to be placed at risk. That's the point of security staff.

 

[realfrankturner]

Security staff can't do nothing, they have no powers.

I used to manage a pawnbroking shop and had security down nearly every day for something, all they would do is try and talk to the person causing trouble, if it kicks off then police are called.

 

[Scaletail]

Good points. My elderly parents and I have been exercising more caution than advised by govt, especially over the Christmas period. Even though we can be a support bubble, I only visited them twice before we mutually decided, before any vaccine had been approved, to knock that on the head until they're both vaccinated.

I've noticed that some who often tell others to "man up" now rather disingenuously bring up mental health arguments against lockdown and restrictions. Did they "man up" over the festive period and curb their usual behaviour?

An interview springs to mind. A certain pop star decided to have a dinner for eight, because it abided by the rules, so it was OK.
One guest was covid positive, the virus ripped through the dinner guests.
Said pop star was surprised that this infection happened, because the gov said dinner for eight was safe.
What happened to common sense?
Why show blind faith in a surrogate parent? What about using adult responsibility?