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I want another xbox but can't put up with the faults

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by Dom H, Jun 23, 2002.

  1. Dom H

    Dom H
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    I've had 3 xboxes, treated them all perfectly but had to return them all due to disc read errors. My cash is waiting but I can't put up with these faults, anyone else seen the 'disc may be dirty' error on their xbox?


    Please MS fix this

    Dom
     
  2. BoilingPoint

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    Sorry to hear about your problems old fella'. Personally I've never experienced a single problem with mine. If you're getting problems then contact M$ (what am I telling you for, you've already done it twice.) You'll get a good one eventually. ;)
     
  3. Ixon

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    Same goes with me I never had a problem with mine. Maybe you was just unlucky and got the Xbox's from a dodgy batch they had in stock.
     
  4. spikeyboyo

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    Only time ive had that error is when playing Halo online - but its a totally different reason for it.

    Hope i havent spoken to soon.


    Spike
     
  5. snake II

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    hi mate, even though i dont own an xbox, when i go to the local town center i saw an xbox stand but it said cannot load disk, check disk maybe dirty etc, this is always there when ever the game starts or reloads.
     
  6. Annatar

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    I have an Xbox.

    I can honestly say I wished I never bought it. The games so far are ALL absolutely awful.

    Graffics are no better than any Playstation 2 game, in fact I find them quite jerky! HALO is very very repetitive, and apat from the outside areas, grafficly is quite bland.

    I bought mine on day of release. I have received the bonus free games and joypad, these have been played once and never played again.

    My Xbox is now gathering dust!
     
  7. hulkhead

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    never had any problems with mine. The only disk which reported 'may be dirty' was one I had rented from blockbusters. Cleaned it and no further problems.

    Ok the games are not brilliant yet, apart from a handful but it's still better than a ps2
     
  8. CLH

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    Oh come on. Personal opinion is one thing but that just isn't true. I have all 3 consoles and the Xbox is graphically superior in most cases. Halo is actually not a good example of xbox graphics. Take a look at Rallisport, Enclave, DOA3, JSRF, PGR and can you honestly say its no better than the PS2 graphically?
     
  9. Annatar

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    I too have all three consoles, infact I have four ( Dreacast ). Yes, I do think that there is no real difference between them, and certainly not that great leap and bound Microsoft led us to believe.

    I am waiting a little bit longer to see what is to come out. The only game I am keeping my fingers crossed for is Star Wars: Knights of the old republic. If this turns out to be a ' yawn ' like the other games I have played, then it will be sold asap.

    Don't get me wrong, I think it could be great, just the games at the moment I personally do not show it any justice!
     
  10. NeoBlade

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    Halo is indeed a good example of the Xbox's power for now. Atm though the Xbox is hardly breaking into a sweat so I can't wait for the 2nd gen stuff. I'm pretty impressed with the graphical engine of DoA3 though and its being put to good use with Ninja Gaiden.

    Graphically the Xbox has this arena all to itself, if it is used to its potential, however customs effects can be done by the Gamecube and PS2 as well. All it takes is a bit of clever programming... I'm pretty sure that the vector units of the PS2 are not being used to its potential so theres plenty of scope for games to improve graphically on all 3 formats.
     
  11. CLH

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    Have you tried Enclave yet?

    Love your avatar by the way!!
     
  12. Azrikam

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    I've got to agree on the XBox thing. Since I've had it, PS2 games look really bad. I played Virtua Fighter 4, and I couldn't understand the reviews that said it looked better than DOAIII. To me, it looked very forgettable. (just the graphics, I didn't play enough to get into the fighting engine)

    Considering that XBox developers are still learning the hardware, I think the gap between PS2 and XBox games is just going to widen. Course, gameplay is more important than graphics, but in the visuals department, I don't think PS2 can hold a candle to the Box.
     
  13. Zacabeb

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    I think the Xbox is as overrated in the graphics department as the PS2 was before release. It has the capacity that is feasible for its generation, no better and no lesser.

    Something that bothers me is that as soon as a system is released, people will use any advertised capabilities as a mean to attack other systems. The PS2 showed interlace flicker and lack of MIP-mapping in early games - something that had Dreamcast gamers brag about the anti-aliasing in the Dreamcast and the lack thereof in the PS2. Funny enough, very few Dreamcast games ever used anti-aliasing (supersampling). The lesser flicker was merely caused by bilinear MIP-mapping (complete with banding) and heavy scanline filtering.

    I see the same thing on the Xbox. People have a tendency to compare GT3 and PGR. What is interesting about those two games is that they use similar effects; real-time environment mapping, shiny tarmac, and reflective windows on buildings. What is even more interesting is that they do these effects pretty much the same way.

    The shiny tarmac in PGR is a low-res light map and the chrome is not much more detailed than in GT3. While GT3 cheats by using the focused car's chrome on all other cars, PGR cheats by rendering the chrome at a fraction of the game's frame rate. So, in GT3 your immediate surroundings reflect off cars that are way ahead, in PGR the reflections jerk around on the chrome. The light mapping on the road is blended better and does not break up in PGR, but on the other hand it is in a horribly low resolution.

