I think the Wii is overpriced...

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sjw

Well-known Member
I know we had the debate a while back when the price was announced but I really do think £180 is way too expensive. I know it's early days and we are in for some treats that only Nintendo can provide etc. and it's not all about graphics but in comparison it's really starting to look poor value for (be honest) a console not a great deal more powerful than the GC - say XBOX and a bit.. (is it true it really is the same basic processor but speeded up?)
Let's see.
Console - £180 (no HDD)
Game --- £40
Extra controller - £30
Decent video cable (how bad is composite!!) - £20+
You are already upto over £270!!

Then look at this..
# Project Gotham Racing 3 & Extra Xbox 360 Wireless Controller
# Xbox 360 Console
# 20GB Hard Drive
# Wireless Pad
# Headset
# Face Plate
# Component HD AV Cable
# Ethernet Cable
# Xbox Live Silver membership
Funnily enough...£270..

No doubt I'll be flamed but once the novelty has worn off and you start to see developers struggling to come up with decent games because they feel obliged to use the controller, it will struggle. Again. :(
Red Steel is too bad for words.
I know it's only very early and games are first gen (or even GC switched games) and I really hope I'm wrong here - but I struggle to think that while they were busy developing the fantastic Wii remote, the other hardware team couldn't come up with something a bit more powerful... they say they start developing the new console as soon as the previous one is released.

OK, Sony reacted and added some tilt control to their PS3 controller but if the Wiimote does do well, it won't be long before M$ do something very similar and bring one out for the 360 - and then the Wii will look REALLY poor value in comparison.
Once the novelty wears off and people see that in reality it costs the same as another far more powerful machine, it will struggle. Sure, it's doing great now on hype and getting into peoples' homes for Christmas (or not..) but if it would have been £50 cheaper it would have got into a lot more over the next 6 months and had a much better foundation to build on.
Sorry to make a post like this when we're all still either busy playing it or still trying to get one but I just wanted to take a bit of a reality check....

Well...??.......................
 

Orwella

Active Member
All consoles are overpriced at release. Look how much the XBO360 has come down in 12 months. Now, if you apply the same price reductions to the Wii, they will be around £100 by next Christmas, and decent games should be more widely available.

You pay to be the first to own any piece of technology.
 

Sonic67

Banned
I think they are different markets. I'd go for a 360. My missus who has never been interested in playing a game in her life (and is 51) said she would love to have one. I was so shocked I asked her to repeat that.
 

stu.artd

Member
One thing you've missed is that the Wii has a built in wireless network adapter, the XBox 360 one retails at around £55.

The base price with wireless connectivity and Wii Sports included is below £200 which is a very attractive price point.

I have to say that the 360 does represent very good value as well. I'm not biased either way as I'm lucky enough to have both.
 

arcam007

Novice Member
I did read somewhere that Nintendo wanted to price it at £99 in the UK, but retailers weren't happy with the profit margin.
 

lazymatt

Novice Member
I think the only thing I would begrudge (bearing in mind Nintendo's explanation of why they named it 'Wii') is having to pay for an extra controller and nunchuck.

I do think for the price it should have come with controllers for 2 people.

Still, seeing as I can't get my hands on one, they must have done something right!
 

sjw

Well-known Member
Release price of the 360 isn't really an issue though - Nintendo are competing against its price now.
Well, nintendo say they're not competing but in reality they are. OK, some people (as M$ said) will have both (or even all three) but in reality they are competing. My point is really, contrary to what Nintendo said about pricing before release, fact is the machines in any 'usable' state cost basically the same. But one is massively more powerful than the other.
Little Johnny looking at them side by side will go for the graphics.. :(
The Wii does have wi-fi - but not everyone (probably the minority infact) has wi-fi. They then have to pay to hard wire it. The 360 package comes with that kit so that's swings and roundabouts really.
I do think for the price it should have come with controllers for 2 people.
Exactly - they played on the multiplayer side of the machine but then want ANOTHER £45 to get another 'complete' controller.

