I hate renting.

Cameron583

Well-known Member
This thread is more of a rant than anything - just need to get it off my chest!

Back in August 2018, I accepted a job for a company I'm now working for, approximately a month before my start date. I was living in Wales, and the job is based in Farnborough.

2 weeks before starting, I managed to view a property which I really liked, and made an offer. 7 days before starting, I received an email to say it was rejected, since I was a student (I'm on my placement year), even though I could pay 6 months upfront.

It was a frantic rush to find something suitable that I could move into a week later. I found the flat I'm now in later that evening, and based on the photos available online, made an offer (including the 6 months upfront). This was all paid for, and the day before I was due to move in, I received a call from the estate agents.

They explained that the previous tenants had not cleaned the property at all, and had painted a number of rooms without prior consent (mostly glitter-based pink). Since I'm quite a down-to-Earth person, I was happy to have it cleaned to a standard as best as possible in the short time frame, and that the painting would be arranged at a later date.

Naturally, the cleaning wasn't very good - it was more of a wipe down. Carpets were stained all over, and generally grimey throughout. No lightbulbs in the property, tumble drier broken, light sockets burned out due to faulty wiring, radiators not working in the property...

I used my father's vax carpet cleaner to power wash all carpets and bring them back, and spent a solid day cleaning the property to my standards (my last estate agents while at university had said that my property was the cleanest one they'd ever had handed back to them).

A couple of weeks go by, and nothing has been sorted. We wanted to unpack our furniture, so I rang the estate agents and agreed that I'd do the painting if they paid for the materials, saving them a fair amount of money.

I'm now almost 12 months into my tenancy, and all of the above issues still remain. I've chased them endlessly for months, and keep being told that it's in discussion with my landlord. I've had excuses that he's waiting for the deposit from the last tenants (even though I paid £6,600 upfront).

I'm now also being asked to provide proof that they said they would cover the costs of us to repaint the property.

I'm rather quite fed up with renting - I got hit hard in my last property due to my estate agents letting the property with an EPC of C, when, in actual fact, it was a G, resulting in energy bills of £300 pcm to keep the place not cold; it put me in debt by quite a bit, since I was a student with a finite amount of money.

So I've looked into buying, except that even with a £30,000 deposit, unless I manage to earn >£50,000 per annum, I can't afford to buy a reasonable property in a reasonable area in the south east.

Renting is controlled by landlords and estate agents, and it's almost impossible to get a reasonable mortgage. Crazy.
 

Cameron583

Well-known Member
Though it does give me an excellent business idea - running my own estate agents with ethics and integrity, for the benefit of landlords who get done over by terrible tenants and for tenants who get done over by lousy landlords.
 
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shotokan101

Distinguished Member
Though it does give me an excellent business idea - running my own estate agents with ethics and integrity, for the benefit of landlords who get done over my terrible tenants and for tenants who get done over by lousy landlords.
.....you'd have to come up for another name for the type of business first...... :devil:
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Even earning £50k you’ll struggle to buy anything other than a 1 or maybe 2 bedroom flat in the South East.
 

Cameron583

Well-known Member
Even earning £50k you’ll struggle to buy anything other than a 1 or maybe 2 bedroom flat in the South East.
Yeah, I know; a shame, since most of the jobs I've been looking at are based here
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
yep, landlords are only in it for their own gain, remember that... don't expect any favours.. :(
I don't know. Some of the members on here who are landlords sound like they treat their tenants really well (if these member are to be believed, of course :confused::p)
 

noiseboy72

Well-known Member
It's sometimes just being a bit creative with what you do and where you work. I am a senior programme manager and software product owner. My software team is based in London, Birmingham and Bangalore and I work from home. Mine's a typical "city" job, but in a bad week, I might have 2 trips away from home into an office.

I live in Grantham where houses are cheap. A 1 bed flat ready to move into is from £60K (£90K for something reasonably nice) and houses from £160K. Even a large 5 bedroom house with 3 en-suites and a little bit of land is less than £400K, so all quite reasonable.

Jobs wise, plenty to choose from, with software and tech, military and defence, logistics, general services, call centres etc. it's all here.

