I hate renting.

D

Deleted member 27989

Guest
As one of the “have nots” I’d welcome a crash, then the deposit my partner and I do have may be enough for us to get on the ladder.
And as one of the "haves" I welcome it as well. It is pointless to have something like that when you only need to spend the same or more on something else.

I'd like to see much more liquidity in the housing market.
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
You know (and I wouldn't wish this on anybody), I can't help feeling that a housing market crash is imminent.

I may be wrong and it will never happen, but all the elements are in place and I see little evidence that we have learnt any lessons from 12 years' ago.
It's feasible...but if we hard Brexit, it will spell certain doom for the UK economy if the housing market takes a dive.
 

logiclee

Well-known Member
Generation gap post!!

Had a discussion with a distant relative today as she came to offer advice to my Niece who is just starting uni.

We got to talking about differences in expectations and life planning.
She's 23, just finished Uni with £35k debt. So her priority now? She's going backpacking for 18months.
So if she gets good job when she gets back she'll start earning at 25. It's all OK as she wants to enjoy life.

Now at 25 I'd been earning good money for 10 years, had bought a property and was married. I'd also been paying in to a pension for 10 years.

The idea of 18 months touring around with a £35k debt and nowhere to live when she gets back is alien to me.

We then got onto later life discussions. I'm looking to either fully or semi retire at 55-57. My young relative said she'd have to look at that later in life.
I told her by then it's too late, you will be working into your 70's and you never know how your health will be.

I know She doesn't represent the entire uni population but certainly not the only one.

She says she'll always have the memories. But I wonder if her older self will judge those memories to be good or whether she'll wish her younger self had financially planned better.
 

Cobb

Distinguished Member
Good for her. Nothing wrong with taking some time off and seeing the world whilst she’s still young, healthy and free enough to experience it. She’s already £35K in the red so what’s the alternative? Work her socks off for the next 40yrs paying back that debt and possibly a monstrous mortgage in the hope that she’s finally free at 65 and can then go and see the world...

This is a generation often riddled with debt before they’ve gotten out of the starting gate, it’s suffocating and scary.
 

Miss Mandy

Moderator
I think that shows shows how different the world is now.
Earning good money in late teens or early 20s just isn't really possible any more. To earn decent money needs qualifications and its costs often large amounts of money to get them. Uni fees have gone up and grants have been abolished so the only way most people can afford uni is loans. As you can see with your niece that's £35k at least before they even start work.
With house prices and cost of living increasing at a far higher rate than wages, what's to plan for? There will unfortunately be a huge number of that generation who could spend 35-40 years or more paying for a house only to find themselves too old to then enjoy life. What's the point in that? I don't blame her at all for wanting to take time out now while she can.
 

deantown

Distinguished Member
I think that shows shows how different the world is now.
Earning good money in late teens or early 20s just isn't really possible any more. To earn decent money needs qualifications and its costs often large amounts of money to get them. Uni fees have gone up and grants have been abolished so the only way most people can afford uni is loans. As you can see with your niece that's £35k at least before they even start work.
With house prices and cost of living increasing at a far higher rate than wages, what's to plan for? There will unfortunately be a huge number of that generation who could spend 35-40 years or more paying for a house only to find themselves too old to then enjoy life. What's the point in that? I don't blame her at all for wanting to take time out now while she can.

Unfortunately there has always been a huge number of people who have spent 35-40 years or more paying for a house only to find themselves too old to then enjoy life. Get in the real World, life wasn’t all wine and roses back in the day. :)
 

nvingo

Distinguished Member
Unfortunately there has always been a huge number of people who have spent 35-40 years or more paying for a house only to find themselves too old to then enjoy life. Get in the real World, life wasn’t all wine and roses back in the day. :)
I think the big difference being alluded to, is that those starting out now will retire (late) without the funds to go see the world, because surviving and paying rent, and paying back student loans, is eating up all their earnings.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
I got my first mortgage at 40 and even then it was foisted on me as a condition of an early inheritance.

Owning is definitely cheaper than renting, but more enjoyable? Absolutely not. It's felt like a ball and chain around my ankle and I've never felt as trapped.

I am so glad I spent 18 years pissing about and enjoying myself with not much money, and even less responsibility, when I was young and healthy and full of energy.

I am not saying that anyone is wrong to be financially prudent and prescient at a young age, I'm just saying I was glad to have a choice.
 

DOBLY

Well-known Member
The other side is that you could (a few years ago) start earning enough at 18 to get a 25 year mortgage after a couple of years saving, which you could clear in less than 20 years with a bit of willpower. Perhaps those days are gone, but I don't think so. Sure, in London and the South East, but in other parts of the country it is still possible to finance a (modest) house purchase - the key thing is not to get in debt before you buy!
I work at a University, and at least 50% of the kidz there really shouldn't be - they are just incurring debt and delaying starting their real life, with the unreal expectation that their Degree will be a golden ticket - it won't be, it will be worth the same as having an A level was 30 years ago. OK, they will have a bucket full of "life experiences", many of which will come back to haunt them thanks to social media, but hey, what do I know about someone else's life.
 
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Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
Further education in Scotland has been massively devalued by making it free.

Institutes that before were colleges or polytechnics, that offered worthwhile practical qualifications or 2nd chance University entry, all rushed to become Universities themselves, offering cheap bums-on-seats "degrees" that are barely worth the paper they're printed on.