Still, seeing as I can't get my hands on one, they must have done something right!
Not really - it's not wise to judge it so soon after release. Not much marketing either.
And don't get me started on the same poor, slow, bordered VC games. That are also too dear. I appreciate we have language issues in the EU but why not offer both versions of a game - it's called choice..
 

JamesOD

Active Member
I did read somewhere that Nintendo wanted to price it at £99 in the UK, but retailers weren't happy with the profit margin.
As it stands the only people making huge profit from the Wii are Nintendo and the ebayers M8.


Stores make about 8% on hardware but out of that profit you have to pay distribution costs wages and all the other costs that go with running a store.

Thats the reason why most stores try to force bundles on you because the margin is in the software not the hardware until much later in a consoles life tbh.
 

stu.artd

Member
Release price of the 360 isn't really an issue though - Nintendo are competing against its price now.
Well, nintendo say they're not competing but in reality they are. OK, some people (as M$ said) will have both (or even all three) but in reality they are competing. My point is really, contrary to what Nintendo said about priceing before release, fact is the machines in any 'usable' state cost basically the same. But one is massively more powerful than the other.
Little Johnny looking at them side by side will go for the graphics.. :(
The Wii does have wi-fi - but not everyone (probably the minority infact) has wi-fi. They then have to pay to hard wire it. The 360 package comes with that kit so that's swings and roundabouts really.
I disagree. The wii in a "useable" state is £235, that's £180 for the console, £20 for a component cable and £35 for wii play and a 2nd remote. I don't think the wireless connectivity can be discounted that easilly either, the 360 simply can't do it unless you spend £55 on an adapter, so to compare as closely as possible that 360's price is bumped up by £55.

Little Johnny may well be a graphics freak but they might also find the control system so simple and fun in any of those 2 games (well collections tbh) I mentioned that they're swayed to the Wii. The wii is also capturing the imagination of a lot of people (my wife excluded) and drawing in non-gamers, so it's expanding the market that it's appealing to.

Couldn't agree more about the VC games.
 

sjw

Well-known Member
I agree entirely about 'capturing the imagination' etc. of 'non-gamers' but if that really does continue then of course we will see something very similar elsewhere..
By 'usable' I meant with another game. Wii Sports is great fun - esp multi-player but Play - come on. A few good ideas (Table Tennis) but at least 4 or 5 games I would never ever wish to play again. I think they're just there to teach you some 'wii moves'.
 

cu3ed

Novice Member
What a load of old rubbish, take this fanboy stuff somewhere else please.
same arguments.
DS was a "gimmick" and it has blowen the competion away.
The Wii has more consoles in circulation than the intire 360, and its been out for a year or so.

Red Steel if a first Gen game, working from a completely new perspective, it s was always going to be dodgy, though for what it is im having fun with it.
Have you played NFS Carbon, so many control style to choose from that make the game so much more fun and very easy to play, alot more feedback that your standard layout controller.

And, hey, you dont HAVE to buy one, nobody is making you, why dont you go get a 360, its "obviously" better!.


I know we had the debate a while back when the price was announced but I really do think £180 is way too expensive. I know it's early days and we are in for some treats that only Nintendo can provide etc. and it's not all about graphics but in comparison it's really starting to look poor value for (be honest) a console not a great deal more powerful than the GC - say XBOX and a bit.. (is it true it really is the same basic processor but speeded up?)
Let's see.
Console - £180 (no HDD)
Game --- £40
Extra controller - £30
Decent video cable (how bad is composite!!) - £20+
You are already upto over £270!!

Then look at this..
# Project Gotham Racing 3 & Extra Xbox 360 Wireless Controller
# Xbox 360 Console
# 20GB Hard Drive
# Wireless Pad
# Headset
# Face Plate
# Component HD AV Cable
# Ethernet Cable
# Xbox Live Silver membership
Funnily enough...£270..

No doubt I'll be flamed but once the novelty has worn off and you start to see developers struggling to come up with decent games because they feel obliged to use the controller, it will struggle. Again. :(
Red Steel is too bad for words.
I know it's only very early and games are first gen (or even GC switched games) and I really hope I'm wrong here - but I struggle to think that while they were busy developing the fantastic Wii remote, the other hardware team couldn't come up with something a bit more powerful... they say they start developing the new console as soon as the previous one is released.