    Technically speaking, I think it has been a tie between the two so far. I must say though that the shading on the cars is a little better in GT3. Not because of technology but because of better implementation.

    I think the Xbox's strength lies mostly in its hard drive and the tigher online plans. The overall graphical capacity is not that much better than the PS2, but it is slightly more polished when it comes to texture quality and visual effects. Still, those difference is smaller than the differences in talent between developers.

    The games looking so good on the Xbox that they could not be made on the PS2 will be there, but they will be few.
     
  14. NeoBlade

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    Then again the Xbox uses DirectX 8.1... Which PC developers have built a huge library around, so its not that hard to find tools for. With the PS2 and Gamecube the software had to be written from scratch, esp. with the PS2 which led to poor looking games (Ridge Racer V anyone?).

    With DX8 that alone is a HUGE advantage, plus the core technology is based off PC components, which can only add to its lower learning curve. Mind you the PS2 is far from finished since I don't believe that the main weapons of the PS2 (the vector units) have been used well thus far. Once they get that baby down, expect to see more graphical flair.

    What the Xbox has in its advantage though is the use of its pixel shaders, vertex shaders, memory and pure polygon power. I think I said it on another post that atm the Xbox is hardly breaking into a sweat since the nVidia graphics chip is hot property. Add a stable platform and loads of optimisation and you have a very powerful platform that will rival any top PC in terms of graphics (but not resolution or colour depth). In saying that though I just read a review of the latest Radeon and its very sweet indeed...

    Don't agree with you there sorry, since while the PS2 was hyped up at the start most people that follow the PC graphics scene were not that impressed. I think you'll agree though that most of the... Dare I say it... Casual gamers, were caught in the hype. When I say casual, I don't mean it in a negative way. Its just one that chooses not to play videogames as much as some by choice and thus might not have the knowledge of it all. I'm willing to give my definition of a "casual gamer" if needed but not right now since it'll be kinda long ^_^

    I'm with you on that alright. Loads of DC fanboys started to air their voice in the chat rooms about the flickering, mip-mapping etc. First impressions tend to count a lot to some, but in the console world the good stuff must come out in the 2nd gen stuff to stand a chance. If killer apps are made before then, then thats a bonus.

    Which is a result of a much longer development time between the two. Long development times doesn't always give you good games mind but at least with GT3 it offered better control and of course a very nice graphics engine.

    So you would say that a game like DoA3 would be identical on the PS2? As things stand I can't agree with your last point. For starters AA isn't as easy to implement on the PS2 as it is on the Xbox and that alone would contribute to "jaggies" at lower resolutions. At a higer res, AA isn't really needed.

    Sega are often great at maxing out a consoles potential with its bigger games and with the port of VF4 they had to make a few compromises compared to its Naomi 2 game. The lighting was toned down overall, but increased in terms of "boldness"... Basically the depth and use of it had to be replaced with something more direct because of the limitations in calculating power. That is why the PS2 version has more reflective characters than the arcade original. Other limitations included the particle generation for the sand and snow. I know its not a direct comparison of the Xbox and PS2, but then such things shouldn't be done anyway until at least the 2nd gen stuff comes out.

    If we really wanted to compare the two right now then we should compare the PS2's first gen titles against the current Xbox games. Ridge Racer V verses PGR. Tekken Tag Vs DoA3. Could go on but you get the picture.

    The PS2 should be in full flow now and the only recent-ish game I've been impressed with so far (if speaking in terms of graphics) is FFX. Some might say MGS2 as well, but for me that game has a rather low resolution for textures, but is saved by decent 3D models and a superb particle engine.

    I will stick my neck out and say though, that with the current state of games the Xbox will have quite a few titles only possible on the Xbox alone. Of course though if you offer great optimisation, anythings possible. In terms of hardware though the Xbox has a massive potential advantage since it is based off PC components. With the PS2 though its a lot harder to judge for obvious reasons, but the use of the VU's is the key.
     
  15. Azrikam

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    Good point about DirectX. I've heard that the PS2 is very difficult to program for, so that alone will force developers to work harder to get the same results.
     
  16. NeoBlade

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    The PS2 was difficult to work on before, purely because you had to write to the metal. Now though with middleware it will help some developers and of course lower those ever increasing development costs. The PS2's "Performance Analyser" has been out for some time so that will also help greatly with any optimisation.

    The main reason though for the PS2's steep learing curve is that information needs to be fed to all seven (? I can't remember, but I know its not lower than that figure) processors to be able to show off graphically. If there any bottlenecks with the data for any of the processors then the performace will take a hit.

    Then of course there are the lovely Vector Units which is the key to the PS2's power. I can't explain it in detail on how these two powerful chips work but just beleive me when I say they are the key for the PS2 ^_^ I don't know where JohnJ have shot off too since he could possibly explain it better than I could.
     