This is a pattern repeated all over the UK. There's plenty of jobs advertised in the South East because there's a shortage of candidates, but there's very little that cannot be found further afield with some digging. They may pay 10% less, but if your living costs are 20% less, then why worry?

Of course, if you can get a place in the South East, it makes it easier to trade up if you leave for the provinces. The family across the road moved from a 3 bed apartment in Cambridge to a 5 bed, 3 bathroom house for less money.

There's an issue that lots of millenials feel drawn to the bright lights. One of my junior programme managers is looking for a flat within reach of London, yet she could work out of any of our 90 offices in the UK without issue. She just can't live without the shopping and entertainment that London offers!
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
Whilst I don't wish to come across as a socialist or anything like that.
I can't help but feel there is something morally wrong, in general with one person owning multiple homes, and charging others who have no homes a lot of money to live there.

One could, if one was visiting this planet with no knowledge of humans feel this was a very bad thing and something that a good society would never allow.

Having a home to live in, should be seen as a basic fundamental human right
Having a small, yet growing group of people who have been fortunate in live to be able to have multiple homes they don't need themselves so they make money from them, just feels wrong.

I fully understand that's how life is, but still, it feels bad.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
The trouble is is that renting is not valued in our culture and hasn't been since the 80's (I shall not name the culprit).

Valuable housing stock was sold at knock down prices enabling people to make a financial killing, and all in the name of "ownership" and "ambition".

I occasionally scan watch "Homes Under The Hammer" and the greed message is continually perpetuated. Having said that, some people on the programme are driven by a desire to create homes for their fellow human beings from neglected properties that would otherwise just sit empty.

Channel Five run a series of shock horror programmes about disinterested landpeople and terrible tenants, and it's not great if you are in that situation on either side. And don't even get me started on Managing Agents! Thanks to the ludicrousness of Leasehold law, you can own a flat in a building but not own the fabric of the building itself. This means you can still be beholden to paying annual maintenance costs and repairs, which is fine if they are proactive, less so if you are chasing them to do something that is urgently needed.

I live in Brighton and many Londoners live here but still commute back to the city to work. I can't help feeling that this will become (if it isn't already) a standard model for living and working in our big cities. Affordable rents should be statutory in my opinion, based on your income and not on property values nor the wider rental market. There also seems to be some dodgy behaviour going on with Airbnb, with people not even bothering to let their properties long term anymore, but make more money from a continuous series of short holiday lets instead.

Every government claims it cares about homelessness/people on waiting lists/people in temporary accommodation, but they still adhere to and promote the ownership agenda regardless. I agree with Tempest that this outlook needs reframing and housing seen as essential as food, clothing and utilities. It won't happen, though, alas.
 
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shoestring25

Well-known Member
Whilst I don't wish to come across as a socialist or anything like that.
I can't help but feel there is something morally wrong, in general with one person owning multiple homes, and charging others who have no homes a lot of money to live there.

One could, if one was visiting this planet with no knowledge of humans feel this was a very bad thing and something that a good society would never allow.

Having a home to live in, should be seen as a basic fundamental human right
Having a small, yet growing group of people who have been fortunate in live to be able to have multiple homes they don't need themselves so they make money from them, just feels wrong.

I fully understand that's how life is, but still, it feels bad.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer its worse than ever now
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
Whilst I don't wish to come across as a socialist or anything like that.
I can't help but feel there is something morally wrong, in general with one person owning multiple homes, and charging others who have no homes a lot of money to live there.

One could, if one was visiting this planet with no knowledge of humans feel this was a very bad thing and something that a good society would never allow.

Having a home to live in, should be seen as a basic fundamental human right
Having a small, yet growing group of people who have been fortunate in live to be able to have multiple homes they don't need themselves so they make money from them, just feels wrong.

I fully understand that's how life is, but still, it feels bad.
I have said before most of my tenants will never own their own home and neither have the inclination or desire to. I am providing them a service. I treat them well by carrying out work as quick as I can, and keeping the rents reasonable. I won’t be a millionaire but I don’t do too bad and my tenants stay for long rents. I have one tenant who has expressed a desire to buy his flat and shop off me and I am happy to help him do so and I will buy another.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer its worse than ever now
A fellow member went all Rafa Benitez on me when I suggested as much and said it was a FACT that the lowest earners had seen the largest income increase. He may have even used the magic words, "in real terms", too.

