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I have a grand, I want a camcorder..............

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Editing Forum' started by pizzed-monkey, Jul 12, 2002.

  1. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    ......but am getting snowed under by all these flippin' models!

    any nuggets of wisdom would be greatfully recieved......

    thankyou, thankyou, thankyou!

    my thoughts:

    I dont mind getting a second hand camera, as long as its in v.good condition.

    I will be editing on a G4 Mac, probably using final cut pro (still to be purchased).

    I'm looking towards the semi-pro miniDV end, but somehow I dont think my grand will stretch to a secong hand sony vx2000 or cannon XL1!!!Doh!. (this HAS to be my money limit and their both a bit huge as well!).

    I really need that LCD screen (so that counts out a second hand VX1000).

    I want to be able to change lens, add a pro mike etc.

    ....so the sony DCR pc100 and 110 and 120 all look tasty, ........but what do these have over the DCR pc9 and whats this new pc101 i've been hearing about?!?!? also whats the real difference between all these models?

    ....I've tried to stay away from even looking at other makes, but if there's a great model I'm missing out on let me know.......

    .........are there some other sony models between the DCR pc1**'s and the VX2000? I think there is, but I cant remember which they are!

    all these camera's, which one to get?!?!?!


    cheers!
    ****ed-monkey




    :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  2. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    ......now I see the cannon XM1 for about 1200 quid.......

    ......hadn't even concidered something like that........

    ......worth the extra over the sony pc-1** stuff?.........

    .....I think I need to think about this ALOT more...

    work out exactly what I need.......curses!:(




    cheers!
    pizzed-monkey
     
  3. Dubbing Mixer

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    Look also at the Panasonic 110 and 300 3 chip cameras. Both obsolete but still available at around 899 up. Both will give the Canon a run for the money and, if you shop hard will fir your budget better. (and, yes, any 3 chip will blow away the Sony single chip cams for DV)
     
  4. gringottsdirect

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    Investigate Panasonic NV-GX7B.
     
  5. Dubbing Mixer

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    p-monkey

    looking back at your original post I see you want to be able to 'change lens'. The only 'reasonably priced'!?! camera able to do this in the literal sense iis the Canon XL1(s) which is still well outside your stated price range. However, supplementary converter lenses can be fitted to most if not all others which either widen or lengthen the field of view. Unless you can stretch a lot further I wouldn't worry about this particular requirement. As for additional mics this is less of a problem as most coams can accept an external mic.
     
  6. CamcorderNovice

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    Not sure if this helps you but I have recently bought the Panasonic NV-GSX7. It is a really good camcorder but because I'm new at this I'm not sure if it holds all the facilities you may need.

    If you send me an e-mail and ask me what your looking for specifically (and simplified) I can give you as much information as I can.

    There are reviews on this camcorder in a magazine that was out last weekend if this helps.
     
  7. Guest

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    thanks for all the replys, I certainly have more camera's to chew over now!


    ........'lens converter' things is the way to go then, the reason I want this is my only filming experience is with 8mm & 16mm cameras (old skool fool!:D ) so I like to play around with different lens set ups and annoying things like that.......now I'm jumping into the digital film world I wanted to try an' have the same flexibility..........



    ........back to the hunt I go!:cool:




    pizzed-monkey II
     
  8. Dubbing Mixer

    Dubbing Mixer
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    P-monkey

    I too come from a film camera background (standard 8 through 16mm) and one of the real irritations with vieo cameras is the wide angle end of things. None of the domestic cams goes anywhere near wide enough for me. The quality of the converters is vary variable and none are even close to the quality I used to get with a Switar or (borrowed) Distagon. However, it is possible to 'mix and match' I.e. use one manufacturers converters on anothers cam.

    However, the limitations of video are more than made up for by the advantages. Non-linear editing on a PC or Mac is at a level of sophistication undreamt of in cine days. Best of all, sound, although it still requires due care and attention, is far less of a problem.

    Hope you find what you want. If you need answers to any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
     
  9. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    .......so I went down tottenham court rd today just to get a real feel for the different camera's I was interested in, how they looked in the flesh, check the prices against the internet etc etc......

    ......and of course a camera I hadn't even concidered jumped out at me........

    the Panasonic NV MX350

    ........a 3CCD camera with lots of manual control by the looks of it, and not as big as the Canon XM1 I had been sratching my head over.........

    ......the only thing is I haven't heard anyone talking about this model yet....:confused: .......anyone have one out there?

    seen a review even?

    ......first impression is its the perfect camcorder for me, great picture, lots of control, great lens, DV in/out etc, small enough to chuck about a bit, (but not as small as the Sony PC120)......


    .......I also managed to get an offer of 1270 quid for it without much haggling, more than I wanted to spend, but it seems worth it?

    any comments greatly recieved!

    :) :)

    cheers!
    pizzed-monkey
     
  10. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    Dubbing mixer,

    ........thinking about it, I guess the mx350 is the replacement for the panny's 110 / 300 you mentioned I should look out for earlier?


    .....if so, do you rate this range of cameras?

    The "hard sell" on tottenham Crt Rd seemed to suggest lots of manual control options, great picture, but I didn't see one powered up....


    ....if so, I see light at the end of the tunnel!;) .....even if I do break through me budget a little! :eek: :eek:


    cheers!
    pizzed-monkey
     
  11. Dubbing Mixer

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    Hi PM,

    If you check my earlier post you'll see I suggested the Panasonic 300 (or the one before it). Well, the 350 is just the updated version.

    I think it is probably preferable to the Canon but that's just my two pennorth.

    If you do fancy the Cannon, there's a new one due so you should be able to get a good deal on that too.
     