Unless you're at one of the "real" Scottish Uni's or a specific course in a few it's just a bit of life experience and some general student debt. The company I work for won't entertain even bothering to interview most candidates from these "new" Universities as the candidates just aren't up to the grade required.
 
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nvingo

Distinguished Member
...OK, they will have a bucket full of "life experiences", many of which will come back to haunt them thanks to social media, but hey, what do I know about someone else's life.
Whilst we might expect that posting drunken experiences on instagram could go against a job-seeker, in the future (or even already) the recruiter could have/have posted similar, making such candidates just as likely to be considered for important roles.
 

logiclee

Well-known Member
Good for her. Nothing wrong with taking some time off and seeing the world whilst she’s still young, healthy and free enough to experience it. .

I don't have a problem with any ones choices.

But I do have a problem when the same people who are making these choices tell me how hard they have it and how they will never be able to afford a property or be able to retire early.
Sure take a gap year or two and experience the world, when I was that age I was working 12 hour shifts 7 days a week in heavy industry and doing a degree at the same time.

Life's all about choices, but don't complain when those choices leave you with no option than to rent and work until you drop.

It's certainly not all young people. My nephew has been investing in himself, paying for courses, working for little money for experience. He's only 19 and living at home but now has a good job, no debt and a decent amount of savings.

I agree with a poster above, a large proportion of the Uni population shouldn't be there, they land themselves in debt for a meaningless degree with no real direction of what they want to do or where that degree will take them.
 

logiclee

Well-known Member
..
Double post
 

deantown

Distinguished Member
I got my first mortgage at 40 and even then it was foisted on me as a condition of an early inheritance.

Owning is definitely cheaper than renting, but more enjoyable? Absolutely not. It's felt like a ball and chain around my ankle and I've never felt as trapped.

I am so glad I spent 18 years pissing about and enjoying myself with not much money, and even less responsibility, when I was young and healthy and full of energy.

I am not saying that anyone is wrong to be financially prudent and prescient at a young age, I'm just saying I was glad to have a choice.

Doesn’t everyone have a choice?
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Doesn’t everyone have a choice?

Yes, but today's kids have far limited choices than we had (I should have explained that better).

For example:

1. I got a grant to go into Higher Education, and although I worked and studied in my final year, I didn't come out £50k in debt.

2. You could sign on then and you weren't constantly hassled to look for work nor forced onto stupid training programmes, there was more freedom to make your own life choices.

3. You got Housing Benefit that pretty much paid 100% of your rent, which is essential in the South East. Nowadays, down here, there is usually a rent shortfall which you have to make up from the rest of your benefits.

4. There were no zero hours contracts (nor minimum wage, admittedly) and my (hazy) recollection is that it was easier to live cheaply.

It was just easier to leave home and make your own way in the world as quickly as possible as a single person. It was practically unheard of for anyone over 30 still living with their parents but that's much more common now:

Nearly a million more young adults now live with parents – study
 

nvingo

Distinguished Member
Doesn’t everyone have a choice?
Choice?
1. The mortgage lender refuses you.
2. A credit search on behalf of the landlord puts you below top of the list. And you've paid for
that privilege, and will have to do so again for the next desired property.
3. Social landlords deem another applicant to be in more need.

I think many people don't have a choice.
 
D

Deleted member 51156

Guest
Anecdotal stories and opinions are all well and good, however, all governments, policy makers, statisticians, agencies, media outlets everywhere all over the world agree that house prices are too high. Especially comparative to current earnings and historically comparative to earnings.

In addition to that, there is NO correlation between how hard people think they worked in relation to the inflationary rise in house prices.
Its condescending to imply that "Back in my day, and what young'uns need is a kick up the back side". There's certainly an inter generational disconnect on this issue.
 

Qactuar

Distinguished Member
Anecdotal stories and opinions are all well and good, however, all governments, policy makers, statisticians, agencies, media outlets everywhere all over the world agree that house prices are too high. Especially comparative to current earnings and historically comparative to earnings.

In addition to that, there is NO correlation between how hard people think they worked in relation to the inflationary rise in house prices.
Its condescending to imply that "Back in my day, and what young'uns need is a kick up the back side". There's certainly an inter generational disconnect on this issue.
Exerting relative control over house building, versus population growth, will allow house prices to be manipulated, so to speak. It's in the interest of banks to have house prices as high as possible, to prop-up balance sheets :)
 
D

Deleted member 51156

Guest
Exerting relative control over house building, versus population growth, will allow house prices to be manipulated, so to speak. It's in the interest of banks to have house prices as high as possible, to prop-up balance sheets :)
There's nothing wrong with the securitization of the mortgage market to make money, however the old adage applies here, 'Too much of a good thing' ruined the market for everybody.
Interesting to note the banks have now securitized the car loan market. Whether that will eventually cause issues down the line only time will tell.

https://www.porterwright.com/conten...e-Auto-Loan-Securitization-Market-Crashes.pdf
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I remember reading about that a while ago. That looks even more doomed to failure than the manipulation of the mortgage market.*

How many people default on a car compared to a house and are the same companies deeming those securities worthy of a AAA issue credit grade, the same as they did with all the dross mortgage packages.


*Sidenote - S&P were knee deep in the mortgage/property crash by giving junk securities a AAA credit grade. What happened to them for this mass act of fraud?

A $77 million fine and not allowed to grade mortgage securities for a year. That's it.
 

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