I Know The Cost Of Everything Is Going Up But....

Thing is you are comparing companies which are large enough to warrant that level of overhead. There is a huge industry of sole traders either working by themselves or just a handful of staff.
I'm now a sole trader who employs subcontractors.
All construction-based companies have the same IT admin facilities, They tend to be a simplified version. It's not 1920 where someone is using a typewriter.
Most importantly managing expectations and payments are identical, larger companies have these same issues x100.

How many customers fail to understand simple payment terms.

Payment upon receipt of invoice.
For instance, an invoice arrives in the customer's inbox at @3 pm with clearly written terms and account details. Which is normally a reiteration of payment terms and conditions written on the quote.

Let's make the business wait a few days, weeks, there's an mm mark on my carpet, or I don't like the spray pattern on my new tap, the wife has left me, they came 10 mins late, they used my toilet, I've heard it all etc, etc.

My first ever boss, told me when he first started in business, he used to personally go sit in peoples living rooms until they paid. 🤣
 
Think we seem to be getting off track here
 
Thing is you are comparing companies which are large enough to warrant that level of overhead. There is a huge industry of sole traders either working by themselves or just a handful of staff.

I'm a sole trader, don't ever use any sub contractors, just my own private work and I sub contract to other companies.

Not being big headed but I'm very good at my job, the actual physical part of being an electrician, but the admin side not so much, I'm generally quite disorganised behind the scenes, the one thing I will always try to be though is reliable with the actual work on site, not had any complaints so far so guess I'm doing something right.
 
What does that mean?

Here's how I see it.
Customer expectation (Based on x themselves, their project).
Tradespersons reality (Based on a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j,k etc, etc).
It means this:
me: please can you quote on this job
tradesperson: yes I will be there on x date
tradesperson: <turns up on x date> I'll get the quote over to you in x days
me: great, thanks
me: receives quote on date. Accepts costs. Confirms I want the job done.
tradesperson: <turns up on agreed date, does job> all done, here's the invoice
me: <pays invoice> thanks!

If you don't want my job, tell me. If you can't make the date, tell me. If the cost changes before work commences, tell me.
 
Its a tricky one, quite often tradespeople are very good at actually doing the trade but they under estimate the over head of running a business, doing paperwork (especially tax), chasing leads, doing quotes (you will be surprised at the percentage of quotes which have cost you time and money that don't materialise into a job), managing inventory, cash flow etc.

At the same time customers need to realise that cost of a job isn't just x amount of labour + materials.
That is why they either build that into their costs, or are transparent about it.
 
I'm a sole trader, don't ever use any sub contractors, just my own private work and I sub contract to other companies.

Not being big headed but I'm very good at my job, the actual physical part of being an electrician, but the admin side not so much, I'm generally quite disorganised behind the scenes, the one thing I will always try to be though is reliable with the actual work on site, not had any complaints so far so guess I'm doing something right.
That's because the admin side is another job in itself.

I quite like the admin side, hate the tool side now I'm older.
 
That's because the admin side is another job in itself.

I quite like the admin side, hate the tool side now I'm older.

I'm the exact opposite, would much rather be on the tools, which is a good thing as I'll probably have to keep doing it for a few years yet...
 
I'm now a sole trader who employs subcontractors.
All construction-based companies have the same IT admin facilities, They tend to be a simplified version. It's not 1920 where someone is using a typewriter.
Most importantly managing expectations and payments are identical, larger companies have these same issues x100.

How many customers fail to understand simple payment terms.

Payment upon receipt of invoice.
For instance, an invoice arrives in the customer's inbox at @3 pm with clearly written terms and account details. Which is normally a reiteration of payment terms and conditions written on the quote.

Let's make the business wait a few days, weeks, there's an mm mark on my carpet, or I don't like the spray pattern on my new tap, the wife has left me, they came 10 mins late, they used my toilet, I've heard it all etc, etc.

My first ever boss, told me when he first started in business, he used to personally go sit in peoples living rooms until they paid. 🤣

I don't envy you at all, dealing with people. It must a total bloody pain in the arse.
 
I'm politely trying to say most non-trades are talking nonsense.