  17. Azrikam

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    Of course, "theoretically", the more work you have to do, the more flexible you can be in your development.
     
  18. lechacal

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    OTOH the more low level work the hardware/libraries do for you the more time you have to devote to creating a decent game.

    One of the reasons developers shunned the Saturn was that it was seen as 'difficult to write for'. I suspect the one of the reasons that the PS2 hasn't suffered the same fate is that the brand had already achieved market domination.
     
  19. Zacabeb

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    Of course I am not under the impression that DoA3 would be identical on the PS2. First of all it is the only Xbox game I have seen so far that uses bump mapping properly - it is very subtle and I highly respect Team Ninja for that. A PS2 version would no doubt look flatter. But looking at various games both on the PS2 and Xbox I do think a PS2 version could come quite close in polygon count.

    Aliasing is something I expect to be resolved on the Xbox as games start rendering at higher resolutions. But nonetheless, DoA3 has a bit of aliasing and texture noise and is still one of the best looking games I have seen.

    What I meant was that the Xbox is only so far ahead of the PS2 and I do not expect a dramatic difference in 3D complexity.

    Say, for instance you want to create a crowded street - with hundreds of detailed people and cars moving. Neither of the consoles could do that respectably. Games are still very barren. A street with a few dozen of people and cars could be done though, and would be a bit prettier on the Xbox with higher res textures and better shading.

    The hard drive on the other hand would change the way games work. Say you'd have a huge city to walk around in with thousands of objects to interact with. On either console, data would have to be streamed as you move around. But on the Xbox, anything you alter in the city could be stored on the HD, letting the game remember virtually everything that has happened.

    There could be more objects to interact with, for instance you could walk into a fully furnished apartment and move, pick up or smash any object instead of just a few discrete ones like keys or coffee mugs. Now I think the Xbox has limitations there but it has the potential at least.

    If you are familiar with the game Damocles on the 16-bit ST and Amiga, you might remember you could pick up any object you found unless it was too heavy (not a problem once you found the anti-grav device). There were not too many objects and although there were thousands of apartments to enter, almost every one was completely empty. Now imagine a Damocles where every apartment would be furnished and inhabited by characters. We're getting closer to that.

    Naturally, there would be uses for the higher graphical capacity. In old 3D games, when you came across a sign, newspaper, book or similar you had to read it through on-screen text boxes. With higher resolution textures, those signs and papers could be read straight through the game camera. This would certainly enhance your exploration of the aforementioned city, but might be too tricky to work out on the PS2.
     
  20. NeoBlade

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    Hit the nail right on the head there lechacal. The Saturn was quite a nice console considering that it was designed for 2D with 3D almost like an after thought. In 2D nothing could touch it, plus the extra RAM helped out (onboard and additional). Still, once developers wrote to the metal there were some nice graphical games like Quake, Burning Rangers and Sonic R. The Saturn had the components, but it was just put together badly. The Dreamcast in comparison is a lot cleaner and more efficient but by then Sega's rep was long gone...

    It could if the Xbox's development stood still right now though. I can't see that happening since development on DX8 has been done and is still ongoing, so theres only a need to optimise the software for the console itself. Of course I'm being rather loose with my words since any game needs decent development time, etc to get it right, but I'm sure the basework is there and ready to use.
    Much like the PS2's libraries to be honest now, since its been out for some time. Personally though I can't see many PS2 games beating the Xbox purely in terms of polygons and even effects.

    Totally agree with you there mate, but for a first effort on the Xbox its not too shabby. I would expect the game to look a lot better once its running in progressive scan, but then most games would.

    Ah... I guess I kinda misread you on the previous post >_< I agree as well since it won't be like a massive jump as we've seen from 2D to 3D. For now its more like an evolution of graphics rather than a revolution for sure, kinda like the jump from NES to SNES or PSX to PS2. We won't see anything radically more powerful until the PS3 since by then graphics would have really improved. Just looking at the new Radeon card makes me confident that games will certainly be a lot more polished graphically than the ones we're looking at now by some margin.

    True once again, but then thats down to the available memory as well as graphical prowess. Right now access to RAM is often the bottleneck for consoles and PCs. The PCs at least will sample the speed of DDR2, but such technology won't be used on consoles until the next gen of course. I remember that a PC game called Republic or something will basically render every single human being the size of a small country, where the game is set. All with their own individual traits, etc etc. The game was planned about 5+ years ago, but was pushed back until the technology caught up. Now it has and development was started quite some time ago. Haven't heard much of it since though.

    I think I touched on the scratch disk before on a previous post.. Might have been on a diff, thread though. It certainly opens up a lot of possibilities and Nintendo offered such a service with its ill-faited N64DD. Nintendo have planned to use an SD-Adapter too for the Gamecube which will have stamp sized mem cards with a 1Gb capacity or more. Once again though, no more news have surfaced about this adapter.

    With the Xbox at least the HDD is standard and I hope to see a lot of innovation from it, to drive games forward. We will have to wait and see how Project Ego comes along to find out I suppose.

     

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