He didn't bother to address the growth in food banks, homelessness, personal debt and child poverty though, didn't fit his FACT agenda. Governments tend to promote that line of thinking too.
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
A fellow member went all Rafa Benitez on me when I suggested as much and said it was a FACT that the lowest earners had seen the largest income increase. He may have even used the magic words, "in real terms", too.

He didn't bother to address the growth in food banks, homelessness, personal debt and child poverty though, didn't fit his FACT agenda. Governments tend to promote that line of thinking too.
Not wanting to be controversial but it is why I voted leave. I see the poverty not just as a landlord but when I was a firefighter and the gap was getting bigger. I am not saying it was the EU’s fault I just voted for change because the then system wasn’t working.
 

philbot

Well-known Member
A massive government program of council house building is required. This would end homelessness, remove the possibility on unscrupulous landlords, and open up the possibility of working in whatever part of the country you want.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
Not wanting to be controversial but it is why I voted leave. I see the poverty not just as a landlord but when I was a firefighter and the gap was getting bigger. I am not saying it was the EU’s fault I just voted for change because the then system wasn’t working.
Which is fair enough.

I voted Remain as I feel the EU curb the worst excesses of incumbent governments, but I guess that may all change now. I agree that the wealth divide has gotten wider, we can only hope that leaving will improve the lives of many of our fellow citizens as that is what they voted for.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
A massive government program of council house building is required. This would end homelessness, remove the possibility on unscrupulous landlords, and open up the possibility of working in whatever part of the country you want.
Agree, but it won't happen.

This is a small country with lots of protected greenbelt land, so that's not a possibility. Giving local councils more power to take back neglected properties and/or remove bad landpeople would be good, but it still won't address the mindset that ownership is everything and that you are a second class citizen if you rent.

It's the same with public transport: owning and using a car gives you value and status, using a bus or train makes you a pleb, so we continue to build roads at great cost which could be more valuably invested in an integrated travel network instead.
 

philbot

Well-known Member
You could change their mindsets once you point out the benefits of a council house.

Build decent estates like they do abroad, with cinemas, indoor swimming pools, bowling alleys, playgrounds and shops. Moving job? Move house as well to be closer to work. Rent for half the cost of a mortgage. Staring a family? ask for a bigger house. Kids left home? downsize.
 

krish

Distinguished Member
Though it does give me an excellent business idea - running my own estate agents with ethics and integrity, for the benefit of landlords who get done over by terrible tenants and for tenants who get done over by lousy landlords.
Are you going to name it Porcine Aviation?

Not sure of your personal/family living situation, but before I bought my house I rented in shared houses with fellow professionals. Functional rather than flash. I never thought of a rented property as my home - It was just a roof over my head and I was paying someone else's mortgage. Rent was absolutely DEAD money to me and I would always keep it to a minimum, certainly not spending money on anything I couldn't take with me.

So when I read you paid £6,600 upfront, that just horrified me, both the advance payment and the 1K/month (EDIT ... correction: £1,100/month) rent for one person if indeed that was the case - even with inflation my rent from years ago would still be (EDIT ... less than) half that in London.

Managed to save a 100K+ deposit with that mindset, and my NW London 3 bed house is nearly paid off almost 14 years later.
 
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shoestring25

Well-known Member
not picking sides on this question just wondering What are the benefits for government and a local government for building council houses ?

the benefits for a council tenant are obvious so im interested in the other side of things
 

Wahreo

Distinguished Member
Renting should never be more than a mortgage on a property. The government should’ve set limits long ago.
 

The Dreamer

Well-known Member
I’m with @krish , though we don’t know the OPs exact circumstances - but when I first started working, for the first few years, I lived in shared houses (in fact the very first year was spent in a YWCA!) - about £40pw for a room (1980s-90s). It was actually a great way to make a few friends, and we all used to enjoy popping down the pub en-masse (The Lonsdale in Jesmond if you were wondering).