Indeed, rather like the thread about ‘work-shy’ GP’s - it really boils my piss!
 
I'm now a sole trader who employs subcontractors.
All construction-based companies have the same IT admin facilities, They tend to be a simplified version. It's not 1920 where someone is using a typewriter.
Most importantly managing expectations and payments are identical, larger companies have these same issues x100.

How many customers fail to understand simple payment terms.

Payment upon receipt of invoice.
For instance, an invoice arrives in the customer's inbox at @3 pm with clearly written terms and account details. Which is normally a reiteration of payment terms and conditions written on the quote.

Let's make the business wait a few days, weeks, there's an mm mark on my carpet, or I don't like the spray pattern on my new tap, the wife has left me, they came 10 mins late, they used my toilet, I've heard it all etc, etc.

My first ever boss, told me when he first started in business, he used to personally go sit in peoples living rooms until they paid. 🤣
Behave like that and wave goodbye to positive social media rating which is critical in domestic market.
 
This evening we got a call from the company to confirm we were still on for a Wednesday start but, due to a rise in cost of materials, our quote had gone from just shy of £7k to just short of £11k.

We had a major renovations project due to start in August. The original quote was £220k back in 2020 (his waiting list at the time was 12 months), the builder had to increase the quote to £270k due to material costs. He showed me the steels quote directly from the supplier, £40k original quote had jumped to £67k!!!

He had no choice but to pass the costs on, we therefore have delayed the start date to next summer to A: allow us to save up more, B: see if prices fall.

If prices don't fall, than we'll just get on with it. Things might get cheaper, but time waits for no one. If you can afford it, just get it done.
 
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Aren't quotes legally binding?

Most building 'contracts' aren't worth the time or paper they are written on. At the end of the day you are relying on a group of people to work on your home and they rely on you to pay them.

If your relationship with the builders at the start of the project has so little trust you are nit-picking at contracts/quotes you might as well not bother starting the project.

There is enough stress in building projects with just getting the job done, if you don't trust the builder than its not a good start. Equally its ridiculous to expect builders to work on a project at a loss, unless you want them to cut corners and do a rubbish job on your home.

Having seen friends go through the process and looking at our project, I've given up any idea on a set 'budget'. If you are doing the work as an 'investment' its a different matter, as a project to make your home better.....It'll cost what it costs.
 
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Most building 'contracts' aren't worth the time or paper they are written on. At the end of the day you are relying on a group of people to work on your home and they rely on you to pay them.

If your relationship with the builders at the start of the project has so little trust you are nit-picking at contracts/quotes you might as well not bother starting the project.

Exactly this, why are you employing people who you don't trust ?
 
My first ever boss, told me when he first started in business, he used to personally go sit in peoples living rooms until they paid. 🤣
We treat those that work for us well, always pay our bills in a timely manner. If I had a supplier that behaved like that I'd change and drag it out. If he had labourers who thought that was funny I'd made sure they didn't earn a penny of me.

Please show some respect towards those who pay your bills.
 
Indeed, rather like the thread about ‘work-shy’ GP’s - it really boils my piss!
It doesn't annoy me, it's just pub talk.
It would be interesting to see to the complainants.
A. Physically do the work on a regular basis.
B. Make a profit and grow the business in the industry.
Behave like that and wave goodbye to positive social media rating which is critical in domestic market.

We treat those that work for us well, always pay our bills in a timely manner. If I had a supplier that behaved like that I'd change and drag it out. If he had labourers who thought that was funny I'd made sure they didn't earn a penny of me.

Please show some respect towards those who pay your bills.
The time period I'm talking about was in the 1970s when they were just starting. They were both ex-international sportsmen.
The company eventually worked on all the major M/E projects in this country, such as Heathrow, Meadowhall, Sheffield Townhall, The world student game accommodation.
Eventually, the company was sold to a public limited energy company for a considerable sum.

I think the same applies, please show some respect to those working in your home, there isn't a hierarchy, the business views yourself as a transaction, both parties wish the project to go as smoothly as possible. So you get what you want and the business is paid.

In any event, if you paid your bill, he wouldn't be sitting in your lounge would he? You have to take that within the context of the era and the domestic clientele he was working for.
 