OK, Sony reacted and added some tilt control to their PS3 controller but if the Wiimote does do well, it won't be long before M$ do something very similar and bring one out for the 360 - and then the Wii will look REALLY poor value in comparison.
Once the novelty wears off and people see that in reality it costs the same as another far more powerful machine, it will struggle. Sure, it's doing great now on hype and getting into peoples' homes for Christmas (or not..) but if it would have been £50 cheaper it would have got into a lot more over the next 6 months and had a much better foundation to build on.
Sorry to make a post like this when we're all still either busy playing it or still trying to get one but I just wanted to take a bit of a reality check....

Well...??.......................
 

stu.artd

Member
The shooting game in Play (as just one example) is a riot in two player mode in my experience. Simple and fun, just what I imagined it would be.

I don't see why another game has to be mentioned for the wii, there's only one (PGR3) included with the 360 in the price comparison, I only brought Wii Play in because it's £5 with the 2nd controller and is well worth that very small fee. I've still to even try Zelda and Monkey Ball on the Wii as Sports (primarily) and Play have taken up my wii'ing time.

I agree that the idea will be copied, but how long that takes and how much support any such development(s) is/are given are unknown. You just need to look at the wide support the 360's camera has(n't) had so far.
 

SeaneyC

Active Member
SJW, have you actually played on the Wii for an decent amount of time??

Be sceptical all you want. I usually buy into the latest tech with a bit of doubt, but it's what i do, and if i don't like what i get, i sell it. But then get some friends round, get the beers in, and then realise the true awesomeness that this console has achieved. Seriously, this underpowered white box of kid-friendly cartoon antics has changed gaming forever, for me at least.

No word of a lie, it's gone beyond mine, and all my friends expectations.

I used to own a 360, unfortunately i was burgled and it was taken, but lets just say i won't be replacing it soon. I consider myself to be a social gamer, and whilst i was "sucked in" whilst playing seriously long online sessions of GRAW, given the choice, i will buy the Wii again and again. The 360 looked amazing, and the online play was brilliantly executed. But simply put, the Wii has opened up the whole world of video gaming accessability wise to all camps.
 

drskhaled

Novice Member
there is one comparison which makes the wii overpriced, thats the fact that nintendo are making a profit on the wii whereas m$ and sony are taking a loss. Purely from this perspective with the 360 (and depending on how you look at it, with the ps3) we are getting a bargain. Having said that why shouldnt nintendo or any other console maker make a profit?

TBH i do feel the wii shouldve been nearer the £100 mark, but who am i to say this when its sold out everywhere, and thats with a numberof launch consoles far exceeding the paltry supply ofered by M$ and sony with their respective launch allocations.

At the end of the day 360 still offers the best value for money console on the market.
 

shagaboopon

Well-known Member
Valid points raised m8, I dont agree entirely as I side with some of the points mentioned in counter but time will tell if the Wii is overpriced or not.
 

Miyazaki

Novice Member
If Nintendo were losing as much as Sony on the PS3, Ninty would be paying people to have the Wii.

The controller is £45, most expensive controller ever, surely? Despite all the gubbins.

Still hasn't stopped me forking out though. :D
 

sjw

Well-known Member
lol:( Does I know it's only very early and games are first gen (or even GC switched games) and I really hope I'm wrong here seem like a 'fanboy' comment? If you're unwilling to accept any criticism at all the it's you who is the fanboy..
I was trying to give a fair representation of both sides - including the Wii's plus points.
The Wii has more consoles in circulation than the intire 360, and its been out for a year or so.
No it hasn't. In Japan it has.
I DON'T HAVE A 360. I'm just comparing it to the only other next-gen console out in this country.
SJW, have you actually played on the Wii for an decent amount of time??
Yes.
I'm just trying to have a bit of an intelligent 'open' debate.
But simply put, the Wii has opened up the whole world of video gaming accessability wise to all camps.
No arguments there.
 