Far better than renting somewhere on your Tod, wasting a small fortune. IMO
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Yeah, i lived in some proper dives whilst young :laugh:

Flat and house shares until i was about 24. Sometimes great fun, sometimes frustrating. But whilst i was paying £40 / week rent meant i could spend more on beer, oops, i mean a house deposit. :D
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
And don't get me started about people living in some quiet village, where some with BIG money in London decide to buy a nice cottage as a second home, whilst youngsters born in that area can't afford to buy a home to live it, as there are less to buy, plus due to this the prices are sky high at the same time.
Perhaps there should be a law that says they can only buy spare housing that is excess to what's needed by those in an area ;)
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
A massive government program of council house building is required. This would end homelessness, remove the possibility on unscrupulous landlords, and open up the possibility of working in whatever part of the country you want.
I am a director of a community land trust and we have just put in for funding for “affordable” housing on a rough patch of land in the middle of my small town. I have ideas on the tenure but not sure if the district council would agree. Basically we would retain ownership and charge market rent but all profit would be paid back as a lump sum so long as they use it as a deposit on a home in the area.
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
not picking sides on this question just wondering What are the benefits for government and a local government for building council houses ?

the benefits for a council tenant are obvious so im interested in the other side of things
Even charging a little below market rates a profit can be made just by economies of scale and can be invested into other services. Just needs managing properly. Maggie selling off the council housing stock was just one of her bad decisions.
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
not picking sides on this question just wondering What are the benefits for government and a local government for building council houses ?

the benefits for a council tenant are obvious so im interested in the other side of things
When people become homeless & become the responsibility of the council to provide housing, they probably don’t have any spare council housing to put them, & they end up putting people into temporary accommodation (B&B/hotels) & it is much, much more expensive than if they could be put in a council house.

That’s not even covering the social aspect of the homelessness.
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
It's a shame that despite what many/most people feel should happen, which is house prices come way down, and I mean WAY DOWN.
The harsh reality is almost no home owner actually wants that to happen, they only want the value of their home to go up.
It's a very sad state of affairs where a baby is born, and it's basically told in it's childhood it needs to study hard at school, to get a job so they can work all their life, in the hope that by the time they are almost old enough to retire they may have finished paying off the place they live in.

Really this system is not a good one, If we were all not in this system I'm sure we'd never think this was the right way for humans to be.
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
It's a shame that despite what many/most people feel should happen, which is house prices come way down, and I mean WAY DOWN.
The harsh reality is almost no home owner actually wants that to happen, they only want the value of their home to go up.
It's a very sad state of affairs where a baby is born, and it's basically told in it's childhood it needs to study hard at school, to get a job so they can work all their life, in the hope that by the time they are almost old enough to retire they may have finished paying off the place they live in.

Really this system is not a good one, If we were all not in this system I'm sure we'd never think this was the right way for humans to be.
Sometimes you have to work hard in life to get what you want. I got ok GCSEs, poor A levels, but still scraped onto a university course. Hated university and left halfway through a 4 year course. I started work at the bottom and had to work my way to a decent wage.

People need to have some drive.
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
Sometimes you have to work hard in life to get what you want. I got ok GCSEs, poor A levels, but still scraped onto a university course. Hated university and left halfway through a 4 year course. I started work at the bottom and had to work my way to a decent wage.

People need to have some drive.
Oh indeed, I'm not saying humans should not have an incentive.
There are many nice/luxury things we don't actually need as such, however I'm sure the argument could be made, in a society different to ours that a private place that everyone has which they can call a home to literally exist and function in, could in a different society simply be regarded as a fundamental right as we approach the year 2020.
Some nationwide social housing perhaps where you are simply entitled to a home by default as a basic need.
You would still need to work to pay bills, and own goods of course, and if you wanted could save money if you are fortunate to have it, to move to a better home?

I can't say how this would work, but I can imagine a different world where this is the case.
Part of me finds it sad that we have many, dare I say most people who live most of their lives needed to do work which is something they don't wish to do, to pay to live, as opposed to doing what they'd like to do with their 1 short life on this planet.

Perhaps one day we can move on, when robots are doing all this for us :)
 

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