I see judder everywhere!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by MI55ION, Sep 20, 2007.

  1. MI55ION

    MI55ION
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    Here it is, why is it that I see judder almost everywhere during HD playback, am I going insane?

    It's not just in those slow panning scences that people talk about, it's present almost everywhere, during the slightest movement of the camera to even an actor moving their head. I wonder, is it like the rainbow effect with DLPs where some see it but are not troubled whereas other just can not stand it?

    For me, it's become very annoying at this stage, I simply can't enjoy a movie with so much jerkiness. Heck, watching Blu-ray on 1080p/24 via the PS3 is like a godsend compared to this. Anyone else notice it or even bovered by it at all?

    Aarrgh!

    EDIT: Just for clarification, this has nothing to do with the latest 2.2 firmware update.
     
  2. brian s

    brian s
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    Is this following your firmware update?

    All the best
    Bri
     
  3. TechieSarah

    TechieSarah
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    Have to say I dont see it, but common consensus is 1080p/24 is coming very soon in a firmware update.
     
  4. MI55ION

    MI55ION
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    Nope it's always been there, just that it's something that's been bugging me from day one, ever since I first got the 360 add-on but I wasn't sure if it was just me and I'm curious to know whether anyone else is plagued by this symptom.
     
  5. brian s

    brian s
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    I've got one bad disc but even this isn't as bad as what you describe. I don't think we're going to see the 24 fps update for a while. Get in contact with Toshiba. You've got a dud there.

    Cheers
    Bri
     
  6. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Hi MI55ION
    The only one that i've noticed judder on with Xe1 is "Planet Earth".
    On pans that was terrible,real jerky! :mad:
    Everything else....can't say i noticed it.
     
  7. MI55ION

    MI55ION
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    I don't know about that, I've had 3 360 add-ons, an E1 and of course the XE1, visible judder/jerkiness on all of them, however, I don't see it with regular DVDs.
     
  8. MI55ION

    MI55ION
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    Oh, don't mention that one, it's physically sickening. :eek: :D Give's me the judder to think about it aarrgm, :cough:
     
  9. brian s

    brian s
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    I thought you were talking about the XE1 as you posted in the 2.2 firmware thread. There's something well wrong if you seen bad judder on all these machines. Were they on your own gear? If so is it set up correctly? I tested my problem disc on another XE1 and my son's 360. It played the same as on my machine. Other HD DVDs play ok. I also tested it on an E1 and it played much worse.

    Best wishes
    Bri
     
  10. kingfats

    kingfats
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    Well,hopefully the 1080/24 will sort out your problems!
    That's when we finally get it and it's bug free of course. :rolleyes:
    Does your display accept 1080/24....i know my MATSUI does not.:rolleyes:
     
  11. MAW

    MAW
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    Mission, it's due to your display, not the HD-DVD. What are you watcing on? It's not handling the 3:2 pulldown correctly.
     
  12. b0se

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    This has to be a display problem. What screen are you running?

    Edit: Hadn't seen MAW's post above.
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    Shared innovation! Be interested to know what settings the X box is running too. If it's set to 1080/60p then you'll be nobbling the display's ability to detect film, so then it would be the settings fault. It needs to be on 1080i for movies, and you need to have a compatible display. If it's a Sony, you are up the creek.
     
  14. MI55ION

    MI55ION
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    I'm running it on a Toshiba 52WM48 DLP telly and a Pananoic AX100 projector, I've seen it (judder/jerkiness/not-so-smooth playback or whatever it's called) on my friends Panasonic (not sure about model) plasma too.

    Could it be that I'm just used to PAL DVDs or that all the displays above can not handle 3:2 pulldown. MAW, could you explain what process the display goes through to handle 3:2 pulldown correctly? I presume the more upmarket displays only have this ability?

    I'm very surprised that others haven't come forward with this issue although I'm aware of the 24p update to make this all go away... :lease:
     
  15. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Personally I think there is something extra wrong with the XE1/XA2, it adds judder/stutter to the already juddery 3:2. I've had my XE1 since March and havn't been able to watch anything on it properly since. Luckily I still have an E1 which works fine.

    I'm going to do some tests on it later to see if I can get to the bottom of it and probably call Toshiba to moan again since the September firmware they promised hasn't worked. (Even if it's not the formware updated they intended)
     
  16. Bald Monkey

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    I've noticed judder using the Xbox addon connected via VGA at 720P to both my Tosh 32" LCD and my 720P PJ . Most noticably on Planet Earth.. (to be precise when using PJ Xbox set to 720P, when using LCD set to 1360x768)

    However it's not that distracting in the majority of HD-DVD's I have.. Looking forward to 1080/24p eventually however with a new player, LCD/Plasma and PJ to all upgrade.. it's not going to be next week. :D

    The judder isn't ideal but it's not too bad IMO, good enough to be planning on getting a new standalone HD-DVD player... :confused:
     
  17. MI55ION

    MI55ION
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    Oh thank god... thought I was losing it! :D

    Jeff, I look forward to your results.
     