BOFH_UK

Active Member
Umm, the Wii is clearly not overpriced. Why do I say this? One simple argument, if it WAS overpriced it wouldn't be flying off store shelves at the rate it is and people would not be paying considerably more than list price to get a console from E-bay. So no, Nintendo got the right price for the conditions surrounding the launch. The argument about it getting into a lot more homes if it was £50 cheaper is ludicrous for one simple reason - THERE ARE NO MORE MACHINES TO SELL! Once stock is sitting on shelves then Nintendo can look at a price drop if necessary, or pack in an extra wiimote, until then they'd be crazy to do so.

As for comparing it to the 360, I don't agree at all with the original poster. For a kick off they list the Hard Drive as a feature of the 360 but ignore the built in memory of the Wii which serves exactly the same purpose. They add an extra game for the Wii despite it coming with Wii Sports as standard, hence matching the 360 pack-in deal listed. The wireless functionality has already been covered. Most importantly, the price listed of £270 is an internet price, the retail price is clearly shown on the linked site as being £300.

Honestly, I'm getting so very very tired of seeing the same old arguments trotted out as to why the Wii will fail. Looking at the launch line-up I'd say that while it's not a fantastic effort it's certainly on a par with or better than all modern console launches back to, what, the PS2? One true AAA game from day one in the form of Zelda, a couple of solid games (one of which is the pack-in) and at least a couple more decent titles scheduled for release fairly soon in the form of Excitetruck and Trauma Centre. Yes, some games have control issues but, from what I've read, these are not inherent faults with the Wii, just the developers getting the details wrong.

More importantly, when did gamers loose the ability to judge things from a perspective other than their own? Yes, for the hardcore gamer the 360 is the better console right now, make no mistake about that. But there is clearly a market out there beyond that group. That market is made up of many, many categories and ranges from the kid-friendly family orientated console through to people, well, people like me who started gaming in the days of tape drives and have become bored with the ongoing rush into graphics nirvana. There's only a certain number of times you can headshot someone after all. This is the market that made Nintendogs such a huge success. This is the market that is waiting for the next brain age to turn up on the Wii. This is the market that wants to play classic franchises with different controls even if it does mean relearning everything because it's something new and interesting. This is the market that sees the DS outsell everything else in Japan put together (on some weeks anyway). This is the market that the Wii is primarily aimed at and this is a market which is potentially much, much larger than the hardcore gamer.

In short, as with all consoles, the price will come down, the games will get more plentiful and improve in quality across the board, the hardware will be pushed harder, graphics will improve, control issues will be sorted out and we will finally see the back of silly console flame wars. Well, maybe not the last one, that would probably take the second coming...

And finally, an apology. This was meant to be a short reply to the OP and turned into more of a rant that is most definitely NOT targeted at the OP or anyone else here. It's just frustration at seeing so many flamewars on this very subject on all the gaming web sites without any attempts made to see things from another perspective.
 

dannius

Well-known Member
So many moaners! ;) I bet most of the 300,000 people that have one sitting under their telly (or xmas tree) aren't moaning about the price.

Ok, so the Wii is brand new out, is slightly more powerful than a Xbox, has wifi built in, has a revolutionary control system, and comes with a 5 game sports pack. At £179.

Here's a comparision for you, a PSP value pack is also £179. It's a lovely machine don't get me wrong, but it's 1 1/2 years old, needs a bigger memory stick to be able to do anything, it has a dead in water movie format, a very dry games release schedule and comes with no games.

I know which console most would rather have.

The DS has shown that graphics do not matter one jot to the mass market, it is and will be the best selling console of this xmas in all territories. I fully expect the Wii to follow suit in the home market when it becomes established.

I have criticised Nintendo in the past, as I felt they were out of touch in the GC generation. But I feel they have made massive strides in the last 2 years and will probably regain their place as the top hardware manufacturer this generation.

The price to me seems about right.
 

BOFH_UK

Active Member
there is one comparison which makes the wii overpriced, thats the fact that nintendo are making a profit on the wii whereas m$ and sony are taking a loss. Purely from this perspective with the 360 (and depending on how you look at it, with the ps3) we are getting a bargain. Having said that why shouldnt nintendo or any other console maker make a profit?