  12. Dubbing Mixer

    Dubbing Mixer
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    Sorry PM, beat me to it on the earlier reply!

    Yes, without seeing it I would rate it. SImply judging from the earlier models. For what it's worth I've had happier experiences with Panasonic than Sony or Cannon in recent years.
     
  13. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    Cheers Dubbing Mixer,

    looks like I shall be saving for an extra few weeks to get the mx350 then......the age of the cannon has put me off a bit now as well, over 2 years old now I think.....but im well sold on the 3cdd option over the pc120 as well.....



    thanks for your help!
    pizzed-monkey
     
  14. Dubbing Mixer

    Dubbing Mixer
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    Good stuff! Please let us know how you get on. (and don't forget to budget (bargain) for an extra high capacity battery when you finally flash the plastic.
     
  15. scook17

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    I got a Mx350 today, as I was after a 3 CCD camera. I considered the Canon XL1 or the Panasonic. The XL2 and Vx2000 were way out of the price range, but nice.

    Anyway, this camera has a couple of problems, or so it appears to me.

    1. It won't record from the S-Video input socket, so I can't transfer my Hi-8 tapes to Mini-DV.
    2. It uses 80 minute panasonic tapes as far as I can tell, which are somewhat 'better' quality.

    Compared to my Hi-8 TR3100 (now 7 years old), but the top of the range camera at the time, I as not particularly impressed with the picture quality. It's good, but not as nice as my Sony Hi-8.

    Maybe this is because I'm using the 60 minute tapes, which for some reason it records 80 minutes onto. I'm guessing they dropped the mpeg data rate to get 80 minutes onto the tape. Does anyone know?

    Kind Regards,
    Shane Cook.
     
  16. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    :confused: .....I'm not sure what you mean by your second point........my MX350 plays any tape I put in it.....

    .....at the moment I'm using the panasonic professional AY-DVM63PQ.....when I output to the TV the picture quality is GREAT! up there with the broadcast quality of the more expensive models......good colours, very sharp etc etc.


    maybe I'm not getting your point exactly, but it sounds like something is going wrong somewhere with your output?



    pizzed-monkey
     
  17. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    hang on, hang on, hang on........



    .....you haven't got the camera stuck in "long play" mode have you?!?!??!?!

    recording time becomes 1.5 times longer in this mode, quality could then be less?
    ;)


    ....check REC speed in RECORDING SETUP sub menu...........



    cheers!
    pizzed-monkey
     
  18. scook17

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    The MX350 operates in two modes, SP (80 minutes) and LP (120 minutes). Recording speed is set to SP, but I received some Panasonic 60 minutes tapes with it, not the 80 minute 'professional' DV tapes.

    I've just dug out the flyer that came with it. The 80 minute tapes are called 'DVM80 Super Linear Plus' and say 'DVC Professional' on them. I've also noticed they come in 60 minute versions as well, so it looks like the difference is 'Super Linear Plus' vs 'Linear Plus'

    As this is a digital format, how does this make any difference?

    Kind Regards,
    Shane Cook.
     
  19. pizzed-monkey

    pizzed-monkey
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    .....yeah, your right, being digital Lp or SP shouldn't affect picture "quality", but you might get more artifacts or something like that.

    ......I haven't got my camera with me at the moment to check but why would it only record 80min or 120 min - no matter the length of the cassette?

    .....I've only been using miniDV for a few weeks now so I could be completely wrong but:

    I'm using 63 min tapes (not mentioned on that flyer you talk about) surely the MX350 is recording 63 mins in SP and 94 in LP? not 80 and 120......

    ....is what your saying this: the camera checks the length of the tape first then adjusts its recording speed accordingly? thus if you give it one of those real short tapes (35min?) it slows right down and records 80min on it....hmm....sounds real wierd to me!

    when it says 80min SP and 120 LP isn't it just refering to the MAXIMUM recording times in those 2 setups? not the actual times no matter what the tape length.


    apologies if I've misunderstood what you've said in the first place of if I'm completely wrong in what I've said(highly likley this early in the morning!):)



    cheers!
    pizzed-monkey
     
  20. scook17

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    In all fairness to the camera I can't say it records 80 minutes on a 60 minute tape, because I only got it yesterday and I need to play with it a lot more before I'm happy with it. I'm going to get some of the 'Super Linear Plus' tapes today, so I'll see if they are any better.

    As regards to picture quality, I was referring to artefacts in the MPEG encoding. It's a semi-pro camera, cost me £1275, so I expected a lot from it. I'm fairly happy with it so far, yet disappointed with a few things. I'm annoyed they didn't include a firewire cable for example. The MPEG4 capture sucks for instance, and wasn't work bothering with. The picture is tiny and very blocky.

    One thing I like a LOT however, is the photo part of the camera. Overall I like the camera, but I'm just wondering if I would have been better of to have bought the Cannon XM1 instead, which is now around the same price.

    Kind Regards,
    Shane Cook.
     
  21. scook17

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    Actually I'm starting to like this camaera. Transfer from DV tape to PC is much better quality than with an analogue capture card. I made a video of a friend's wedding at the weekend. Quite good fun.

    Only two complaints. The camera is bottom loading, meaning you have to dissassemble the tripod every time you want to change tape. Secondly, the tapes last only for 60 minutes. Both of these I can live with.

    I just love this photo ability, it's neat. The photographer set up some great shots, and I could take zoomed photos from the camera on a tripod for nice steady shots. I found 128MB SD card for £55 so I quite like these to.

    I'm now quite pleased with my purchase.

    Kind Regards,
    Shane Cook.
     

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