  18. google

    google
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    I'm on my 3rd HD-E1. The first one I bought was unwatchable because of judder. I rang Toshiba and they replaced it. The 2nd one they sent me was better but was unwatchable again. I asked Toshiba for my money back. I then decided to have another go (this was in January) and bought another one from John Lewis. This was much better than the other 2 but could still notice judder. I kept this one. Since buying the 3rd one each subsequent firmware update has improved the judder. The latest 2.2 seems to have all but got rid of it, only slight on certain scenes I watch. Unnoticable really, unless you're really looking for it. I'm watching on a PX60.
     
  19. Bald Monkey

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    MI55ION,

    I've just recieved my HDMI splitter... the one you suggested. :smashin:

    And then I just had a thought... :rolleyes: :D have you checked that the judder isn't caused/exagerated by the splitter? :(
     
  20. Peter Galbavy

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    Eek! Firmware 2.2 on the XE1 and my new copy of the Heroes series. The first episode is judder-pan-judder city!

    I hope this gets somehow addressed by the 24p update - in the meantime I am thinking about trying 60i delivery to the TV to see if it does a better job at deinterlacing...
     
  21. Avi

    Avi
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    Mission

    I notice a type of jumpy edginess throughout most HD DVD at 1080i/60 on my plasma. I also put it down to deinterlacing and the fact that the panel uses a 60hz internal refresh. HD DVD at 1080p/24 is much more fluid looking on my PJ.

    I agree with MAW that the display video processing may be the problem you see.

    AVI
     
  22. neilneil

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    Re: I see judder everywhere!

    Is this restricted to US 3/2 pulldown stuff or does it appear on PAL 50fps (4% speeded up) stuff as well?

    -Neil
     
  23. Rob100

    Rob100
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    I use 1080i from my HD-A1 (and my PS3) into my Lumagen, IVTC and 1280x720 @ 47.952 out to my PJ and there's no judder.

    I guess as others have said you are seeing 3:2 pulldown. I can spot 3:2 pulldown a mile off and it drives me crazy...

    Rob.
     
  24. Rob100

    Rob100
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    Are you asking the OP this or are you asking the question?
     
  25. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I do think several versions of judder are being talked about here. 3:2 is the classic and I think most panels do this poorly (the main problem here) and I think this is where the biggest issue is, however I remain to be convinced that the XE1 / XA2 is working correctly in any mode and still needs 'fixing' by firmware update I think but the Reon chip range does not have a good pedigree at 24 / 48. It is the reason I have bought neither players or video processors using it. All IMHO.
     
  26. Jeff

    Jeff
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    That's pretty much what I'm doing to although the Lumagen is outputting 1080P @47.952Hz. The E1 is smooth, the XE1 has occational stutter. The question is, is it a problem with my unit or is there something wrong with the XE1 firmware/design? I've logged a call with Toshiba, I'll see what they come up with.
     
  27. Ned Senior

    Ned Senior
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    In my copy of "full metal jacket" the judder is now gone in the first barrack room scene where the gunnery seargeant introduces himself to the troop... this is on my E1 with FW ver. 2.2 updated last night 19th September 2007
     
  28. neilneil

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    I was asking generally. 3/2 pulldown judder in region 1 DVD's I am familiar with and I can live with it because I don't have that many region 1 DVD's.
    However, if this is something else then that is a bit off putting. I seem to recall someone saying that 50fps playback was a bit of an afterthought with some HD players and wonder if this was what is being seen here?

    It's a great shame that when the standards for HDTV were formed they didn't insist on 24, 50 and 60 fps playback capabilities in all displays and mediums. This would have been an ideal opportunity to get rid of a worldwide TV/Cinema incompatibility.

    -Neil
     
  29. booth1976

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    This is so weird. I'm watching Blu Ray on a PS3 connected via HDMI to a Panasonic TH42PX70. Very rarely am I seeing judder, everything seems fine.

    Will I get judder if I connect a HD DVD player to the PX70 is what I'm thinking :rolleyes:
     
  30. HawkeyeGnu

    HawkeyeGnu
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    Absolutely. 1080p at 60Hz is and always will be juddery for 24fps film material eg HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. 1080i at 60Hz can be judder free, but only if your panel does 24/48/72/96/120Hz with proper inverse telecine (eg Pioneer plasmas in ADV mode). If your display can't reverse telecine a 1080i 24Hz source or accept 24p without converting to 60Hz again, you are screwed. Period.

    Well, an XE-1 through a Pioneer plasma with 1080i output and ADV de-interlacing is fantastic and judder free at 72Hz.

    The REON chip wouldn't be used at all in any 24p pass through mode as it's a de-interlacing chip :confused: (if the XE-1 pass-through mode is true -seems that there is a timing issue with the 2.5 firmware in the US at the moment). HD-DVD's are after all natively 1080 24p. I can't understand your point.

    Just trying to cut through the cr*p. HD-DVD is great quality, and the Toshiba players are fine. Unfortunately there are a lot of "HD" displays out there that will NEVER be able to show HD-DVD or Blu-Ray without judder due to the inability to refresh at a multiple of 24Hz.
     

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