TBH i do feel the wii shouldve been nearer the £100 mark, but who am i to say this when its sold out everywhere, and thats with a numberof launch consoles far exceeding the paltry supply ofered by M$ and sony with their respective launch allocations.

At the end of the day 360 still offers the best value for money console on the market.
Actually, last I heard MS were making a profit on the 360 now. Not much of one, granted, but a few bucks at least. Sony, on the other hand, better start praying for a very high attach rate as they've got at least a couple of hundred dollars to make back for each console sold at the moment. Granted, at the rate they're making PS3's that only makes them about $17,000 in the hole but still, could be a problem in a few years :D
 

stu.artd

Member
So many moaners! ;) I bet most of the 300,000 people that have one sitting under their telly (or xmas tree) aren't moaning about the price.

Ok, so the Wii is brand new out, is slightly more powerful than a Xbox, has wifi built in, has a revolutionary control system, and comes with a 5 game sports pack. At £179.

Here's a comparision for you, a PSP value pack is also £179. It's a lovely machine don't get me wrong, but it's 1 1/2 years old, needs a bigger memory stick to be able to do anything, it has a dead in water movie format, a very dry games release schedule and comes with no games.

I know which console most would rather have.

The DS has shown that graphics do not matter one jot to the mass market, it is and will be the best selling console of this xmas in all territories. I fully expect the Wii to follow suit in the home market when it becomes established.

I have criticised Nintendo in the past, as I felt they were out of touch in the GC generation. But I feel they have made massive strides in the last 2 years and will probably regain their place as the top hardware manufacturer this generation.

The price to me seems about right.
Slightly OT here, but for me the best PSP game is LocoRoco - and the graphics in it although cute/cartoony are not close to the best the PSP is capable of. I really like the game for the same reason I think the wii will be a huge success - because it's fun and that's something that's being lost these days in my opinion.
 

SeaneyC

Active Member
Yes.
I'm just trying to have a bit of an intelligent 'open' debate.
Fair enough, it was an open question. I've had i think about 12 people play on my Wii now. Every single one of them was a bit hesitant at first, but after playing, every single one of them thinks that it is the most fun they've had with others whilst playing on a console. I think we can agree that this is no mean feat. My friends range from hardcore gamers to hardcore anti gamers, which makes this achievement even more impressive.

I'm yet to unleash it on my female friends however, which i suspect will be the real test!

I would have to say though that locked in a room on my own for a few hours you can't beat a good session of 360.

Having said that i used to play Counter Strike religiously on my own, with only my net buddies for company. Draw whatever conclusions you can from that..... :D
 

sjw

Well-known Member
Umm, the Wii is clearly not overpriced. Why do I say this? One simple argument, if it WAS overpriced it wouldn't be flying off store shelves at the rate it is
Flying off shelves doesn't mean it isn't overpriced. I was one of the mugs who queued for the N64 at £250. Which was then slashed in price weeks later. Nintendo lost a lot of fans then. GC was a failure in this country with few shops selling the stuff eventually.
If they do that again (sell loads and then drop the price) they'll lose out again in the long run (imho).
the built in memory of the Wii which serves exactly the same purpose.
Oh dear, a 20GB drive can be (and is) used for many others things than downloading small (upto around 32MB?) games and saving games.
I wasn't aware the 360 couldn't be wired upto the internet 'out of the box' - sorry.
This is the market that made Nintendogs such a huge success. This is the market that is waiting for the next brain age to turn up on the Wii. This is the market that wants to play classic franchises with different controls even if it does mean relearning everything because it's something new and interesting. This is the market that sees the DS outsell everything else in Japan put together (on some weeks anyway). This is the market that the Wii is primarily aimed at and this is a market which is potentially much, much larger than the hardcore gamer.
Agree completely - well made point.

I have never owned a M$ console either and have owned every Nintendo one.
 
Having said that i used to play Counter Strike religiously on my own, with only my net buddies for company. Draw whatever conclusions you can from that..... :D
Now you just chat to your forum buddies about playing with your net buddies...the beginning of a very slippery slope...:eek:
 
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