It doesn't annoy me, it's just pub talk.
It would be interesting to see to the complainants.
A. Physically do the work on a regular basis.
B. Make a profit and grow the business in the industry.



The time period I'm talking about was in the 1970s when they were just starting. They were both ex-international sportsmen.
The company eventually worked on all the major M/E projects in this country, such as Heathrow, Meadowhall, Sheffield Townhall, The world student game accommodation.
Eventually, the company was sold to a public limited energy company for a considerable sum.

I think the same applies, please show some respect to those working in your home, there isn't a hierarchy, the business views yourself as a transaction, both parties wish the project to go as smoothly as possible. So you get what you want and the business is paid.

In any event, if you paid your bill, he wouldn't be sitting in your lounge would he? You have to take that within the context of the era and the domestic clientele he was working for.
If he did that in that era my dad would have thrown him out and he would never have seen his money. Not funny and not appropriate behaviour.

As you say it’s a transaction, so behave professionally.
 
If he did that in that era my dad would have thrown him out and he would never have seen his money. Not funny and not appropriate behaviour.

As you say it’s a transaction, so behave professionally.
It was an anecdotal tale to demonstrate the lengths people have to go to get customers to pay up on occasion.
These days a CCJ, a charge on the house is extremely effective.

I still don't understand why your making this about you or even your dad.
 
Most building 'contracts' aren't worth the time or paper they are written on. At the end of the day you are relying on a group of people to work on your home and they rely on you to pay them.

I had a major extension done to my house, and initially I wanted a contract drawn up. None of the builders I approached would do that. One stated that there are far too many variables to write a complete contract.
In the end the builder I got in cut all kinds of corners, some of which I later found when it came time to sell the house.
What can you do? You have to trust people to do a decent job.
 
What can you do? You have to trust people to do a decent job.

This is why we are quite happy to wait for our current builder to be 'free' as his done loads of work in the area and we've seen his first hand.

Any builder who hasn't got a waiting list cannot be that good.
 
It was an anecdotal tale to demonstrate the lengths people have to go to get customers to pay up on occasion.
These days a CCJ, a charge on the house is extremely effective.

I still don't understand why your making this about you or even your dad.
Problem is your post makes it sound like this is some sort common industry practice or a valid means of pursue payments. You only need to look at consumer programs on TV to get the impression that the building trade in general is there to rip people off.

I've had a number of projects in excess of £10k and one I definitely felt they did a bad job (needed remediation work a few years later and of course the builder had liquidated) and he was a recommendation, other have been ok but felt I overpaid but they made the Mrs comfortable about working on the house so that was ok and quality of work has been fine. Then one who I thought was excellent and good value but moved abroad since.
 
Problem is your post makes it sound like this is some sort common industry practice or a valid means of pursue payments. You only need to look at consumer programs on TV to get the impression that the building trade in general is there to rip people off.

I've had a number of projects in excess of £10k and one I definitely felt they did a bad job (needed remediation work a few years later and of course the builder had liquidated) and he was a recommendation, other have been ok but felt I overpaid but they made the Mrs comfortable about working on the house so that was ok and quality of work has been fine. Then one who I thought was excellent and good value but moved abroad since.
If you think builders are dodgy and deliberately overcharge or rip you off, no amount of discussion will change your mind.
Nor will it change anybody else's mind.
 
If you think builders are dodgy and deliberately overcharge or rip you off, no amount of discussion will change your mind.
Nor will it change anybody else's mind.
I didn't say I think they are, I am saying there are consumer programs that show there are builders that are. They don't help the industry.
 
I didn't say I think they are, I am saying there are consumer programs that show there are builders that are. They don't help the industry.
There are bad apples in every industry. But just because a few builders are featured on consumer programs does not mean the 'building trade in general' is ripping people off.
 
It was an anecdotal tale to demonstrate the lengths people have to go to get customers to pay up on occasion.
These days a CCJ, a charge on the house is extremely effective.

I still don't understand why your making this about you or even your dad.
I’m not, you are the one using it like some excuse that it was ok to do that in the seventies. It wasn’t then, it is not now. It isn’t even funny.
 

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