Question I need more power (insert Tim Allens voice)

[BOUNCINGNRG]

Well, i hope this is the correct place for this post, its a bit of a avr/power amp question.

Bit of background, i purchased my 1st home cinema kit over a year ago
Fronts: Kef q500
Centre: Kef q200c
Surrounds: Kef q100
Heights: Kef cr160qr x4
Sub: BK xxls400df
AVR Denon x4200w
Power Amp: Marantz pm7004 (fronts)

All these were purchased 2nd hand except for the ceilings and the sub, i was really happy with the set up but as time has gone on, i just feel its not enough for my room - its a shared space, lounge/dinning, its about 2800ft3(5x8m)

So i have 95% decided on upgrading to the KEF R700, R600C, either the R100 or 300 depending on remaining budget, and the sub i'll prob upgrade to a dual bk mono plus.

Anyway, my question is, is my current AVR/Power Amp enough to run those R series speakers, or would it be worth upgrading the power amp to something like the Marantz PM8005 and use the 7004 to take care of the rears, thus the avr only powering the centre and heights?

Hope this all makes sence.

p.s i should add i'm about 70% film and 30% Music

 

[gibbsy]

The R Series do like power, they really come alive when given sufficient. The 70 watts that the 8005 will deliver may be enough but I drive my R300s with 105 watts and they sound superb and you may regret limiting the power on tap from the Marantz especially with R700s. I don't know how far down the Marantz will dip but the R700s are capable of sustained sub 4 ohms.

I almost bought a pm8005 to compliment my sa8005 player but couldn't source one to audition. It was it's HT ability that was important, probably as it is to you. I eventually got a more powerful Rega Elicit-R and I believe this would certainly be better for the R700s, unfortunately it's twice the price of the Marantz.

 

[BOUNCINGNRG]

The R Series do like power, they really come alive when given sufficient. The 70 watts that the 8005 will deliver may be enough but I drive my R300s with 105 watts and they sound superb and you may regret limiting the power on tap from the Marantz especially with R700s. I don't know how far down the Marantz will dip but the R700s are capable of sustained sub 4 ohms.

I almost bought a pm8005 to compliment my sa8005 player but couldn't source one to audition. It was it's HT ability that was important, probably as it is to you. I eventually got a more powerful Rega Elicit-R and I believe this would certainly be better for the R700s, unfortunately it's twice the price of the Marantz.

Thanks for the quick response, that amp looks lush.

I've heard the term where a speak dips down, how/what does this mean? I thought if it's 8ohm that's what is is?

Sorry, still learning on all the tech stuff.

 

[gibbsy]

The R700 can dip to 3.2 ohm. Not all signals delivered to any speaker will be at a constant 8 ohms, that is just the median norm. The dip comes from the source, vinyl etc, if a speaker, or amp cannot go that low then that information may be lost or distorted. The better quality speakers can sustain those dips and they should be paired with an amp will bring the very best out of them.

My Elicit-R easily drives my R300s and I would highly recommend it with the R Series, old and new. Only downside to the Rega is that it doesn't have a headphone socket.

Perhaps some more technically minded member might be able to describe it better.

 

[Deleted member 39241]

Another option is to sell or part-ex your separates and get an AVR that is more capable in terms of power and musical ability.

I used to have a Denon 4400 + Musical Fidelity M3i + 2 power amps. Everything worked and music and movies sounded lovely. But it was not a family friendly, or pretty set-up.

I now have an Arcam AVR550, which sounds lovely, comes with Dirac, and has adequate power. I tried it with and without my power amps, decided that the power amps were not adding anything so sold them. I do use an external DAC for music (Roksan K3) but that is more personal preference i think, as plenty of other people seem happy with the DAC on the Arcam, I found it a bit bright, the Roksan is very warm.

I don't think the price difference between the two options is that large, especially if you can part-ex some of your existing equipment, or sell it privately to recoup some costs. There are often open box / ex-demo Arcam 550's available with full warranty for around the £2k mark.

 

[Joe Fernand]

'i just feel its not enough for my room - its a shared space' - your room and room layout may be a (big) part of your problem.

How is your room/the AV system laid out?

Joe

 

[deadrabbit]

I use KEF R500 (new) with Cambridge Audio CXR200 in bi-amping configuration with
Audioquest Rocket 44 LS cables. My room is 7m x 4m. I do like the sound - very much detailed and excellent sound stage - all those nuances are there - I do like jazz music. I did use Marantz (two of them) before - I do like the CA much better.

 

[BOUNCINGNRG]

'i just feel its not enough for my room - its a shared space' - your room and room layout may be a (big) part of your problem.

How is your room/the AV system laid out?

Joe

I have no doubt the room is playing a part bit being a shared family space I'm limited to what I have for placement & room treatment.

Excuse the not to scale drawing

Floor is laminate on top of concrete slab, tv, left and rear walls are dot&dab, the right wall is a stuff wall.

 

[Joe Fernand]

'Floor is laminate on top of concrete slab' - that will always make following dialogue tricky, a rug between the seating and the Front LCR is always worth trying out.

'Shared Space' - having the 'open' rear wall behind your seating area is going to be problematic, have you tried running the system without the Surround, Rear and Overhead channels?

Joe

 

[BOUNCINGNRG]

@deadrabbit & @Rambles a high end car is certainly an option, esp as they have decent DACs and a good all in one solution, having 3 little kiddos, having less equipment is certainly safer.

The Arcams won't do a atmos setup with out separate amps and the Cambridge don't do atmos or dtsx at all which is a total bumer, as the both look amazing.

I'm going to ad the Rega Elicit-R to my audition list, I'd rather spend more than be left wanting.

Another AMP that has grabbed my attention is the Roksan K3 - although I can't seem to find a definitive power rating, Richer Sounds are saying 70w, Roksan are saying 140w and whathifi are saying 150w - strange there isn't any continuity. One thing that is raising a little flag for me is a few people are complaining of buzzing/humming when using HT bi pass.

 

[Deleted member 39241]

The Arcam's can do 5.1.2 out of the box, you would need additional amps for more channels than that, up to 7.1.4.

 

[BOUNCINGNRG]

The Arcam's can do 5.1.2 out of the box, you would need additional amps for more channels than that, up to 7.1.4.

True, I have a 5.1.4 so i would need that separate amp :-(

 

[beerhov]

@deadrabbit & @Rambles...I'm going to ad the Rega Elicit-R to my audition list, I'd rather spend more than be left wanting.

Another AMP that has grabbed my attention is the Roksan K3 - although I can't seem to find a definitive power rating, Richer Sounds are saying 70w, Roksan are saying 140w and whathifi are saying 150w - strange there isn't any continuity. One thing that is raising a little flag for me is a few people are complaining of buzzing/humming when using HT bi pass.

The buzzing/humming is likely to be down to a ground loop and can be a pain to fix; I’ve unfortunately got one (might be my TV) so currently unable to run my Kandy K2 with my AV amp.

Might be worth testing any amp you can with the HT bypass to check before investing?

I'd highly recommend Roksan, they have bags of power (depth/clarity) and would say the manufactures numbers are good to go by. Just looked on fleabay and Caspians can be had for ½ price.